Resurrection ????

[hutchman]

Originally Posted by Launch Mini

Very interesting on the voting, and how the tides have changed.
One only wonders, if all the mods voted NO, that still does not leave many other members voting that way.
I just say interesting, that's all.
Not going to make any assumptions based on the poll results. I would have to read the voters list myself to ensure I had all the facts.

Seems very strange to me also! There are lots of votes against reinstatement but no reasons being posted for the opinions.

Lets hear from the members that voted against. Man-up and give your reasons!

[mrbieler]

There are 3,044 members of this forum and you're waving around conspiracy theories because of the 28 who have voted (less then 1%) , 15 haven't voted your way?

Originally Posted by Lol-x

I'm sorry Avalon but I disagree with what you say.
I take it from your post that you do agree with everything else that I said in my post, except the statement that Atomic used profanity and vulgar terms towards the vast majority of members.
So:
1. You don't dispute that he abused me personally when I had never said anything of an abusive nature about or towards him.
2. You don't dispute that he stated that he was happy to be banned.
3. You don't dispute that he expressed contempt for the forum in vulgar and abusive language.
4 You don't dispute that he in effect wanted to destroy the forum.
5. You don't dispute that the decision to ban Atomic wasn't made hastily, and occurred after many months of observation, consideration, warnings and deliberations.
6. You don't dispute that Atomic stated to me that he ONLY used the forum to speak to a few "friends", which friends he had "stolen" away to another forum.
I didn't quote the words used, but stated my conclusion given the statement he made that I did not want to repeat here.
Sorry if you don't agree with my conclusion, the forum consists of the sum of its members, and given the foregoing, I come to the inescapable conclusion that he hates the forum and thus its members and expressed that in vulgar terms about all who did not fall into his small group of "friends" that he so proudly stated he had now "stolen away to another place".
I can't help but think that Atomic is giving you information and inciting you to be divisive with your posts in this thread. In all the circumstances, Atomic will not be coming back here. I'm also informed this isn't the first time he has been banned from a watch forum on the internet.

Hi Steve,

If you want to do things this way I’ll respond to all on your list – maybe that way there will be less “jumping to conclusions.”

1/ As I said in my first post in this thread, he called you an a-hole. Can I verify that you have “never said anything of an abusive nature about or towards him”? No I can’t. I didn’t see it in the emails, but I certainly can’t verify what you have said “to or about him” outside of that exchange.

2/ I do dispute that statement. He did not say he was “happy to be banned” but did say he was not “mad” about it. In my opinion, he is/was mad about being betrayed by people who claimed to be his friends as I stated in my first post.

3/ I saw him express contempt for the way this place is run, and those who run it.

4/ I didn’t see anything that would indicate he wanted to destroy the forum, unless you are referring to where he says he will tell people the truth about how it’s run in more detail?

5/ I have no idea how the decision to ban Atomic was arrived at, and neither does he. That is the crux of the exchange you had with him and you refused to discuss it with him when he asked in his original email to you. I do know one of your moderators baited him in a thread, Atomic made a response (fairly tame as others have noted), the moderator admitted to baiting him, and by the next morning he was banned. If you had answered his questions we would not be having this exchange on TRF right now……

6/ He did say that he used the forum mainly to interact with his friends. That is no secret as anyone who has paid attention can clearly see his rate of posts has dropped over the last couple of months (as have others). He did say that he stole away members to another forum. Personally I think he takes too much credit for this as I think the moderators here should get the credit for that. However, this is simply my opinion.

Now that we have those out of the way, I’ll say it again…..Atomic did not make vulgar and profane statements about the vast majority of TRF members. I see you making a lot of assumptions about his feelings towards members, but the fact remains that he did not make the statement you said he did.

It is no secret that Atomic is my friend. He has told me what has gone on, but has not incited me to do anything. You incited me to post in this thread by stating lies about what he said to you. If me coming here and telling the truth is considered divisive, then I guess it is what it is.

As I said previously, emotions run high when people feel betrayed and Atomic used some language that has obviously upset you. But what exactly did you expect when you refused to discuss his banning with him……flowers and a card?

The last comment I have is about yet another attempt on your part to paint Atomic in a negative light by bringing up the fact he has been banned before. That is true; he has been banned before (banned from TURF after he voluntarily left the forum). If this is something that causes you to be concerned about his character (that is my "interpretation" of you bringing this up) then I really question how well you know your moderator staff. A good portion of your moderators, and in fact the core group of people that brought this forum to life a couple of years ago, were all banned from another watch forum. This includes JJ, dman, gedanken, Uncle-AJ, myself, Atomic, Earl, Rockrolex, Padi, BruceS……. The people who were banned from that particular place all wear it as a badge of honour as you can see in this thread:

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=387

Sadly, reading through that thread I see a lot of familiar things happening here.

[Earl]

Personally I don't understand how this thread has lasted (stated open) so long. Steve the CEO or owner of this site has given his explanation on this issue and some of you still want to argue...... We (the MOD's) do our best for a forum we love or we would not be here. We all or most of us love Rolex and all watches and we do allow discussions on all brands of watches. Sorry just my observation. A poll is just that a poll, I don't feel people have to own up to how they voted by signing their name by their vote. (edited) hutchman, Avalon, and amanda your avatar's a "TRIBUTE 2 ATOMIC"? I guess all of you are very firm in your standing on this huh?

This was edited due to my having missed 3 members with the same avatar.

Earl

[hutchman]

Originally Posted by mrbieler

There are 3,044 members of this forum and you're waving around conspiracy theories because of the 28 who have voted (less then 1%) , 15 haven't voted your way?

You may be right Jeff. If there is 15 or more people here that think this forum is better without atomic I'm sorry but I can't imagine that being a true reflection of the TRF population.

[Launch Mini]

The avatar is a tribute.
IMO, to someone who made many posts, help establish this place, held a GTG.......

[Earl]

Originally Posted by Launch Mini

The avatar is a tribute.
IMO, to someone who made many posts, help establish this place, held a GTG.......

Tributes are for the 9-11 lost, military members dying, to fallen hero's. A tribute to Atomic for posting? helping to establish this place? held a GTG?

Posting is a personal thing and requires no public acknowledgement (even tho JJ got one for reaching high post count) such as a tribute, we all helped to establish this place in our postings not just him, GTG's are good all around fun, our lost after 9-11 was a national tragedy, a tribute to the people who suffered or died for those still inside the towers now there is something worth a tribute to hero's and not just a person. Take it for what's it's worth.

my 2 cents

Earl

[astcell]

The mods can change the voting numbers anytime they so choose, don't necessarily believe they are accurate.

[fat-sam]

Originally Posted by Earl

Tributes are for the 9-11 lost, military members dying, to fallen hero's. A tribute to Atomic for posting? helping to establish this place? held a GTG?

Posting is a personal thing and requires no public acknowledgement (even tho JJ got one for reaching high post count) such as a tribute, we all helped to establish this place in our postings not just him, GTG's are good all around fun, our lost after 9-11 was a national tragedy, a tribute to the people who suffered or died for those still inside the towers now there is something worth a tribute to hero's and not just a person. Take it for what's it's worth.

my 2 cents

Earl

whoa!
to be fair, the mans holding a tribute to a freind who was/is a big part of this board, that guilt trip is a bit ott, no?

i am new to the board and like all involved so i am not sticking my oar in but bringing up the 9-11 thing is a bit dramatic.

[Earl]

Originally Posted by astcell

The mods can change the voting numbers anytime they so choose, don't necessarily believe they are accurate.

Robert, I don't think this needed to be said, although I don't know how true it is but, regardless what you just stated needed not to have been said here and now. You need not to insert dis-trust into this, we the Mord's try very hard to maintain an interesting and fun forum.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by astcell

The mods can change the voting numbers anytime they so choose, don't necessarily believe they are accurate.

Afraid who ever told you that is 100% wrong Robert and you should be ashamed to state it,mods or admin cannot repeat cannot alter a poll vote in anyway.

[astcell]

Well I know that there are permissions in the software that will allow numbers to be manually inserted. Maybe only the owner has permissions to that and he has not given it to the mods. I do not know what the practices are here at TRF. I am still learning a lot as are all of us. Thank you for the clarification.

[Launch Mini]

In no way was I comparing Atomic to 9 11.
I can't drive home without seeing half a dozen "tributes" along the side of the road for one thing or another.
I have a neighbour who has a permantent tribute in front of there house for someone who did not perish in 9 11
That was the furthest thing from my mind.
People get tattoo's all the time as a tribute to friends.
Sorry for any impied reference to a terrible incident that should never be forgotten.
Any time some one raises a glass for a toast, is that not a tribute to someone/something.
I was going to leave this alone, but someone pulled me back.
Maybe I am being "baited" like other people have been.

[Earl]

Originally Posted by fat-sam

whoa!
to be fair, the mans holding a tribute to a freind who was/is a big part of this board, that guilt trip is a bit ott, no?

i am new to the board and like all involved so i am not sticking my oar in but bringing up the 9-11 thing is a bit dramatic.

!! Sammy "but bringing up the 9-11 thing is a bit dramatic" paying Tribute 2 Atomic is dramatic and petty in my mind.

This is a watch forum and if any one asks you tell them" This watch? Rolex why? you ask am I afraid to wear it and get it dirty or dented or broken? No it's a Rolex like I already said! ;o) a Tribute YEAH to Rolex!!!

Earl

[astcell]

When I think of Atomic I do not think of tributes, I think of his little sticker on his car and many of the photos he contributed. In fact he is the one who swayed me to get PAM119 while in Doha.

[Earl]

No mini I was not baiting you but, if you feel you were pulled back in even tho you were going to leave it alone then why did you come back and respond in the way you have if not to get a response from me or another mod?

Thanks Peter I didn't think we could change the post or the poll count as Robert started.
Earl

[President]

Uhoh - a tie.

[roadcarver]

When I think of Atomic, I remember him as the person who got the Toronto GTG off the ground and boy was that a night to remember.

He's the person that gave me advice on what to do with the free Panerai strap that I got from the GTG. Raffle it out as a prize for some contest at the board or sell it and give my lil son a gift. In the end, I gave it to a Carlo of Panersiti

[President]

He's one of us, guys! Come on!

[astcell]

[hutchman]

Originally Posted by roadcarver

When I think of Atomic, I remember him as the person who got the Toronto GTG off the ground and boy was that a night to remember.

He's the person that gave me advice on what to do with the free Panerai strap that I got from the GTG. Raffle it out as a prize for some contest at the board or sell it and give my lil son a gift. In the end, I gave it to a Carlo of Panersiti

Oh ya was that ever a night! Atomic sure can't hold his liquor though!

[amanda]

I am using the Avatar because I personally really like John (Atomic) he's a nice guy.. gave me lots of advice on Panerai and we've discussed our partners and our watch hobbies many times. I think he's a great guy and I'd like him to still be on this forum.... he never belittled me for anything I've ever said on TRF, he treated me with respect... that says something to ME. I know other people may have a different impression about him, but I'm talking about how I feel.

Anyways thats my take on why I have his little logo as an Avatar - not too mention I like the graphic, it's Panerai afterall.

I dont think comparing this to 9-11 is very fair at all.... I'm sorry Earl but I just dont think that needed to be said... Launch Mini is also a really good guy, he keeps his opinions mostly to himself and treats people on TRF with honour and respect, I just think that was a bit much to say that to him.

It's just a picture... when Atomic was banned you have to take the flack that goes with that decision. Atomic had friends on here, its only natural for those people to be disappointed with the decision and to want to understand why this happened. At the end of the day the majority of you would hope that your friends on TRF would stand up for you like we are for Atomic.

Ok that's my 2 cents worth.

[Alcan]

Originally Posted by amanda

At the end of the day the majority of you would hope that your friends on TRF would stand up for you.

Amanda, that is the essence of a forum that attracts like-minded people.

[Lol-x]

Avalon

You call me a liar, to provoke a response, or are you just trying to be classy, whatever you didn't address the issue, I said that a forum is made up of the sum of its members, if Atomic denigrates the forum he denigrates the members.

When Atomic was banned he was given an explanation from the relevant moderator. Atomic wanted more reasons, no more reasons were required.

Apart from that as it turns out Atomic showed his true colours in purely using the forum not to contribute in any meaningful way but with his own personal dishonest intentions. He didn't mainly use to the forum to interact with his friends" as you choose to put it he only used the forum for his own dishonest intentions:
Quote Atomic: "If you think I'm mad about being banned, think again. I've disliked TRF for months now and only stayed to interact with some friends... friends whom I've 'stolen' away to another forum now. :)"

You can read what he said "only". Please speak the truth.

Whilst were talking about honesty, what is your purpose on this forum?

If someone doesn't give you an answer you like, I take it from your approval of Atomics reply to me in calling me an a-hole that you would approve of the use profanity as an appropriate response. You see on this forum, I don't approve of that type of language being used by one member to another.

Atomic has said elsewhere that he is happy to be banned, is that what you want for yourself, would you be happy being banned too, just a question, not a threat, because if that's the way you feel then you shouldn't need that to be done, you can just turn off your computer or go somewhere else in cyberspace.

Bringing up Atomic's banning from the other forum was not a matter of painting Atomic in a negative light. Please consider that the moderators here have made a point to be philosophically opposite to those on the other forum, and yet both have reached the same conclusion about Atomic. If both sides can hardly agree with each other, how can they agree about Atomic if the source of the problem was with the moderators rather than with Atomic? After all, he's the only common element in this equation. Also many of the moderators here have been banned from that other forum, and what about other forums apart from the one mentioned, what happened there, do you know the facts?

[amanda]

Originally Posted by Alcan

Amanda, that is the essence of a forum that attracts like-minded people.

Thats right. At the end of the day I dont want to be labelled 'difficult or as stirrer' for merely saying that I liked someone that used to be able to be a part of TRF

[Mink]

Is anyone really surprised by John's banning? It's basically history repeating itself for the 4th time if I remember correctly. John has been banned from every other Rolex forum on the net - why should TRF be the only exception?

His MO, as well as I can remember, goes something like - register on a forum, make friends for about 1 to 3 years, get an attitude over something too small to matter (it's the principle of the thing!), argue with the mod staff after being told to calm down, point fingers, call names and ultimately get banned.

I'm not trying to grind any axe or stir any s**t - I'm just pointing out some of my observations. My own personal feelings toward John are extremely ambivalent.

One last observation - Considering John's MO and history, I find the "Tribute 2 Atomic" avatars rather symbolic and somewhat ironic.

Keep up the good work mod staff - 1 down, 2 to go! - good luck.

- Mink -

Originally Posted by Mink

I'm not trying to grind any axe or stir any s**t

Now that is the funniest thing I have read in this thread yet!

Yep, move along people, no agenda to see here.....LOL! Thanks for the comic relief!

Originally Posted by padi56

Afraid who ever told you that is 100% wrong Robert and you should be ashamed to state it,mods or admin cannot repeat cannot alter a poll vote in anyway.

Regular mods can't change poll results, but according to this discussion on the vBulletin forum the Admin and "Super mods" can alter vote results. I'm not saying that is happening here, but it is possible according to the people at vBulletin.

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showt...=206636&page=2

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Avalon

You call me a liar, to provoke a response, or are you just trying to be classy, whatever you didn't address the issue, I said that a forum is made up of the sum of its members, if Atomic denigrates the forum he denigrates the members.

When Atomic was banned he was given an explanation from the relevant moderator. Atomic wanted more reasons, no more reasons were required.

Apart from that as it turns out Atomic showed his true colours in purely using the forum not to contribute in any meaningful way but with his own personal dishonest intentions. He didn't mainly use to the forum to interact with his friends" as you choose to put it he only used the forum for his own dishonest intentions:
Quote Atomic: "If you think I'm mad about being banned, think again. I've disliked TRF for months now and only stayed to interact with some friends... friends whom I've 'stolen' away to another forum now. :)"

You can read what he said "only". Please speak the truth.

Whilst were talking about honesty, what is your purpose on this forum?

If someone doesn't give you an answer you like, I take it from your approval of Atomics reply to me in calling me an a-hole that you would approve of the use profanity as an appropriate response. You see on this forum, I don't approve of that type of language being used by one member to another.

Atomic has said elsewhere that he is happy to be banned, is that what you want for yourself, would you be happy being banned too, just a question, not a threat, because if that's the way you feel then you shouldn't need that to be done, you can just turn off your computer or go somewhere else in cyberspace.

Bringing up Atomic's banning from the other forum was not a matter of painting Atomic in a negative light. Please consider that the moderators here have made a point to be philosophically opposite to those on the other forum, and yet both have reached the same conclusion about Atomic. If both sides can hardly agree with each other, how can they agree about Atomic if the source of the problem was with the moderators rather than with Atomic? After all, he's the only common element in this equation. Also many of the moderators here have been banned from that other forum, and what about other forums apart from the one mentioned, what happened there, do you know the facts?

Steve,

This exchange gets more bizarre all the time, so I am going to attempt to make my position as clear as possible for you. You are of the opinion that several things Atomic said to you about the way TRF is run means that he had negative feelings about TRF members in general. I understand that point completely, but I also disagree completely with that conclusion, and certainly I disagree with the way that you have relayed "your conclusion" as "fact" in this thread. In this thread you stated he made statements that were vulgar and profane about the vast majority of members. The fact that you take his statements to mean something that they didn't actually say, and use them to condemn him is not honest in my opinion.

You continue to jump to conclusions without fact, and I find that very disturbing. For example you say this:

"Atomic showed his true colours in purely using the forum not to contribute in any meaningful way but with his own personal dishonest intentions"

When he was a member of this forum (before being baited and banned by your mods) he used the forum to stay in touch with friends and made posts about watches and other things, just like many people here do. He gave advice on Panerai's mainly, and made more meaningful posts than many on this forum have in the same time frame. How is this dishonest? You are also confused (or are intentionally obfuscating things) with regards to his "taking members away," because that happened after he was banned, so how could he even use this forum for that purpose? I'm sorry but your comments simply do not add up.

Here is another giant leap without logic:

"I take it from your approval of Atomics reply to me in calling me an a-hole that you would approve of the use profanity as an appropriate response"

No where did I approve of his calling you an a-hole or approve the use of profanity on this forum. I don't know where you get these conclusions from. I acknowledged his use of profanity because I do not deny the facts. I understand that he was angry at being betrayed and by not getting a reasonable explanation as to why he was banned - that's all I said but true to form, you jump to conclusions and make a claim that I approve......when it's quite simply a dishonest approach that I am seeing repeated over and over by you.

And to top it off you judge my "purpose on this forum" based on this one single debate alone? I'm sorry that is just not on.

Your refusal to stick to facts and your preference to provide speculation, interpretation, and conjecture tells me there is little point in continuing this debate with you.

[Earl]

"Now that is the funniest thing I have read in this thread yet!

Yep, move along people, no agenda to see here.....LOL! Thanks for the comic relief!"


Hmmmmm mink = 32 posts

I don't think mink has to worry about being to much of an insider.

Quote:
Originally Posted by padi56
Afraid who ever told you that is 100% wrong Robert and you should be ashamed to state it,mods or admin cannot repeat cannot alter a poll vote in anyway.

Regular mods can't change poll results, but according to this discussion on the vBulletin forum the Admin and "Super mods" can alter vote results. I'm not saying that is happening here, but it is possible according to the people at vBulletin.

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showt...=206636&page=2

"Quote:
Originally Posted by astcell
The mods can change the voting numbers anytime they so choose, don't necessarily believe they are accurate.

Robert, I don't think this needed to be said, although I don't know how true it is but, regardless what you just stated needed not to have been said here and now. You need not to insert dis-trust into this, we the Mod's try very hard to maintain an interesting and fun forum."

**** Avalon, heres what I said to astcell and your point is for bring this back up again? Even if you have it from the vbulletin.com forum Mark never gave us this status, Steve has not given us this status, and for you to want to make a point out of this to padi would be.... that your right, and we know squat?

We all used to have fun on this forum, it's not the members against the mods and never has been. Although I know some members do not like to be told they can or can not do certain things. As on any forum there are rules and ours have been very few! So when any one trys to push the limits someones feelings are going to get hurt.

It's enough for me to hear 1 mod say he followed up a demerit with an email telling the member why. This has be done to my satisfaction I have read the email, but, better yet I have a trusted MOD telling and showing me the email which was sent, I'm sorry Avalon but I believe him the MOD I guess this is where our trust breaks down you don't trust us to support the forum to run it in the best interests of it's members etc,etc. Do I have to go into all the yadi yadi yadi details?

I love this forum as does the owner or he would not have purchased it and I'm pleased he trusts me to assist him in moderating it. To which I'll do my best and keep on keeping on. :o)

Avalon, I do enjoy your posting here as I enjoy every member, I enjoy good debates, pictures, jokes, info, even dis-info.

I think we have supported this forum and it's members to the best of our abilities (my personal feeling and opinion) So, if you wish to support this forum or another one this is up to you. I know we (speaking for myself) do not wish to fight or call names but, if this forum continues to be disrupted then I would ask that more action be taken as to bring the forum back to a less stressfull and a more fun filled place.

Avalon, You think this can be done?

Earl