Grand Seiko vs Rolex Explorer I (39mm)

[Greg G]

I learned something new today. I did not know that the Spring Drive wasn't purely mechanical.

I can see why it has to go back to Seiko for service now. Very complicated to my eye.

[Nidal]

This is a Rolex forum and not Seiko forum or Fossil forum.
I've never heard someone passing a Seiko to his son, but sure hear people passing a Rolex to their descendents.

[GregoryZ]

Hi Nidal, I use to think the same way once, but have become aware how fine the Grand Seiko watch really is. In fact, I hope to add one of those beauties to my collection one day. BTW, I'm not referring to the Seiko's you see at JC Penney, I'm talking about an entirely diferent breed of watch. If you get a chance look up Grand Seiko.

[powerfunk]

Yeah we're having a killer convo about Grand Seiko over on fossilforums.net right now

[Griever369]

Spring drive isn't fully mechanical yea they have a regulator to make it super accurate, kinda like abs on a car. Me though can't stand having the power reserve on the dial. They do have pure mechanical GS like mine and the even more accurate hi beat models which put COSC standards to shame ;)

[MP5]

Originally Posted by Greg G

I learned something new today. I did not know that the Spring Drive wasn't purely mechanical.

I can see why it has to go back to Seiko for service now. Very complicated to my eye.

You wouldnt consider any high grade in house movement to be very complicated needing to go back to the manufacturer?

[Greg G]

When my Sub C needs to be serviced I'll send it to Rolex in Dallas.

That's a little closer to me than Japan. (I live in Texas).

[MP5]

Originally Posted by Greg G

When my Sub C needs to be serviced I'll send it to Rolex in Dallas.

That's a little closer to me than Japan. (I live in Texas).

Wonder if the high grades go there or back to the alps?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Greg G

When my Sub C needs to be serviced I'll send it to Rolex in Dallas.

That's a little closer to me than Japan. (I live in Texas).

Well truth be told any good watchmaker could service a Rolex movement like the 3 and 4 series,the movements themselves although they use quality machine made parts.The way the movements are constructed its no more difficult to service them than most other mechanical movements made today.The big problem is Rolex has such a strangle hold on getting parts if any are needed,and to a good watchmaker they are just movements like the many others.Movements like the spring drive are far more complicated than most other mechanical or mechanical hybrid movements.

[MP5]

Does anyone know if the YMII or Sky Dweller have to go back to the Swiss?

[Greg G]

Originally Posted by MP5

Wonder if the high grades go there or back to the alps?

I think of my Rolex as a high grade, but hey...I'm just a simple kind of guy.

[MP5]

Originally Posted by Greg G

I think of my Rolex as a high grade, but hey...I'm just a simple kind of guy.

Mechanically they are not except for the YMII and Sky Dweller.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by MP5

Does anyone know if the YMII or Sky Dweller have to go back to the Swiss?

Well in the real world the YM11 cal 4160/1 movement is based on the cal 4130 like in Daytona but modded for the YM11.So as for service cannot see any problem not sure about the cal 9001 in the Skydweller but expect they can be serviced too by the Rolex certified watchmakers or back to factory HQ.

[MP5]

Im more concerned with integrated bezel and functions.

[busytimmy]

The amount of logical fallacies in this thread is staggering.

[Greg G]

Originally Posted by MP5

Mechanically they are not except for the YMII and Sky Dweller.

What I own will have to be good enough for me for now. I'm not sure I need a watch that only a handful of people in the world know how to work on.

[adt]

More Seiko history (fantastic read):

http://www.watchesbysjx.com/2013/06/...tory.html#more

I'm not sure if pasting links to blogs is ok. This blog doesn't sell anything. Mods, please remove if this is against the rules. Thanks.

[mikkolopez]

No offense on the Grand Seiko with it's very accurate and reliable movement and excellent craftsmanship but my vote will always go to a Rolex.

[zeuloa]

Originally Posted by CKL1213

I think Seiko should not use the name "Grand Seiko" when they decided to produce a premium segment because the mother brand name "Seiko" still stick to it.

Toyota is smart enough to totally come out with a new name "Lexus" instead of coming out as "Grand Toyota"

I gotta say it works, people are accepting Lexus even thought they knew it was a premium Toyota.

The same goes to: Nissan to Infinity, Honda to Acura

If Seiko want to position their "Grand Seiko" segment to compete with the Swiss big boys, they gotta do it right in the first place.

A brand name is very important and too bad they (Seiko) are building their business thru low end watches and slowly make their way up. People will remember that and associate that with their brand name.

What if Patek announced that they will have a new USD 200 model coming out and still selling their Grand Complication series. What will people perceive against Patek?

All those luxury brand they set their foundation right, never sell cheap in the first place, maintain and build from there not the other way around.

Imagine Ford announced that they are coming with a "Grand Ford" series to compete against Porsche?

People will debate and take times to accept "Grand Ford" even if "Grand Ford" is really better than a Porsche.

Just like the case with Grand Seiko vs other Swiss big boys now, I know you are good but it takes time.

Ford actually did this, but it was to compete with Ferrari because they were not able to buy them out (Enzo backed out from the deal when it was all said and done). The Ford GT 40 was born in 1964 and it raced, and actually beat Ferrari at LeMans.

From 2003 to 2008 Ford built the Ford GT which was priced at $150k I believe, and it sold very well. It was a homage to the GT40. It is one of the last true driver's super cars.

[N_Architect]

Got back from Japan couple of days ago. Brought with me the 04/2013 GS brochure. Here it is, apologies for the lousy pics. Prices are MSRP, Yodobashi has the watches at about 10-20% less, depending on model.

[Billywiz]

Looks like they are trying to clone Rolex?

[adt]

http://www.watchesbysjx.com/2011/12/...seiko.html?m=1

Here is another great article. As you can see im a big fan of Seiko.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

[N_Architect]

Originally Posted by Billywiz

Looks like they are trying to clone Rolex?

A number of manufacturers have tried in the past and will continue to try to clone Rolex, to a lesser or larger extent.

What is noteworthy is that Citizen are now out with a full new line of 'upscale' watches, exactly similar to the GS line. Their designs are 99% identical to those of GS, and their marketing style (brochures, etc.) is likewise.

I saw the entire line at Yodobashi Fukuoka over the weekend, did not take many pictures or pick up their brochure, but can tell you it is right along the footsteps of GS. I have no clue on the movement manufacture, i.e. handmade or not, etc. but the prices were in the order of $2k plus.

I did take a picture of their back design, which comes in just like that of the GS design:

[CKL1213]

first the Grand Seiko now Grand Citizen, near future we will have Grand Casio, Grand G-Shock, Grand Alba, Grand Orient and perhaps a top of the line Grand Seiko which earned the Double Grand Status of Japanese watchmaking - The Grand Grand Seiko.

or the Triple Grand - The Grand Grand Grand Seiko

[ecsub44]

Originally Posted by Billywiz

Looks like they are trying to clone Rolex?

How so?

[Billywiz]

Interesting too how 'clasical' the designs are...all retro...I do like that trend.

[Billywiz]

Originally Posted by ecsub44

How so?

...well look at them...they are very similar design.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Billywiz

...well look at them...they are very similar design.

You could say that just about every manufactures today and in the past all watches have a dial.And they all have either numbers or stick markers and hands to tell the time.Even the first Rolex Sub was very similar to the Blancpain 50 fathoms that was released a full 9 months before the first sub. And don't think any Rolex has a power reserve complication,or that style of hands, style of stick markers,dial colour,winding crowns or style of date window. So apart from telling the time then in that department they are remarkably similar just like all watches today.

[Daytona-Dan]

Originally Posted by padi56

You could say that just about every manufactures today and in the past all watches have a dial.And they all have either numbers or stick markers and hands to tell the time.Even the first Rolex Sub was very similar to the Blancpain 50 fathoms that was released a full 9 months before the first sub. And don't think any Rolex has a power reserve complication,or that style of hands, style of stick markers,dial colour,winding crowns or style of date window. So apart from telling the time then in that department they are remarkably similar just like all watches today.

I think John is specifically talking about the brochure posted above by Konstantinos (N_Architect). Some of the models do indeed resemble Rolex (minus complications of course). I can see an almost direct copy of the new explorer 2 in both black and white with the only exception being the colour of the GMT hand and slightly different markers and hands. I also see some very suspicious looking Milgauss-esque looking anti magnetics which have the luminous colour writing but are missing the probably trademarked/patented bent seconds and a few of the others look like DJ/OP but without the Cyclops. I'm not saying they are identical, and there are a few there that look nothing like the Rolex equivalent (like the GMTs) but the resemblance is definitely there and there is no denying it.

Then again, where do you draw the line at resemblance? In another thread, someone was recently trying to tell me that all chronographs across all brands/designs look the same because they all have sub dials...

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Daytona-Dan

I think John is specifically talking about the brochure posted above by Konstantinos (N_Architect). Some of the models do indeed resemble Rolex (minus complications of course). I can see an almost direct copy of the new explorer 2 in both black and white with the only exception being the colour of the GMT hand and slightly different markers and hands. I also see some very suspicious looking Milgauss-esque looking anti magnetics which have the luminous colour writing but are missing the probably trademarked/patented bent seconds and a few of the others look like DJ/OP but without the Cyclops. I'm not saying they are identical, and there are a few there that look nothing like the Rolex equivalent (like the GMTs) but the resemblance is definitely there and there is no denying it.

Then again, where do you draw the line at resemblance? In another thread, someone was recently trying to tell me that all chronographs across all brands/designs look the same because they all have sub dials...

Well apart from the dial colour and it has numbers on the bezel like most GMT watches, that's the only similarity that I can see to the new Rolex Explorer 11.And apart from the slightly similar dial colour I cannot see any resemblance to a Milgauss .