The GMT-Master 16700.....A Forgotten Reference

[WeiLo]

Love this beauty

[Initial_J]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

Initial J - The bezel looks fine. I had a new bezel insert installed by Rolex on my 16710 and the arrow doesn't line up at 12 on mine as well. I have to place it in between clicks to line up. Whatever. There are worse things.

Actually, what I meant was that the arrow has a large gap at the top (lot of blue showing above the arrow). Then the point of the arrow goes off the inside edge of the bezel. I haven't been able to find other examples of this anywhere.

[tmfawzy]

Originally Posted by Initial_J

What do the forum members think of the insert on this piece? The 2's look ok to me, but the arrow at 12 o'clock doesn't seem to properly align with the bezel.

I attach a pix of my 16700, with an arrow pointing to the top of the bezel insert, which is what I think you referring to, am I right?. if it is, it does appear, that the triangle on your bezel is printed a little lower, with the bottom point over the edge of the bezel. Not seen that before.

[Chope Man]

Originally Posted by ibbraithwaite

No mate - 3. As is the case with any GMT with a rotating bezel

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Quite an old message but...

Just a question: how can a 16700 have 3 time zone indications? I do not understand.

The 24h hand of the 16700 is not independent, contrary to a GMT Master II.

So a 16700 can only show 2 different time zones at the same time, by rotating the bezel.

Did I miss something?

[joe100]

16700-two time zones
16710-three time zones

[Tools]

All GMT models only show 2 zones at the same time.

GMT II models have the jump hour hand, but still only show 2 zones, they just do it differently. You can also use the bezel, as you would the Master, but it is only a momentary look at a 3rd zone.

[Chope Man]

So I was right ... (in fact I knew, but someone contradicted me in post #244 although I have owned a 16700 for about 20 years...)

Thank you.

[aba123]

Beautiful reference, thank you for the write up.

[lobsterlee]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

Initial J - The bezel looks fine. I had a new bezel insert installed by Rolex on my 16710 and the arrow doesn't line up at 12 on mine as well. I have to place it in between clicks to line up. Whatever. There are worse things.

Haha, I remember taking mine into St. James In London after mine was serviced and my centre triangle was between clicks!... the spent around 10 mins and and it’s better now, still not 100% compared to my ocd lol...

[Pekket]

Are there any legitimate GMT-Master 16700’s that would have come with a ’Swiss Made’ super luminova dial? Or would such a dial necessarily be a later replacement dial?

Thank you for your knowledge!

[sillo]

Originally Posted by Pekket

Are there any legitimate GMT-Master 16700’s that would have come with a ’Swiss Made’ super luminova dial? Or would such a dial necessarily be a later replacement dial?

Thank you for your knowledge!

I don't think any came with Swiss Made, but I can't say for sure.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Pekket

Are there any legitimate GMT-Master 16700’s that would have come with a ’Swiss Made’ super luminova dial? Or would such a dial necessarily be a later replacement dial?

Thank you for your knowledge!

The last of the 16700's would have come out around 2000, which is the first year of the Swiss Made dials. If there were some, they would have to have been very late serials.

[eskiserkan]

I come up with a NOS “Swiss Made” dial at c24 one year ago. But dont have any idea if its serviced or not.

[lobsterlee]

Originally Posted by sillo

Just to add to this with the help of jP (Springer) I determined there are 5 total dial variations for the 16700. The serials listed with each dial aren't necessarily comprehensive either as the sample size wasn't huge.

Mark I
1st Dial I found. Found in R, L, E, X, S, T, W, U Serials


Mark II
2nd Dial. Found in L, X, N, W, S, T Serials


Mark III/Mark IV
3rd T<25 Dial/1st Swiss dial. I guess we can consider it the 3rd and 4th versions. Found on U and A serials.


Mark V
Last one. Found on T and A serials.

Here’s my 1999 A serial... slightly different to those pictured, as the ‘X’ doesn’t line up with the ‘Swiss’ dial as above 🤔 🤷🏼

[Pekket]

Wow! Than you all for taking the time to respond. Very interesting.

[springer]

Originally Posted by sillo

I don't think any came with Swiss Made, but I can't say for sure.

I would agree. I've owned three 1998 "A" serial numbered GMT 16700s and they all had SWISS marked dials. I haven't owned any marked SWISS MADE.

Additionally, I've owned four "A" serial numbered GMT II 16710s and three of the dials were marked SWISS and one was marked SWISS MADE.

As far as the last of the GMT 16700s go, one can only speculate whether any of the "A" serials had the SWISS MADE marking.

[SaintMickey]

Amazing first article and thread...just picked up a X Serial 167000. What a keeper...
I'd post some photos but for some reason it says I've never posted and need 10 posts? Did something reset LOL?

Again great thread.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by SaintMickey

Amazing first article and thread...just picked up a X Serial 167000. What a keeper...
I'd post some photos but for some reason it says I've never posted and need 10 posts? Did something reset LOL?

Again great thread.

First you do not need 10 post to post a picture under the reply box just click the advanced button.Then scroll down to attache your pictures making sure it the correct file type and size its very easy to do.

[GEOR]

Here's mine - 1998 U-Serial 16700 w/ SWISS only dial and black serif insert

[Yaz]

Originally Posted by GEOR

Here's mine - 1998 U-Serial 16700 w/ SWISS only dial and black serif insert

Really nice


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

[strafer_kid]

16700 is a great watch - would highly recommend to all!

[Nonuendo]

Interesting that the first reference model was black over red. I had always assumed that the pepsi bezel was the first. I guess its just the most iconic.

[jamesmayfield]

Originally Posted by Tools

When Pan-Am first commissioned Rolex to develop a two timezone watch for the new Boeing 707 jets in 1956 , their concern was to keep the pilots reference to home time intact, while still allowing them to track the different time zones they travelled through. It was felt that keeping a home-time reference would alleviate jet-lag as the pilots could still keep their circadian routine. This also gave Jet Navigators an in-cockpit GMT time reference necessary for Celestial Navigation of the era.

Their efforts resulted in the GMT-Master ref. 6542. The GMT stood for Greenwich Mean Time, which was the world standard for a unified or universal time clock.

It's use in practice was initially envisioned as having the watch set for local time, and the bezel was rotated to the new timezone... Local was read at the dial and the timezone you were presently in would be displayed in 24hr time on the bezel....simple. When you got back home the bezel triangle should be back at the 12 o'clock position.

The New GMT and it's line soon became the "standard" and a pilots must-have time-piece. NASA test pilots were given GMT-Masters during development of the record breaking X-series jet aircraft, and they were the personal time-piece of many American astronauts.

The ref 16700 that was produced from about 1988 until 1999 was the last of those watches with synchronized 24hr and 12 hour hands, but with the upgraded sapphire crystal, hacking seconds, and quick-set date.

Specifications
Model: .........................GMT-Master
Reference Number: ........16700
Production Years: ..........1988-1999
Movement: ...................Caliber 3175
Power Reserve: .............48 Hours
Water Resistance: .........100m
Bezel:.......................... Bidirectional
Crown: ........................Screwdown Twinlock
Crystal:....................... Sapphire
Diameter: ....................40mm
Thickness: ...................N/A
Weight: .......................123 grams
Bracelet: .....................Steel, Oyster or Jubilee
Lug Width: ..................20mm
Watchwinder Direction: ..Both


From my personal collection, a 1997 T series GMT 16700:
Attachment 34666

One of the last of the tritium dials:
Attachment 34660

Lug holes case....a treat for the eyes:
Attachment 34659

There are no numbers here....this is one of the originals:
Attachment 34661

The GMT 16700 came equipped with the 28,800bph ca 3175 movement:
Attachment 33771
This movement features a full balance bridge for stability and accuracy, one of Rolex trademarks.. You can see the KIF shock spring at the balance pivot jewel:
Attachment 33772

A 24 hour hand that travels around the dial exactly one half the speed of the main hour hand:
The bezel is turned to the number of hours you are from local time to track any other time-zone in 24hr time, provided you have set your watch to local.

Here is an excerpt from the GMT 16700 Owners Manual:
Attachment 33991
Attachment 33992
Attachment 33993
Attachment 33994

While flying and controlling in Alaska I would set the bezel at -8 hrs to keep track of GMT time, a useful reference for pilots.
Attachment 34663

One unusual aspect of the 16700 - It was offered with the 93150 Sub Style bracelet (perhaps to fit over a flight suit?), a popular option which I preferred at the time:
This one still has the original 93150/501B bracelet - V9, Sept 1996 clasp code...Purchased in early 1997:
Attachment 34664

This was the last of it's kind, almost ignored because of the new 16710 and only a few of them were made:
Attachment 34665

Great guide! After getting my first GMT Master II i decided to learn much more about the history of the model, and needless to say it's fascinating! I actually found this great GMT Master 16700 reference guide that I'm sure you'll appreciate: https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-bl...ref-16700.html

"Rolex began its GMT-Master story in 1955 with its very first pilot watch made for Pan Am Airlines, the reference 6542. More than four decades later, the Swiss watchmaker concluded that chapter with its last GMT-Master watch – the ref. 16700. Of course, the Rolex pilot watch saga continues today with the GMT-Master II collection, but the original Rolex GMT-Master is no more.

Let’s delve into that very last reference with the ultimate guide to the Rolex GMT-Master 16700."

Super informative and very interesting!

[teatea]

Great read, I really enjoyed going through this long thread, I own a 16700 transitional dial "SWISS", "U" serial, it's a beautiful watch! They are becoming quiet thought after now.

[strafer_kid]

Originally Posted by teatea

Great read, I really enjoyed going through this long thread, I own a 16700 transitional dial "SWISS", "U" serial, it's a beautiful watch! They are becoming quiet thought after now.

Yes…. would imagine that these will become increasingly popular and sought after. Terrific watch that has more or less become my “daily”..……and this is from a Sub/SD guy! Highly recommended!

[jl4ec]

Good post

[wilsonpepper]

Originally Posted by dantheman3u4i

Hey all,

I just purchased a 16700 myself with the black bezel insert. I am thinking about going pepsi in the near future. I recently saw a number of people say that RSC sell the inserts for $40? Will they actually just sell you an insert without service? Any help is greatly appreciated!

Yes, they will and Beverley Hills Service Center will do it for you while you wait, and it's $50 total tax and tags included !

They will keep the old one.

[RFC]

Originally Posted by chows99

Watch in superb condition. I will be planning to go RSC and get a pepsi insert. But due to the policy of 1 for 1 replacement, I am gonna go to a watchmaker and remove my all black insert 1st then go "naked" over to RSC. It's silly but no choice....

Update to keep the conversation active. Sent my 16700 T series to RSC Dallas with a guarantee from customer service that the original faded bezel Pepsi insert would be replaced and returned to me after service. For other references I’m told there’s a “trade in” policy for inserts and no insert for any reference is available for sale by RSC or an AD unless the watch is serviced. Currently the turn around time for delivery after service is 8 weeks after inspection and customer approval.

[pursang_]

Do we have any educated guesses on the production numbers for the tail end of the 16700 run?

[Phrank]

Originally Posted by Tools

When Pan-Am first commissioned Rolex to develop a two timezone watch for the new Boeing 707 jets in 1956 , their concern was to keep the pilots reference to home time intact, while still allowing them to track the different time zones they travelled through. It was felt that keeping a home-time reference would alleviate jet-lag as the pilots could still keep their circadian routine. This also gave Jet Navigators an in-cockpit GMT time reference necessary for Celestial Navigation of the era.


<snip>


This was the last of it's kind, almost ignored because of the new 16710 and only a few of them were made:

Rise from the Dead, Thread!

Great post, been reading this and thoroughly enjoying, doing some further research, and since someone has to take the fall, it's the OP...

Hopefully there will an "Incoming" tomorrow, before 3pm, with signature

Thanks Tools, was an awesome read and loved this thread.....