I HATE WHEN RSC's SWAP PARTS WITHOUT PERMISSION! To me it's a BIG Issue!

[Ckci]

There is a thread I just read today about a guy who sent in his explorer I for some work and the T-Rex hand (short minute hand) was swapped out without his consent. Rolex service people doing this without the owners written consent makes it impossible for me to feel good about sending them any watch of mine. This is especially true when it comes to all original Vintage Rolex watches! Here is my response on that thread. As a TRF family I think we have they ability to get this very dangerous practice changed. I'd like to explore the idea of producing an open letter that members could sign onto and that could be sent to Rolex Inc, the RSC's and to the AD's. As owners of fine Rolex watches we all love we have the right to have them serviced with confidence that we will get them back without key parts of their heritage being removed! I'm sure plenty of people on the site don't care about this as an issue but I'm also sure there are many here who see these as collectable in there original condition and don't want any parts removed without their permission.

Here's a copy of my other post:
" I absolutely HATE when Rolex feels like they can do whatever the H*LL they want with a watch! To me that is FELONY when they start removing and confiscating original parts off of watches. These original parts have lots of value when it comes to older watches. These people at RSC's know this and I'd be shocked it they aren't taking these home and selling them on the black market for a substantial profit. Anyone who is into Vintage knows how drastically that can impact the value of a watch. Service dials etc are complete BS if the change wasn't requested. I will never trust one of my vintage watches to them. If they ask and the person opts in for a swap like this that is one thing but otherwise it makes me despise the RSC's. Anyone who gets into collecting Vintage Rolex watches I'm sure feels the same!"

Does anyone agree?

Sincerely,
Russell

[japenney]

Many vingage pieces go unserviced for this very reason.

[jon_jon]

I have heard about this issue as well. I know it is one of the reasons why many forum members use Rolex certified independent watchmakers to service their older watches.

[josephvman]

Um...no.

This has been policy for decades at RSC's, and if you're servicing a watch that this might be an issue with (vintage, collectible, etc.) you would know this. If you don't want a dial/hands changed at an RSC, it's a simple matter of discussing what they will and won't do before they service your piece. If the piece isn't important enough to you to have a "meeting of the minds" beforehand, then this is where you end up, and it's not their fault, it's yours.

There are plenty of qualified people who will work on your watch with the intention of doing minimally-invasive service or repairs, and all it takes is a simple search right here on TRF. There are literally hundreds of threads on the topic.

[Thegr8one]

When I serviced my 1977 1680 with RSC Toronto, I simply spoke with them on the phone and wrote on the form what I wanted them to do, but more importantly, what I didn't want them to do and they followed the instructions to the letter. I agree with Josephvman, it just needs to be communicated clearly and they should be good. Or atleast tell you otherwise so you can make a decision.

[beer]

agree i saw someone send a patinad watch in and the hands and lume were all replaced, i know the intentions were good but it destroyed the value of the vintage piece

[Memphis]

you know what i hate... grown men using capital letters. it's the same as yelling and you wouldn't do it in a face to face conversation.

and worse... you're doing it off of "hear-say". you've clearly never dealt personally with this scenario.

[Rolex addict]

You not only need to communicate it clearly, but put it in writing.

[FTX I]

Great thread Russell.

[RichM]

I believe the RSC will continue with business as usual and would have no problem telling you to take your business elsewhere. That's just the way they are. At least in the NYC RSC.

Every watch that I've sent through there, I've always been informed of what work would be done before the work begins. I also had to give them my OK. None of these have been vintage. I also believe the RSC is not in the business of restoring vintage watches but rather to make them into like new condition.

If I had a vintage watch that required special attention, I'd go to the private sector.

Keep in mind I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's how it is.

[ppbskis]

This happened to me back in the day before the internet and Forums. My 1988 11600 was sent in to Rolex for service in say 1992 or 1993.
The original dial with the large Tritium lume was replaced with the newfangled white gold surround indicators, boy was I happy!
Fast forward to 2012 or so when I joined this forum and the sickness in my stomach manifested itself. From what I have learned in this community my original face is worth more than my watch currently is.
I hate being reminded but I guess the more we let people know, the more original pieces may survive.
So from now on don't " Keep it real", keep it "original"!

[Boaters]

Good idea put it in writing then there is no miscommunication

[Qinhan]

For me, I've heard too many horror stories about RSC doing exactly this that I've never used them and have no plan on doing so in future. Having found a passionate and diligent independent, I'm happy to use his services and feel comfortable that he's not going to be doing anything that I don't want to one of my precious watches.

[77T]

Originally Posted by ppbskis

This happened to me back in the day before the internet and Forums. My 1988 11600 was sent in to Rolex for service in say 1992 or 1993.
The original dial with the large Tritium lume was replaced with the newfangled white gold surround indicators, boy was I happy!
Fast forward to 2012 or so when I joined this forum and the sickness in my stomach manifested itself. From what I have learned in this community my original face is worth more than my watch currently is.
I hate being reminded but I guess the more we let people know, the more original pieces may survive.
So from now on don't " Keep it real", keep it "original"!

They did that free? Otherwise wouldn't you have been asked to authorize the charges?

[ppbskis]

In 1992 there were no cell phones etc. so most likely it went in for service and Rolex deemed my current dial was not worthy and replaced it. Most likely I would have cheerfully said wow, you can make it look just like todays model. Think if you had a car go to the dealer for service and they offered to freshen up and modernize it free or at little cost, most would say yes and regret later, isn't there an inferior Panerai movement in a piece that Panerai later replaced for offended customers? From what I know those inferior movements are now prized pieces.
Hindsight is 20/20

[Verdi]

Rolex should have a standard option of doing a service without any replacement of parts other than on the movement.

[sco]

I get the frustration, but I would like the option to "upgrade" while it is in for a service as well.

[kilyung]

I understand the frustration but, in the absence of clear and detailed instructions, RSC reserves the right to restore the watch to proper operating specifications using parts available to them. If we don't want something done then it's incumbent on us to communicate that. Of course misunderstandings and human error will always happen. This is why I recommend independents for vintage or important time pieces. I'd only send in a watch to RSC that I wouldn't mind seeing brought back to original condition.

[Runnin' Rebel]

Is there a Doctor around ? Looks like a couple forum members are ready to have a stroke today over this.

[ref1655]

Originally Posted by Verdi

Rolex should have a standard option of doing a service without any replacement of parts other than on the movement.

+1...a standard servicing for current models (with parts replacement at their discretion) & a vintage servicing whereby nothing cosmetic is changed/altered without previous consent from the owner.

[Anthon]

Originally Posted by kilyung

I understand the frustration but, in the absence of clear and detailed instructions, RSC reserves the right to restore the watch to proper operating specifications using parts available to them. If we don't want something done then it's incumbent on us to communicate that. Of course misunderstandings and human error will always happen. This is why I recommend independents for vintage or important time pieces. I'd only send in a watch to RSC that I wouldn't mind seeing brought back to original condition.

What right do they have? The watch is mine and mine alone. I'm not wearing it under license. If they want to swap out perfectly functioning parts for 'the latest model', they better ask first.

The new hands on an older Explorer change the appearance of the watch dramatically. All the more reason to specifically ask for permission before changing these parts.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Anthon

What right do they have? The watch is mine and mine alone. I'm not wearing it under license. If they want to swap out perfectly functioning parts for 'the latest model', they better ask first.

The new hands on an older Explorer change the appearance of the watch dramatically. All the more reason to specifically ask for permission before changing these parts.

They have the right that practically all monopolies have. If you want a dial swap and they agree you pay for the new dial and they will almost certainly keep your old dial. Ain't just Rolex, big business/money rules the world as has become increasingly clear to all since the credit crunch, don't know why we really bother with pantomime politicians any more other than for entertainment.

[wuyeah]

Feel like banks taking money here and there without telling you what's going until you question them. It's like your money is actually their money.

[Alexwwjd]

Drinking a Chamomile/Lavender tea right now..... Need to relax after reading this thread


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[R1@160@alltimes]

Reputable watchmakers will never do such a thing. That's why I only deal with Vanessa at JOT

[masyv6]

Don't bother risking it. Too many horror stories of watches being destroyed by the RSC to risk it.

[KenNethcole]

Originally Posted by R1@160@alltimes

Reputable watchmakers will never do such a thing. That's why I only deal with Vanessa at JOT

Same here JOT for me as well. When I brought in my older watch they wrote down on the repair form to not change anything even without me having to tell them. If you feel rsc is not doing what you want just take your business to an independent.

[peterskinner]

Is there a sense of cross-purpose here? Rolex undertake to service and bring a watch up to the best possible condition. That's their stated aim, to service the watch properly so it's in the best condition.
But some vintage guys have a quite different aim...to maximise value; that can mean, for instance, that Submariners are left without meaningful water resistance in the name of 'authenticity.'. Two quite different sets of values. One is the best quality functioning watch, the other something frozen in time and seen as an 'investment,'
It's simply not the task or aim of Rolex to go into the vintage watch business. So, if people value original parts over actual operational quality, that's fine...just use a specialist set-up to meet your requirements.
But don't blame Rolex for wanting to bring their watches up to the best operational standard. That's what they do. The obsessive behaviour of collectors is a quite different world. Never the two shall meet!

[Eric Chan]

Originally Posted by josephvman

Um...no.

This has been policy for decades at RSC's, and if you're servicing a watch that this might be an issue with (vintage, collectible, etc.) you would know this. If you don't want a dial/hands changed at an RSC, it's a simple matter of discussing what they will and won't do before they service your piece. If the piece isn't important enough to you to have a "meeting of the minds" beforehand, then this is where you end up, and it's not their fault, it's yours.

There are plenty of qualified people who will work on your watch with the intention of doing minimally-invasive service or repairs, and all it takes is a simple search right here on TRF. There are literally hundreds of threads on the topic.

This just about sums it up.

[ZeKe]

Good thread.
I'd sign that petition.

It would be nice if Rolex (at least) gave back our original parts to do with as we please.