32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Seo

As the pr runs lower and amp decreases my timing gets a little bit quicker. Repeat measure every 12 hours using watch tracker with watch left dial up static.

Right at the end then it goes very slow but only right at the end of the pr.

My problematic dj did very similar to your graphs. Timing slower and slower as pr runs out from full wind.

Your observation is different from the shown isochronism graphs: they display the average rates and average amplitudes along the power reserve. That is not the same.

What you describe I also observe for all watches that are regulated with a positive rate in dial up position.

The watch continuously gains time because it always remains in DU. When the power reserve gets very low then the caliber slows down as you describe. I posted an example for a 3235 long time ago in this thread.

[Seo]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Your observation is different from the shown isochronism graphs: they display the average rates and average amplitudes along the power reserve. That is not the same.

What you describe I also observe for all watches that are regulated with a positive rate in dial up position.

The watch continuously gains time because it always remains in DU. When the power reserve gets very low then the caliber slows down as you describe. I posted an example for a 3235 long time ago in this thread.

No the rate gets faster for instance 0-24 hr the watch is about +2 per day but 24-48 the watch is about 3-4 s per day.

The second 24 hour period appear to have a faster rate not just overall timing.

[Seo]

Hello Saxo do you have a power reserve x timing graph of a healthy 31xx?

[saxo3]

@Seo I just found the 'old' graph ...

[Annan]

For Saxo, Bas, Charles and all the other "experts" on this thread. I appreciate your efforts and thank you. Saw this cartoon and thought it was good for a laugh for all of us.

[Annan]

So......since moving away from the Swiss lever escapement am I understanding correctly that the Omega 8900 calibre movement has shown problems similar to the Rolex 32XX?

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by Annan

So......since moving away from the Swiss lever escapement am I understanding correctly that the Omega 8900 calibre movement has shown problems similar to the Rolex 32XX?

No, Omega had issues with the earlier 2500-series Co-Axial that was based on the ETA 2892. The problem was mostly solved with the 4th iteration/D-variant of that movement, and the all-new 8xxx/9xxx co-axial movements that were released starting in 2007 are fine.

It’s starting to look like a good strategy by Omega. They implemented a new escapement over 20 years ago, spent half a decade or so dialing it in, and then made an all-new, from the ground-up movement designed for the Co-Axial escapement. Now Rolex (and maybe GS) are floundering trying to match them with new escapement tech…although the public is largely still unaware of it, so maybe not.

[Annan]

Interesting....thanks. I've been considering an Omega Globemaster with 8900.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Annan

Interesting....thanks. I've been considering an Omega Globemaster with 8900.

8800 and 8900 are outstanding movements

Proceed with absolute confidence

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by Annan

So......since moving away from the Swiss lever escapement am I understanding correctly that the Omega 8900 calibre movement has shown problems similar to the Rolex 32XX?

Originally Posted by EEpro

8800 and 8900 are outstanding movements

Proceed with absolute confidence

I agree. I have had a very good experience with mine so far.

[Seo]

Originally Posted by Easy E

I agree. I have had a very good experience with mine so far.

Also agreed

My 8500d has been perfect for over ten years now I’d expect the 8900 which is the successor to be absolutely rock solid.

[atxwatch]

Originally Posted by EEpro

8800 and 8900 are outstanding movements

Proceed with absolute confidence

Agree. I own 2 watches with 8800 (Planet Ocean + SMP300) and 1 watch with 8900 (Aqua Terra) and all 3 are super accurate. And I bang those watches around way more than my BLRO or Sub.

[the dark knight]

Originally Posted by atxwatch

Agree. I own 2 watches with 8800 (Planet Ocean + SMP300) and 1 watch with 8900 (Aqua Terra) and all 3 are super accurate. And I bang those watches around way more than my BLRO or Sub.

+1. I was an early adopter with the early 2500 movements and had some frustrating issues with some of those watches. It's been quite cool to see Omega figure out the early issues and produce some really great movements starting with the 8500.

In fact it's my experience and frustration with those early 2500s that is making me extremely wary of the 32xx. I don't know if Omega ever came up with a permanent fix specifically for owners of those early calibers. My understanding is the 2500D was a huge change and structurally the movement is closer to the later 8500 than the early 3 iterations of the 2500. So not sure if Omega did movement swaps for those with faulty earlier versions of the 2500s or what.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by the dark knight

+1. I was an early adopter with the early 2500 movements and had some frustrating issues with some of those watches. It's been quite cool to see Omega figure out the early issues and produce some really great movements starting with the 8500.

In fact it's my experience and frustration with those early 2500s that is making me extremely wary of the 32xx. I don't know if Omega ever came up with a permanent fix specifically for owners of those early calibers. My understanding is the 2500D was a huge change and structurally the movement is closer to the later 8500 than the early 3 iterations of the 2500. So not sure if Omega did movement swaps for those with faulty earlier versions of the 2500s or what.

Yes, there was some trouble with the earliest 2500's and their Co-axial and that prompted the re-design of the escapement. The earliest indications were that Omega hadn't got the lubrication of the escapement right and it was easy to over do the lubrication when effecting warranty repairs.
But it wasn't until Omega slowed the rate down to match the one that Daniels had advised in the first instance being 3.5hz, that things started to improve.
My 2403 is one of the earlier slower beat movements and it's been great ever since the first day i brought it home new in 2005 iirc. She's a keeper in every respect with it being rugged, accurate and precise, not to mention quite cost effective to maintain with only one service under its belt after the first 13 years

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by Annan

Interesting....thanks. I've been considering an Omega Globemaster with 8900.

The Globemaster really looks fantastic. Nothing to worry about there.

[Seo]

Thank you for the comments re 5 day spring drive.

[Omarion07]

Cals 4131 (Daytona), 9002 (Skydweller), Cal 7140 (New 1908) are all Chronergy escapements now. Seems to me Rolex have faith in this escapement design. Let's see if these will behave differently to the 32xx movements.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

[Seo]

Originally Posted by Omarion07

Cals 4131 (Daytona), 9002 (Skydweller), Cal 7140 (New 1908) are all Chronergy escapements now. Seems to me Rolex have faith in this escapement design. Let's see if these will behave differently to the 32xx movements.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

I hope the escapement is not the root cause of the issues.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by seo

i hope the escapement is not the root cause of the issues.

-> 3161 (p. 106) and 3182 (p. 107)

[Michael N Q8]

Welcome back Michael,

Thanks for joining again with an update and good news.

Your 126710BLRO (3285) runs fine 25 months after repair.
I remember you bought it in June 2018, now 3 months guarantee left, right?

My 126600 (3235) needed a second repair 35 months after the first repair.
I see you also own a 126600?

Time to upgrade from your iPhone app and get some reliable timegrapher (~200 $) data measured before the end of the BLRO warranty?

Hi, yes the warranty will expire 26 June 23...I need to update my watch list, I don't have the 126600 anymore, I changed it for a 116600.

I took measurements over three days, without winding and leaving the watch Dial Up all the time. The results are that the amplitude does go below 200, but after 71 hours the watch was still keeping/gaining time. Over the 3 days it gained 7 seconds. The average amplitude measured on each position decreased from 234 to 194, but after 52 hours the average amplitude was lower (184).

Based on these measurements and actual timekeeping performance I would conclude that 2 years after the service, this movement does not seem to have the issue anymore.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Michael N Q8

The results are that the amplitude does go below 200, but after 71 hours the watch was still keeping/gaining time. Over the 3 days it gained 7 seconds. The average amplitude measured on each position decreased from 234 to 194, but after 52 hours the average amplitude was lower (184).

Thanks, the text marked in green I understand

[saxo3]

New watches 2023 with new/existing calibers

My Table, all information taken from Rolex.com (27.03.2023)



Calibre 4131
The Cosmograph Daytona is equipped with calibre 4131. This new chronograph movement, entirely developed and manufactured by Rolex, is an evolution of calibre 4130. Unveiled in 2023, it incorporates a number of the major innovations that Rolex has brought to its movements, including the Chronergy escapement to reduce energy loss (among other advantages); Paraflex shock absorbers to protect the heart of the movement; and an optimized ball bearing to enhance self-winding.
This calibre features a new aesthetic for the brand: a cut-out oscillating weight and, on the bridges, an exclusive Rolex Côtes de Genève decoration – a reinterpretation of an iconic finishing in traditional Swiss watchmaking.

A new calibre – the 7140
To drive the 1908, Rolex watch engineers developed calibre 7140, a completely new self-winding movement, with two centre hands and a small seconds at 6 o’clock. Five patent applications have been filed for this slim movement, entirely developed and manufactured by Rolex.
Fitted with the Syloxi hairspring, Chronergy escapement and Paraflex shock absorbers, it guarantees a power reserve of approximately 66 hours and offers outstanding chronometric performance (–2/+2 seconds per day).

To slim down the timepiece, the Rolex teams worked on reducing the thickness of the case by a third compared to the watches in the Oyster Perpetual collection, without sacrificing any of the movement’s performance. The calibre was designed to accommodate the stringent Superlative Chronometer demands of precision and reliability. Creating a slimmer case called for the development of innovative technical solutions, for example to perfectly master the assembly of the oscillator.

Calibre 9002
The new-generation Sky-Dweller is equipped with calibre 9002. A derivation of calibre 9001, which has driven the model since its launch in 2012, it is among the most complex movements designed by Rolex engineers.
Enabling the display of the hours, minutes, seconds, the date and the month, as well as an additional time zone in 24-hour format, calibre 9002 includes the latest technical innovations that Rolex has brought to its movements – Chronergy escapement, Paraflex shock absorbers and a new oscillating weight with an optimized ball bearing.

[Bulldozer]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Calibre 9002
The new-generation Sky-Dweller is equipped with calibre 9002. A derivation of calibre 9001, which has driven the model since its launch in 2012, it is among the most complex movements designed by Rolex engineers.
Enabling the display of the hours, minutes, seconds, the date and the month, as well as an additional time zone in 24-hour format, calibre 9002 includes the latest technical innovations that Rolex has brought to its movements – Chronergy escapement, Paraflex shock absorbers and a new oscillating weight with an optimized ball bearing.

I was initially thinking this was probably not the best thread for my question, but after seeing this, maybe it is! Didn't the 9001 already have Paraflex shock absorbers and ball-bearing rotors? They are listed here: https://www.watch-wiki.net/doku.php?id=rolex_9001

Also, does anyone know if Rolex for sure did not upgrade the 9001 with the Chronergy escapement after 2015? I assume they did not, since otherwise they would've made a big deal about it, although they did upgrade the frail tension spring for the hour wheel assembly on the 3187 with a beefier one in the later years of its production quite silently.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Bulldozer

I was initially thinking this was probably not the best thread for my question, but after seeing this, maybe it is! Didn't the 9001 already have Paraflex shock absorbers and ball-bearing rotors? They are listed here: https://www.watch-wiki.net/doku.php?id=rolex_9001

Also, does anyone know if Rolex for sure did not upgrade the 9001 with the Chronergy escapement after 2015? I assume they did not, since otherwise they would've made a big deal about it, although they did upgrade the frail tension spring for the hour wheel assembly on the 3187 with a beefier one in the later years of its production quite silently.

Rolex have to pad out the marketing blurb as much as they can.
After all, they can't boast about having hour a minute hands on their watches, not to mention novels on the dial for a bit of light reading.
Says my good self taping this out whilst wearing a DSSD

[Michael N Q8]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[atxwatch]

Well...I was on the list for a Daytona and Skydweller this year...I am not buying those new versions with the Chronergy escapements. That much is certain.

[Easy E]

We are going to have some new friends in this thread shortly. Everyone be nice.

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by atxwatch

Well...I was on the list for a Daytona and Skydweller this year...I am not buying those new versions with the Chronergy escapements. That much is certain.

Originally Posted by Easy E

We are going to have some new friends in this thread shortly. Everyone be nice.

Sorry can you guys clarify? Do the new calibers have similar issues to the 32xx? If so how do we know?

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by Vince_76

Sorry can you guys clarify? Do the new calibers have similar issues to the 32xx? If so how do we know?

Time will tell.
I certainly hope they will not develop similar issues.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Easy E

We are going to have some new friends in this thread shortly. Everyone be nice.

True
But then again, maybe not if they're finally on top of it