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25 February 2016, 03:53 AM | #331 |
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Interesting comic in my local paper, I have no idea if it is "Pro" or "Con" Apple.
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25 February 2016, 07:48 AM | #332 | |
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Interesting article in Bloomberg today from a source at Apple that says part of Apples defense will be code is a 1st Amendment issue. This just might go to the Supreme Court. On a side note, its a blessing that the FBI chose one of the most valuable tech companies in the world to slap this order on. They can afford to fight this until it's last appeal and hopefully prevail. |
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25 February 2016, 07:55 AM | #333 |
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25 February 2016, 11:03 AM | #334 |
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Apple's stand against the Feds
Tonight's Tim Cook interview with David Muir on ABC Network news is enlightening. The full interview is on their website.
I do detect a scent of revenge in FBI going public. That's after I learned that Apple had been advising FBI behind the scene. And that FBI made grave error in advising the terrorist's employer to switch the Apple ID and p/w in the days following the attacks. As all of us who have done RDM know - you can never do an iCloud backup after such a screw-up. And the best way to have downloaded everything on that iPhone was to do a back-up and restore on a new device. I have a personal belief that the actual phones used to plan and execute the attacks were the "go-phone" types that were also destroyed/ditched. The business phone this terrorist had would also have been destroyed had he put any of his cohorts names/numbers on it. Further, he would have avoided doing that because of fear his own employer might have stumbled upon the messaging/calls/contacts in routine scans of backups. I am still undecided on the many sides to this situation. IMHO - We are still working in shadowy info and maybe even mis-info.
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25 February 2016, 11:12 AM | #335 |
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Saw the interview too and am still 100% in agreement with Apple's stance and this simply reinforced that.
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25 February 2016, 03:02 PM | #336 | |
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25 February 2016, 04:28 PM | #337 | |
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25 February 2016, 05:57 PM | #338 | |
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He did inquire why the sheep in the pictures are looking at you so lovingly . . . |
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25 February 2016, 11:56 PM | #339 | |
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Apple's stand against the Feds
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A couple of thoughts on this belief...and I think many millions of people do agree with your POV. First, In a free society with a constitutional guarantee like the 4th amendment, our people who are expected to thwart any future attacks (LEOs, FBI, CIA, NSA, Military, etc.) often feel handcuffed by that very document meant to keep us free. Believe it or not, the attacks on 9|11 did not launch our most powerful weapon against terrorists. It was the establishment of FISA Courts in 1978. But these powers are two-edged - there are violations of the law (like when VZ was ordered to feed CDRs on ALL phone calls to NSA). So that is why people are vigilant about protecting freedom against misuse of legal processes. I can understand that. My 2nd thought is that those same people (who feel strongly that Apple should not help) are also voluntarily providing their own protected info every day to corporate and social media sites. Last night in US, there was a PBS documentary called "The Human Face of Big Data". If you missed it, it will replay or be on the web soon. Here is the PBS info: http://www.pbs.org/search/?q=The+human+face+of+big+data With the IoT and smartphones people will voluntarily provide the same data they would refuse to give law enforcement without a warrant. So I see the other side of Paul's point - why not just comply? Apple has previously admitted they use data from users to sell ads and otherwise market their own offerings. All told, big data is changing your life - hopefully in more helpful ways than harmful ones. As the filmmakers of the PBS documentary showed, the massive gathering and analyzing of data in real time is allowing us to address some of humanity's biggest challenges. But at same time the release of NSA no-no's are chilling, too. One little story from the documentary was very insightful. It came from a marketing effort by Target stores. Target hired a data analyst. They wanted to improve their own use of voluntary consumer data - the type you'd willingly give for a freebie. In this case, the purchasing pattern established by expectant mothers who had voluntarily registered on Target's Baby Shower registry. By extrapolating their patterns to the entire list of customers, Target uncovered a teenager's pregnancy before she had even told her parents. (Full story: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-i...egnancy-2012-2) So wither thou goest...so goes your data... I suggest many have often voluntarily pierced the veil of the 4th amendment for corporations that give us a chachki, but scream to the high heavens when law enforcement asks for similar data. Just sharing in the spirit of balance Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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26 February 2016, 01:16 AM | #340 | |
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I think the difference is that Target (Big Data) can't put you in jail, freeze your bank accounts, seize your assets, or put you on a global no fly list. Whereas, the US government can and will. |
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26 February 2016, 07:23 AM | #341 |
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Apple has filed it's motion to vacate citing 1st and 5th Amendments. IMO, pretty compelling argument but I'm not a lawyer or a judge
https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...exus-IS300.pdf |
28 February 2016, 04:23 PM | #342 |
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Just curious...when the pollsters ask people if they side with Apple disobeying a court order, are the people aware that the phone belongs to THE COUNTY OF SAN BERNARDINO? The OWNER of the phone has consented to its being opened up. The terrorist was a County employee who signed a user agreement that I bet is similar to user agreements employees sign when they use their employer's equipment...even more so, as County records are public records. Incoming/outgoing calls, emails, and texts, let alone Internet searches, are being done on a County-owned phone.
I write this on my iPad, by the way. We are a Mac family. I have an iPhone. |
29 February 2016, 02:59 AM | #343 |
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29 February 2016, 03:01 AM | #344 | |
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Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk |
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29 March 2016, 08:35 AM | #345 |
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Well, the FBI was supposedly able to gain access to the iPhone through a 3rd party.
Hopefully The FBI will continue to use 3rd parties to hack into phones instead of having the court order Apple or any other software maker to do it for them. http://bigstory.ap.org/article/bed1c...legal-action-0 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
29 March 2016, 11:44 AM | #346 |
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^^Or the FBI could be legally prevented from hacking into anything by a SCOTUS ruling in defense if the Fourth Amendment.
Just sayin'. |
29 March 2016, 12:27 PM | #347 |
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We'll see if the FBI informs Apple of the vulnerability.
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29 March 2016, 05:56 PM | #348 |
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Maybe when they've used it to access any other iPhones they want to access. Just to keep the moral high ground perhaps ;)
Apple have made a big mistake here and now come out in a worse position. If they'd done as the FBI asked they could have controlled the access and how it was used and then managed the situation in collaboration with the FBI. Instead it's now completely out of their control and suddenly the iPhone is not a secure device anymore. |
29 March 2016, 06:08 PM | #349 | |
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The FBI has a duty to consider advising Apple so that Americans aren't attacked using the vulnerability. It's also a national security question, which probably requires POTUS review to resolve. Reports say all 5Cs are vulnerable. That could be a lot of Americans at risk. Election year politics may intervene. |
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29 March 2016, 06:17 PM | #350 | |
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Definitely more to come out of this situation.... |
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29 March 2016, 07:00 PM | #351 | |
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And, you can't possibly know whether this hack is the same approach Apple would have used. You are assuming there is only one solution. We now know there is at least one solution. Perhaps, there could be more. Knowing that third parties can hack the iPhone does damage Apple. But not nearly as much as knowing that Apple colludes with governments to attack its customers would have. Technology fixes are fast and easy. Loss of trust can never be regained. |
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29 March 2016, 09:25 PM | #352 | |
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The fact that we are having this debate in our country gives me great hope. I understand and sympathize with the FBI's point of view. They are charged with preventing these types of attacks and dismantling the terrorist networks in the US that want to sow seeds of destruction. This is a heavy burden, and I hope that they are good at their job. But then there's a large part of me that doesn't want to trade civil liberties for security. To do so would be handing a victory to the terrorists, which is the last thing I want to do. It's sort of a "f@ck you" to terrorism when we hold fast to our ideals. |
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29 March 2016, 09:48 PM | #353 | |
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Agree. There have been a number of cases in the past where law enforcement was hindered by the constitution, and we've managed to survive and flourish without those LE powers. As others have noted elsewhere, some people just like to see the world burn. But for terrorists with a plan to change the world, there is no greater defeat than an absence of change in response to their attacks. We may not be able to prevent all terrorist attacks, but we can prevent the loss of our way of life by not conceding to their tactics and abandoning our civil liberties. |
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30 March 2016, 12:37 AM | #354 | ||
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Technology is a moving target. Always new encryption, always new hacks. Apple is not trying to control the technology. Apple was and is trying to control the legal precedent. But, it seems to me, Apple is on pretty mushy ground if Tim Cook has said that they would not hack a phone, but they would hack the cloud and turn over a customer's cloud data. |
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30 March 2016, 12:46 AM | #355 | |
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30 March 2016, 12:52 AM | #356 |
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That would be truly unprecedented and is one of the real terra incognita issues of this case. With regard to the cloud, Apple has apparently been giving the government cloud data in other cases, cases that have been handled out of the public view. This is troubling.
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30 March 2016, 01:40 AM | #357 |
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I wonder how this would have played out if Apple had not been a US company headquartered here?
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30 March 2016, 03:06 AM | #358 | |
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Personally, I believe the slaughter of innocent human beings justified this action, and I lost all respect for Apple continuing to fight. I am glad the FBI got what they needed. Will it result in stopping any future attacks? Probably not, I honestly have no idea, but when innocent people are slaughtered like insects we shouldn't take the chance. |
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30 March 2016, 03:34 AM | #359 | |
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The reverse of the trust issue is also true though - I lost what trust (not a lot admittedly) and respect I had for Apple when they refused to co-operate with the FBI. Going back to what you said about the FBI having a duty to advise Apple of the method so that Americans aren't attacked using it; isn't this the same as the duty they had to protect Americans as best they could from terrorism by asking Apple to unlock the phone? I believe it is. |
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30 March 2016, 04:42 AM | #360 | |
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