The art of negotiating with your AD

[wrightbrain]

Originally Posted by SubKing

Also, having an out of state address to ship the watch to can save you on the tax as well.

That's one I hadn't thought of. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[Mr. K]

Originally Posted by SubKing

Normally on a steel sub hulk or blk dial, I can get 25% off. but that is only because I have established a relationship with the AD and buy actively. So it's not impossible, just depends on some of the factors stated above..

This and no tax is pretty sweet, especially on a SS submariner.

For the rest of your post. .... Thanks for sharing, really solid advice.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by Mr. K

This and no tax is pretty sweet, especially on a SS submariner.

For the rest of your post. .... Thanks for sharing, really solid advice.

My pleasure.

The thing with my 25% on a SS sub is, they know at that price, I can turn around and sell the watch to make money on it, but I would never do that. Which is why most dealers would never go that much on discount.. It's a trust factor we have. They know I am not a dealer and the watch is for myself to enjoy. Not losing money on a watch by making a smart purchase is a great feeling. Because the discount being given offsets the depreciation of the timepiece once its used. The AD knows they are going to make it up on the larger pieces I purchase from them in the future. The Ad's I deal with do a great job of keeping me happy. That's what keeps me coming back.

There are some AD's that won't take care of you no matter how many watches I buy from them. Those are the ones I stay away from.

But if you buy 1 rolex a year and its a stainless sport model rolex, then be prepared to get 10% off of your purchase if you're lucky.

Shipping the watch out of state is completely legal to avoid tax.
Obviously there is more to it than that but that is between you and the dealer.

[adamlea]

Great thread - lots of great tips and things to consider. So, thanks to everyone.

This would be a good sticky.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by SubKing

My pleasure.

The thing with my 25% on a SS sub is, they know at that price, I can turn around and sell the watch to make money on it, but I would never do that. Which is why most dealers would never go that much on discount.. It's a trust factor we have. They know I am not a dealer and the watch is for myself to enjoy. Not losing money on a watch by making a smart purchase is a great feeling. Because the discount being given offsets the depreciation of the timepiece once its used. The AD knows they are going to make it up on the larger pieces I purchase from them in the future. The Ad's I deal with do a great job of keeping me happy. That's what keeps me coming back.

There are some AD's that won't take care of you no matter how many watches I buy from them. Those are the ones I stay away from.

But if you buy 1 rolex a year and its a stainless sport model rolex, then be prepared to get 10% off of your purchase if you're lucky.

Shipping the watch out of state is completely legal to avoid tax.
Obviously there is more to it than that but that is between you and the dealer.

If I'm not mistaken that's between the buyer and the irs. The buyer is obligated to report such purchases, not the AD.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by SubKing

I have been buying rolex watches from different AD's all over the country for 15 years now and average about 4 new rolex pieces a year. I have learned some really valuable lessons along the way...

First off, The Ad's that act snooty, I know to stay away from. Just by walking in, I can tell what experience I am going to have. I like to make power plays and create relationships with my AD's..

Knowing people get you very far. I usually know the store owner personally before I walk in, or I am introduced to the owner by a close friend. I work directly with the people in charge, That really helps with discount. The sales people want to make a large commission, where management and owners want to move product..

There are several factors that have to do with what kind of discount you are given. One of the main factors IMO is how many pieces a year can they expect you to buy from them? If the answer is 3 to 4 pieces consistently, then the Ad will want to keep you happy.

Some have said if you wear a patek, that helps.. I find no truth to that. I don't wear my patek when I go in for a new rolex. I wear a rolex lol. A patek tells them two things, 1. that you know your watches and 2, that you have lots of money that you spend else where on brands they do not have. If they have patek then that's a different story. I tend to only wear brands in the store that the AD carries.


Now I want to clear the air about Ad's saying they cannot discount rolex.. It's not that they can't, its that they are scared to. So many AD's have had rolex pulled from them in the past few years. Rolex has downsized their points of sales by 20% across the board. By law, rolex cannot tell an AD what they have to discount their watches for.. They can only "suggest" hence the term, "suggested retail price". If you tick rolex off and they don't like your discounting practices, then they will pull the line from you. Rolex's entire point of not wanting AD's to discount is because rolex feels it de-values the brand. Rolex wants to kill the gray market as well, they feel that also devalues the brand.

The model rolex you are shopping has everything to do with how big or how little your discount will be. Keep in mind the profit margins on an all steel sub retailed for 8550 is a lot less than a an all gold model retailed at 38k... So expect a smaller discount on the less expensive models..

Cash is king. It really is. Paying with Cash can save you a lot on your purchase. I have dealt with some tough shops in my time, but once you set green cash down infront of them, they really don't want you to walk out. They will also save on the CC fees by you paying cash. Also, having an out of state address to ship the watch to can save you on the tax as well.

Normally on a steel sub hulk or blk dial, I can get 25% off. but that is only because I have established a relationship with the AD and buy actively. So it's not impossible, just depends on some of the factors stated above. always be classy, your approach is everything, don't push them to go beyond a discount they are not comfortable with, Keep in mind, Rolex only allocates a certain amount of watches to these AD's per year, so they don't want to give it away cheap if they won't get many. There is always someone else willing to pay more than you are.

Just for shits and giggles I have to disagree. As you say, wearing a Patek tells them that you know watches and you tend to spend a lot of money on them. You have conveyed disposable income and a passion for watches. Again I'm only basing this on my experience, which is typically in large ADs that sell multiple brands. In my experience, wearing my pateks gets me MUCH better service than wearing my rolex....unless I'm shopping for cars then the rolex is king.

As far as paying cash...I also disagree. Who has 10k in cash on them besides drug dealers? You practically have to call the bank in advance to draw cash in that amount. I've never been to an AD that asked if I could do cash, if anything bank wire is the way to go. Cash in that amount is a burden.

[Blue Trident]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Step one is always to know you want the product. Not the brand, this exact ref#.

Once you have decided on the exact watch you want, you have to determine the market value. Market value isn't the online value, or trusted seller value, it's the common price in your locality. (As an example, I can get a BLNR any day of the week in the middle east for around 8300 USD, whereas an Australian may be paying above MSRP). Go to several AD's who have your chosen watch and do a preliminary negotiation. Be polite, talk the talk, and try to nudge them down to their "best price".

Once you know the ball park best price for your locality, work the AD's against each other. You can usually get another couple percent by saying Joey Bagadonuts down the road will give it to you for $XX.

Don't be unrealistic in the final stages of the negotiation - Don't expect a certain percent discount because someone online said you should get it. The AD knows about what Joey Bagadonuts can offer you. You know what the local market price is. You're trying to whittle off a few bucks to get to the best and final offer.

Be prepared to walk out the door if the AD won't budge or you think there may be more room to negotiate. Go to Joey Bagadonuts and work the same negotiation with him. Then go to the other AD's. A cycle or two will get you the best price in your locality.

Enjoy the process! If you go into it as a painful chore, you'll likely not do well. Be patient, don't let the AD use your eagerness against you.

Well stated. Again, be in informed. Research the exact brand and model, including all descriptive reference numbers. In addition, be cognizant of any new and recent developments to the specific model you may have decided upon and desire. Verily, I can assure you that you would be quite surprised to discover how many sales associates are, indeed, very poorly informed regarding the products that they are supposedly trained to sell at the counter. More often than not, it is the prudent and diligent consumer whom is far more aware and better informed.

And, as stated above: Utilizing professional and courteous diplomacy, do position AD's competitively against the other. This should consistently be a prime directive point for strategy. Period. Essentially speaking, you will always find one AD, or respected wholesaler, whom would be willing to offer you a lower price than another. Do remember that ALL vendors (especially brick and mortar retail stores) realize that the market is quite competitive, and even more so now because of the existence of reputable and highly recognized online, and wholesale vendors. Therefore, be persistent. And, make every effort to never pay MSRP.

[KingRichard]

There's really only one way to negotiate with your AD and that's if you pay cash. Walk in to the dealer, well dressed and looking professional, kindly ask to speak to the manager. Tell the manager that you are looking to purchase a piece today and you know exactly which model you want (no need to browse or try on different models) and that you are willing to pay cash. Then tell them what piece you would like to buy and tell him what you would like to pay. For example: "I would like to buy a Rolex submariner ref 116610LN and I would like to be out the door for X dollars in cash." See what they say and show them your cash, authenticating your sincerity. Tell them that you are aware of the many discounts on the grey market and that the factory warranty is not worth the full retail price to you, but you are willing to patronize your local dealer. Be polite and if they cannot meet your offer, you leave. Go to another AD and do the same thing. If none of the ADs in your area will take your money then this is probably a sign that you need to up your offer, but feel free to try two or three times just don't harass them and always be polite.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by GB-man

As far as paying cash...I also disagree. Who has 10k in cash on them besides drug dealers? You practically have to call the bank in advance to draw cash in that amount. I've never been to an AD that asked if I could do cash, if anything bank wire is the way to go. Cash in that amount is a burden.

Clearly not just drug dealers, but your point is valid. If I'm not mistaken, a single payment of $10k or more for a single item will require the business to complete and file special forms with the IRS. I think it's designed to prevent money laundering and creates more work for the AD.

Plus, as uncomfortable as I'd be walking in with 10k cash on me, imagine walking out after putting that wad of cash on the counter only to have the AD still refuse to budge on a discount. I would hope that I parked close to the front door...

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by GB-man

If I'm not mistaken that's between the buyer and the irs. The buyer is obligated to report such purchases, not the AD.

The tax is still owed regardless. Sales tax on in-state purchases are collected by the merchant --- tax on out of state purchases are the buyer's responsibility to report.

Whether one chooses to comply with the law is another story, but it's a legal requirement in the U.S.

[superdog]

I'm very simple in my negotiation.

I ask the seller to show me that they value my business. And then I tell them I won't ask for anything more off. And I don't. If they give me a discount that appears to me that they value my business, I buy it. If they don't, I thank them and I leave.

I like to keep things simple.

[Portland]

Originally Posted by KingRichard

There's really only one way to negotiate with your AD and that's if you pay cash. Walk in to the dealer, well dressed and looking professional, kindly ask to speak to the manager. Tell the manager that you are looking to purchase a piece today and you know exactly which model you want (no need to browse or try on different models) and that you are willing to pay cash. Then tell them what piece you would like to buy and tell him what you would like to pay. For example: "I would like to buy a Rolex submariner ref 116610LN and I would like to be out the door for X dollars in cash." See what they say and show them your cash, authenticating your sincerity. Tell them that you are aware of the many discounts on the grey market and that the factory warranty is not worth the full retail price to you, but you are willing to patronize your local dealer. Be polite and if they cannot meet your offer, you leave. Go to another AD and do the same thing. If none of the ADs in your area will take your money then this is probably a sign that you need to up your offer, but feel free to try two or three times just don't harass them and always be polite.

I really like this method. The only thing I might add is to leave the manager with your business card and tell them you will be making a purchase in the very near future from someone, whoever that might be, that meets your price point. I've had it happen on a couple of occasions that I receive a call from the manager or sales rep my cell phone before I can even pull out of the parking lot. Sometimes it's a game of "who blinks first" and if that's the AD, it's a good idea for them to have your contact info so that they have a way of getting a hold of you.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Tony64

The tax is still owed regardless. Sales tax on in-state purchases are collected by the merchant --- tax on out of state purchases are the buyer's responsibility to report.

Whether one chooses to comply with the law is another story, but it's a legal requirement in the U.S.

Yeah I was trying to explain that to the other guy

[lahainabry]

Originally Posted by jjnd08

That's surprising. I've been offered discounts without even trying at ADs in Dallas. When I bought my AP, I got a really solid discount - competitive with what you see from our trusted sellers.

I bought my TT Sub in Dallas, I was offered a discount without asking.

[T. Ferguson]

Originally Posted by GB-man

If I'm not mistaken that's between the buyer and the irs. The buyer is obligated to report such purchases, not the AD.

Correct, only the tax obligation isn't with the IRS. It's your state of residence, not the federal government. But you're supposed to report it on your state return and pay the sales tax. In California anyway.

[SemperFi]

I bought a Nomos Glashutte a few weeks ago from a jewelry store in California based on a recommendation from a forum member. I was prepared to ask for a 15% discount until the owner offered 20%. Needless to say I didn't hesitate to strike a deal. Now I'm wondering if I could have gotten 25% off.

[Portland]

Originally Posted by SemperFi

I bought a Nomos Glashutte a few weeks ago from a jewelry store in California based on a recommendation from a forum member. I was prepared to ask for a 15% discount until the owner offered 20%. Needless to say I didn't hesitate to strike a deal. Now I'm wondering if I could have gotten 25% off.

Nice! I just traded my Nomos Orion 38. Which model did you go with?

[Andad]

Originally Posted by KingRichard

There's really only one way to negotiate with your AD and that's if you pay cash. Walk in to the dealer, well dressed and looking professional, kindly ask to speak to the manager. Tell the manager that you are looking to purchase a piece today and you know exactly which model you want (no need to browse or try on different models) and that you are willing to pay cash. Then tell them what piece you would like to buy and tell him what you would like to pay. For example: "I would like to buy a Rolex submariner ref 116610LN and I would like to be out the door for X dollars in cash." See what they say and show them your cash, authenticating your sincerity. Tell them that you are aware of the many discounts on the grey market and that the factory warranty is not worth the full retail price to you, but you are willing to patronize your local dealer. Be polite and if they cannot meet your offer, you leave. Go to another AD and do the same thing. If none of the ADs in your area will take your money then this is probably a sign that you need to up your offer, but feel free to try two or three times just don't harass them and always be polite.

An AD Dutch auction sound like fun.

We call these buyers 'tire kickers' in Oz.

[SemperFi]

Originally Posted by Portland

Nice! I just traded my Nomos Orion 38. Which model did you go with?

I went with the Club Datum 37.5mm. I really didn't want the date but the Club 36 just seemed too small. Here's a wrist shot.

[Portland]

Originally Posted by SemperFi

I went with the Club Datum 37.5mm. I really didn't want the date but the Club 36 just seemed too small. Here's a wrist shot.

Nice choice! The date looks better on your model than on some other models. My Nomos was the no-date version of the Orion 38. It was a very cool watch. You get a lot of bang for buck with the lower end Nomos. Not so much with their premium line. The only reason I have it up was to help fund my Datejust.

[SemperFi]

Originally Posted by Portland

Nice choice! The date looks better on your model than on some other models. My Nomos was the no-date version of the Orion 38. It was a very cool watch. You get a lot of bang for buck with the lower end Nomos. Not so much with their premium line. The only reason I have it up was to help fund my Datejust.

That's a beautiful dress watch. It must have been hard to let it go but I understand why you did.

[RHIII]

Build rapport -- and yout won't ever have to ask...

Just my .02

[superdog]

Agree