If only Panerai made this..............

[Lol-x]

Recent creations from Panerai have been quite expensive especially when they use their in-house movement.

Now the PAM127 is clearly a killer watch, just look at the way it has gone up in price over the last 5 years.

What I want from Panerai is:
(a) Same case as the PAM127 (that slim profile 47mm case is a winner) maybe reduce it a couple of mm to get it more widely acceptable even titanium would be awesome or PVD or why not all the above as options;
(b) an in-house automatic movement, nothing too fancy just 'in da house' and not an ETA or other such externally sourced movement;
(c) a date feature at 4:30 on the dial without a cyclops (i.e. like a SD) but I'm not sure how that could be done with a sandwich dial, anyway, surely something could be worked out. Otherwise the dial should be the same as the PAM127.
(d) a price of not more than $10,000, Ideally $8,888- to attract the asian market.

And there you have it, instant success. Not entry level, not tourbillon level just an incredibly cool, practical and affordable timepiece.

I will not buy another Panerai until they release something like the above.

[leopardprey]

Add a center seconds sweep hand and you would have a real winner!

[Trurolexer]

That's what I want...

[argee1977]

I put my list together, and found that Panerai already make it

Then i saw the price

[mfer]

Yeah, I have thought about this myself a lot and have asked myself...

Why don't watch companies make watches they know their customer's want????

If Rolex wanted to sell more Sub's.
--put some red on the dial, make it maxi and matte
--charge $500 more for this and you would sell, sell, sell
IMHHHO this wouldn't detract from the vintage market as it still uses all the modern parts, case, etc.
(btw HHH=honestly humbly humble)

Look at the Pam 249 for example. Thing sold like MAD!!!!! I bet they are going to do the same thing with the EGIZIANO (2/56) or the 2533 model some day as well...
link to EGIZIANO
link to 2533 pic on left

With the re-release of the 249, they limited the number greatly to keep the brand "wanted" so to speak.
Rolex "had" the SS Daytona with the recent market issues...

I think your a typical Pam dreamer like the rest of us. I have a couple I want as well.

I want a Fiddy case like you Steve, with all four 12,3,6,9 sandwich style. Would love a 44mm version of it. Date would be ok, if it didn't interrupt the dial. I guess, maybe I want a simplified version of a 233. I don't want my Pam "busy". I like the manual (skinnier), but put the power reserve indicator on the back like the 190. You can keep the gmt hand if you want just make it able to be hidden behind the hour hand. Get rid of all unnecessary writing. Maybe just like the original 127 would be perfect for me.

So, why do watch companies do the things they do? I guess they have their reasons.

[Trurolexer]

I think 232 is nice to me. I more like simple dial.
My FUTURE Panerai...
1. 232
2.190
3.249? (Who knows?)

[Numismatist]

Originally Posted by mfer

Yeah, I have thought about this myself a lot and have asked myself...

Why don't watch companies make watches they know their customer's want????

If Rolex wanted to sell more Sub's.
--put some red on the dial, make it maxi and matte
--charge $500 more for this and you would sell, sell, sell
IMHHHO this wouldn't detract from the vintage market as it still uses all the modern parts, case, etc.
(btw HHH=honestly humbly humble)

Look at the Pam 249 for example. Thing sold like MAD!!!!! I bet they are going to do the same thing with the EGIZIANO (2/56) or the 2533 model some day as well...
link to EGIZIANO
link to 2533 pic on left

With the re-release of the 249, they limited the number greatly to keep the brand "wanted" so to speak.
Rolex "had" the SS Daytona with the recent market issues...

I think your a typical Pam dreamer like the rest of us. I have a couple I want as well.

I want a Fiddy case like you Steve, with all four 12,3,6,9 sandwich style. Would love a 44mm version of it. Date would be ok, if it didn't interrupt the dial. I guess, maybe I want a simplified version of a 233. I don't want my Pam "busy". I like the manual (skinnier), but put the power reserve indicator on the back like the 190. You can keep the gmt hand if you want just make it able to be hidden behind the hour hand. Get rid of all unnecessary writing. Maybe just like the original 127 would be perfect for me.

So, why do watch companies do the things they do? I guess they have their reasons.

They WANT it to be difficult, that keeps up the mystique and exclusivity which is ultimately what we seek.

[mfer]

Originally Posted by Numismatist

They WANT it to be difficult, that keeps up the mystique and exclusivity which is ultimately what we seek.

Agreed, but there needs to be some kind of balance. The whole diminishing returns idea. Maybe they have it, maybe they don't. Basically, if there are thousands of people who want them....

[leopardprey]

Look at many of the watch companies and who they have working as their designers and you will have your answer. Young artsy types, a lot of women. They need to hire and use for consulting some BTDT types to tell them what is needed and also consult with the collectors to see what they want. RMG did this on one of the other Watch Forums, and made a special watch that Forum Members helped design.

Of course many say that the 127. 217, 249 and 232 were a result of Panerai Collectors stressing what they wanted.

As for Rolex, well they still sell every watch they make. And us serious Rolex collectors/forum members make up probably less than 0.1% of Rolex buyers/wearers.

[argee1977]

I should've added that this is exactly what i was saying on the 'rolex v panerai' thread. In my mind Panerai have been going for a few years and they're not really advancing through their range, i know they have added in-house movements and have put together some very nice watches but these are at the top end, which means they're fighting it out with the likes of Audemars Piguet, Blancpain, Rolex Daytonas, etc which in my mind is a little too high for a brand like Panerai at this moment in time.

The reason i say this is that companies like AP have had their Royal Oak Offshore on the go for decades and it's been well received in that time, the Daytona has been on the go longer and again it's loved, Blancpain have the likes of the Fifty Fathoms which gets top ratings yet Panerai have put their in-house movement watches in that range and i just don't see the history, work or fine tuning for that price, as i said in the other thread with their ETA based watches going for £5000 and more they're running the risk of going towards Hublot rather than Rolex.

What i'd love to see is pretty much what LOL-X says, a Panerai with an in-house movement that's available to the masses of Panerai fans, not just a few, the likes of the 212 or 213 look fantastic but with a basic valjoux movement you really wonder why they're priced so high, those would have been perfect for some style of in-house movement and showing that Panerai were starting to advance into the mid level with their own movements.

The reason i say this is because i wanted to buy another Panerai, but i wanted it with an in-house movement, now i saw two, the 233 and the 270, but at the prices they're sitting at i honestly wouldn't go near either as there is no real details about how good the movement is over time and of course it's still in its infancy, unlike proven movements on the market, which is the reason i'd swing towards those watches with the proven movements.

[TswaneNguni]

203
21

Then real world ....

127
232
140

Those are the ones I admire

[Lol-x]

It seems that Panerai have got this idea that haute horology is going to make them 'a brand'.

O.K. so given the limited production numbers they may be a botique brand, but to look at Panerai in purely those terms is to ignore the significant roots and histroy of the brand.

At the one end you have the ETA movements, at the other end you have the in house complicated movements.

All as I'm saying is that middle ground is where a lot of the collectors want to be which would be well served with the kind of watch I described in my original post.

It's like Panerai are throwing darts all around the board, but just not hitting the bulls-eye

[argee1977]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

It seems that Panerai have got this idea that haute horology is going to make them 'a brand'.

O.K. so given the limited production numbers they may be a botique brand, but to look at Panerai in purely those terms is to ignore the significant roots and histroy of the brand.

At the one end you have the ETA movements, at the other end you have the in house complicated movements.

All as I'm saying is that middle ground is where a lot of the collectors want to be which would be well served with the kind of watch I described in my original post.

It's like Panerai are throwing darts all around the board, but just not hitting the bulls-eye

I'm with you on that one, it's not that i couldn't throw everything together and get something like the 233/270, it's just that i don't want to pay out that much as the price puts it in there with some legendary watches such as the Royal Oak Offshore, Fifty Fathoms, Daytona (even in WG secondhand!) and a fair few others.

Richemont are big enough and have enough brands to actually do something pretty special, they could use the JLC expertise, modifty one of their movements and try to put some of the Panerai movement into it (not literally, but with a bit of work use some of the ideas). This way they don't have to move the in-house movements down the range, but they also give the mid level watches a non eta movement and then they've got their range set up for when Swatch stop selling their movements.

[brainbizz]

Why would Panerai want to make a "watch for the masses?" Rolex already does that better than anyone and Panerai cannot compete on that playing field. They can only produce X 40,000? watches a year which they easily sell and offer little discount. What it appears they are doing is transitioning to making higher end watches with in house movements. Granted it may eventually price out some of their customers but most likely they will still have their entry level watches which may actually be in higher demand if there are less watches at the same price point. Who knows but i for one like what they are doing and am looking forward to buying some new PAMs.

[Lol-x]

Originally Posted by brainbizz

Why would Panerai want to make a "watch for the masses?"

I can't see anyone saying that or intending that be so

[brainbizz]

One of the post stated making a lower end watch with the in house movement for the Panerai masses. I agree with the premise of making of a 127 type watch but would disagree in making it a low to mid range watch. I would like to see Panerai produce more watches that compete with Patek and AP not on the lesser side. I do not want to see them completely evolve away from lower or mid range watches for their loyal fans but I also want the brand to keep some exclusiveness. I personally want to see more high end products. Just my 2 cents.

[TswaneNguni]

Well,if you manufacture around 40000 watches a year and they are always sold out on most models,with very few in the dealers stock,they have to be doing something right.I think Rupert and Richemont are extremely happy with Panerai in their stable,as part of their illustrious lie-up of brands.

I like the fact that they have "affordable" models and "high-end" models.I own both kinds and love them all.

My next watch purchase,if I am fortuanate to be in a position to aquire one when the right one appears,will most definitely be a Panerai.Nothing else stirs my senses as much as Panerai.

Considering my collection of four,I will be buying selectively in the future.

232/127/140 do come to mind !!

Oh how I wasted time with more common brands in the past !!! Should have bought a 127/232 and a 140,when they were available from the dealers,2003-2006 !! The wisdom of hindsight !!

[mfer]

Originally Posted by brainbizz

One of the post stated making a lower end watch with the in house movement for the Panerai masses. I agree with the premise of making of a 127 type watch but would disagree in making it a low to mid range watch. I would like to see Panerai produce more watches that compete with Patek and AP not on the lesser side. I do not want to see them completely evolve away from lower or mid range watches for their loyal fans but I also want the brand to keep some exclusiveness. I personally want to see more high end products. Just my 2 cents.

I think we are saying low complication, not lower end. Less is more.

[brainbizz]

I would agree with less is more and prefer Panerai keeping to the simplistic historical nature of the watches in regards to styling as well.

[mfer]

So Steve... I'm resurrecting this thread. You in for the 312!!!

44mm
In house auto 3 day powersupply
1950 case (without the superdomed 127 chrystal)
date at 3 (not 4:30)
sandwich
Under 10k, actually $6300

[Lol-x]

Wow, when did that watch (PAM312)arrive on the scene?

It looks practically tailor made to what I was looking for.

[mfer]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Wow, when did that watch (PAM312)arrive on the scene?

It looks practically tailor made to what I was looking for.

Uhhh, yesterday! SIHH 09

[Nica64]

Pam 312 very nice and for the price is a must have for Panerai lovers

[rayt]

panerai is really getting hot nowadays especially for the intelligent watch lovers.it is thing of beauty.with just 40000 output a year of panerai watches circulating globally i think panerai is doing it right.Rarity principle applies here.it is first class timepiece.it has its own charm and identity.im truly happy getting a panerai for myself and a new one at that.pam 104 made for me!im kinda picky with watches and panerai surely got my fancy. i love panerai too the way im loving my rolex...