Got laughed at yesterday by my AD...

[frank gama]

Originally Posted by Tools

Next time ask for the watchmaker... He/she will know what you want and take care of you..

You can't really expect the sales staff to know as much about Rolex as they do anything else that the Jewelry Store carries... Rolex is not likely their main bread-and-butter..

x 2
I learnt this the hard way myself too. I now know the owners of the Ads or the watchmakers of the places I frequent. They are quite knowledgeable and helpful.

[CFUSION]

Isn't pressure testing a myth? I mean how DO you pressure test a watch? Also, if water did get in a rolex since there is no electricity, couldn't you just open it up, let it dry and re-oil it and it would keep on ticking? Not an expert just never seen a pressure tester before. LOL.

Also, all a pressure TEST does is see if its sealed in which case if it failed water would get inside, they would dry it, and replace the seals and test again. You can perform that yourself when you dive, if it leaks, take it to a dealer and have the seals replaced. Different test, same result. What I was talking about I guess is pressure sealing the watch. I don't believe that exists.

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by Tools

Next time ask for the watchmaker... He/she will know what you want and take care of you..

You can't really expect the sales staff to know as much about Rolex as they do anything else that the Jewelry Store carries... Rolex is not likely their main bread-and-butter..

Agreed. It doesn't absolve the sales staff of all responsibility, but many of them don't know Rolex as well as we do here on the forum. People assume they get proper training, but Rolex provides absolutely nothing on that front - no training material, no seminars, nothing. I found that out for myself when I started work at the shop - when it came to Rolex, the only information I could find out about the watches from Rolex's material was their names, the case sizes, water resistance, and dial and bracelet options. None of the history, no maintenance tips, not even how to set them up properly. I've had to rely on TRF and my own research for 95% of my product knowledge. My colleagues aren't necessarily as clued up about the watches as I am either, but that doesn't mean they're not excellent salespeople. The levels expected of salespeople here are simply unrealistic, especially when you have to know about other brands.

For example, where I work, I'm also expected to be able to sell:

*Diamonds (so I have to be able to explain the 4 Cs, the origin of the diamonds, production methods etc.) Three branded manufacturers, and I have to know information unique to them
*High end gold jewellery - two brands
*Silver jewellery - two brands, one split up into fashion jewellery and charm bracelets.
*Crystal jewellery - one brand, we have to know a lot about it as we're the UK's leading retailer for them
*Wedding rings - three brands
*Miscellaneous jewellery - various different gem set items, different gold grades, different materials. Anything goes - have to know what it is I'm handling
*Pens - one brand
*Men's Jewellery - one brand
*Other watch brands - have to know in great detail the lineups of Omega, Raymond Weil, Chronoswiss and Tissot. I'm also expected to know by customers about other brands to underline the fact I know a thing or two about watches.

It's impossible to be an expert in everything. I'll happily admit I don't know as much about gemstones as some of my colleagues. I'll happily admit that I'm not as capable of selling fashion jewellery as some of my colleagues. Does that make me a bad salesperson? Absolutely not, as product knowledge (although an important aspect) isn't the be all and end all of sales - the way you treat customers is just as important. I'm willing to put my hands up and say "I don't know" if a customer asks me a question I don't have an answer to, but I know I can rely on the help and expertise of my colleagues to find out. If everyone specialised in Rolex and nothing else, we'd be a pretty rubbish jewellery store. My advice is to find out the resident WIS if you want to deal with someone knowledgeable - it might be the manager, it might be a watchmaker, it might be a salesperson. Just don't expect the first person you walk up to be an encyclopaedia

Chris

[Dr. Robert]

If I was in the U.K. & in the position to buy a new Rolex, I'd buy it from Chris/The GMT master.

[Cru Jones]

great post, chris.

i don't envy your position/the position of stores that sell multiple products and multiple brands. especially since i can easily understand certain customer's expectations with respect to such expensive purchases, and how one bad or unrealistic experience can turn them off to the entire store forever.

not an easy line to walk. thankfully, not all customers are as demanding.

that being said, what happened here went beyond a simple "i don't know". the staff acted atrociously, and i have no sympathy for them. i mean, a customer comes in asking for a service to check the viability of his watch, and is told "your watch is waterproof". that's pretty ugly....

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

Agreed. It doesn't absolve the sales staff of all responsibility, but many of them don't know Rolex as well as we do here on the forum. People assume they get proper training, but Rolex provides absolutely nothing on that front - no training material, no seminars, nothing. I found that out for myself when I started work at the shop - when it came to Rolex, the only information I could find out about the watches from Rolex's material was their names, the case sizes, water resistance, and dial and bracelet options. None of the history, no maintenance tips, not even how to set them up properly. I've had to rely on TRF and my own research for 95% of my product knowledge. My colleagues aren't necessarily as clued up about the watches as I am either, but that doesn't mean they're not excellent salespeople. The levels expected of salespeople here are simply unrealistic, especially when you have to know about other brands.

For example, where I work, I'm also expected to be able to sell:

*Diamonds (so I have to be able to explain the 4 Cs, the origin of the diamonds, production methods etc.) Three branded manufacturers, and I have to know information unique to them
*High end gold jewellery - two brands
*Silver jewellery - two brands, one split up into fashion jewellery and charm bracelets.
*Crystal jewellery - one brand, we have to know a lot about it as we're the UK's leading retailer for them
*Wedding rings - three brands
*Miscellaneous jewellery - various different gem set items, different gold grades, different materials. Anything goes - have to know what it is I'm handling
*Pens - one brand
*Men's Jewellery - one brand
*Other watch brands - have to know in great detail the lineups of Omega, Raymond Weil, Chronoswiss and Tissot. I'm also expected to know by customers about other brands to underline the fact I know a thing or two about watches.

It's impossible to be an expert in everything. I'll happily admit I don't know as much about gemstones as some of my colleagues. I'll happily admit that I'm not as capable of selling fashion jewellery as some of my colleagues. Does that make me a bad salesperson? Absolutely not, as product knowledge (although an important aspect) isn't the be all and end all of sales - the way you treat customers is just as important. I'm willing to put my hands up and say "I don't know" if a customer asks me a question I don't have an answer to, but I know I can rely on the help and expertise of my colleagues to find out. If everyone specialised in Rolex and nothing else, we'd be a pretty rubbish jewellery store. My advice is to find out the resident WIS if you want to deal with someone knowledgeable - it might be the manager, it might be a watchmaker, it might be a salesperson. Just don't expect the first person you walk up to be an encyclopaedia

Chris

[padi56]

Originally Posted by KiKo

Yesterday I walked into a Mayors AD in my area and asked about getting my watch pressure tested. I was politely told that they do not have a watchmaker at their location. They then gave me the address to another Mayors nearby where they will do the pressure test.

So I arrive at location number two and it went a little something like this...

Sales Rep- "Hi welcome to Mayors. Is there anything I can help you with?"
Me- "Good morning. I'm looking to get my watch pressure tested"
Sales Rep- "What for?"
Me- "Well I recently purchased this preowned watch and I'd like to have it tested before I go in the water with it"
Sales Rep- laughs, calls another sales rep, then says "its a submariner.... Its waterproof"
Me- "I was sent here by another Mayors because you guys have a watchmaker onsite"
Sales Rep- "Submariners are watetproof. You shouldn't have a problem"
Me- "Alright forget it. Have a nice day"
Sales Rep- "I didn't mean to be nasty but..."

Thats all I heard since I was walking away as she said it. Just thought I'd share my recent experience with you guys to see what you think.

Well most any high-street watchmaker/repairer could to a dry pressure test up to 200m on any watch its not rocket science.And if watch passes the 200m dry test it will be fine for all normal in water use.

[usbzoso]

Sales reps sounds pretty clueless ... should have asked to talk to their manager

[KiKo]

Originally Posted by Tools

Next time ask for the watchmaker... He/she will know what you want

I understand that the sales people might not be as knowledgable as the people on TRF, but I told her I was sent there by another Mayors because they have a watchmaker. She could have spent less time speaking nonsense and just called the watchmaker over for me

[Route 66]

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

Agreed. It doesn't absolve the sales staff of all responsibility, but many of them don't know Rolex as well as we do here on the forum. People assume they get proper training, but Rolex provides absolutely nothing on that front - no training material, no seminars, nothing. I found that out for myself when I started work at the shop - when it came to Rolex, the only information I could find out about the watches from Rolex's material was their names, the case sizes, water resistance, and dial and bracelet options. None of the history, no maintenance tips, not even how to set them up properly. I've had to rely on TRF and my own research for 95% of my product knowledge. My colleagues aren't necessarily as clued up about the watches as I am either, but that doesn't mean they're not excellent salespeople. The levels expected of salespeople here are simply unrealistic, especially when you have to know about other brands.

For example, where I work, I'm also expected to be able to sell:

*Diamonds (so I have to be able to explain the 4 Cs, the origin of the diamonds, production methods etc.) Three branded manufacturers, and I have to know information unique to them
*High end gold jewellery - two brands
*Silver jewellery - two brands, one split up into fashion jewellery and charm bracelets.
*Crystal jewellery - one brand, we have to know a lot about it as we're the UK's leading retailer for them
*Wedding rings - three brands
*Miscellaneous jewellery - various different gem set items, different gold grades, different materials. Anything goes - have to know what it is I'm handling
*Pens - one brand
*Men's Jewellery - one brand
*Other watch brands - have to know in great detail the lineups of Omega, Raymond Weil, Chronoswiss and Tissot. I'm also expected to know by customers about other brands to underline the fact I know a thing or two about watches.

It's impossible to be an expert in everything. I'll happily admit I don't know as much about gemstones as some of my colleagues. I'll happily admit that I'm not as capable of selling fashion jewellery as some of my colleagues. Does that make me a bad salesperson? Absolutely not, as product knowledge (although an important aspect) isn't the be all and end all of sales - the way you treat customers is just as important. I'm willing to put my hands up and say "I don't know" if a customer asks me a question I don't have an answer to, but I know I can rely on the help and expertise of my colleagues to find out. If everyone specialised in Rolex and nothing else, we'd be a pretty rubbish jewellery store. My advice is to find out the resident WIS if you want to deal with someone knowledgeable - it might be the manager, it might be a watchmaker, it might be a salesperson. Just don't expect the first person you walk up to be an encyclopaedia

Chris

It's certainly true as Chris stated that a salesperson can't be an expert in every area of the merchandise they sell but that still doesn't justify rudeness on the part of that salesperson.

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by Stevarn

It's certainly true as Chris stated that a salesperson can't be an expert in every area of the merchandise they sell but that still doesn't justify rudeness on the part of that salesperson.

Courtesy should be a salesperson's number one priority, regardless of what they're selling

[evanvito]

Very bad customer service

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by CFUSION

Isn't pressure testing a myth? I mean how DO you pressure test a watch? Also, if water did get in a rolex since there is no electricity, couldn't you just open it up, let it dry and re-oil it and it would keep on ticking? Not an expert just never seen a pressure tester before. LOL.

Also, all a pressure TEST does is see if its sealed in which case if it failed water would get inside, they would dry it, and replace the seals and test again. You can perform that yourself when you dive, if it leaks, take it to a dealer and have the seals replaced. Different test, same result. What I was talking about I guess is pressure sealing the watch. I don't believe that exists.

Haha,funniest reply today.

Sounds like it's time you start educate yourself about Rolex.

[Art 1]

Odd.

[77T]

Originally Posted by KiKo

I understand that the sales people might not be as knowledgable as the people on TRF, but I told her I was sent there by another Mayors because they have a watchmaker. She could have spent less time speaking nonsense and just called the watchmaker over for me

I agree with you. But IMHO, the comments by others about "avoiding all AD's" are off-base.

I think you experienced giant chain store mentality (67 Birks&Mayors stores in North America) + an emphasis on hiring "saletrons" who close deals vs. a true Rolex AD philosophy.

The Birks and Getz families who founded the original jewelry stores would roll over in their graves if they could see the insensitivity displayed towards you.

I know Mayor's well - in the 1960's their downtown Miami store was a hallmark of fine jewelry and service. Birks' reputation was the same in Canada and the Northern US. Both were founded by families and held for 3 generations or more before corporate mergers created what we see today.

So that's where things begin to go wrong in my opinion...

Here in ATL the old Maier & Berkele chain was bought by Mayor's and we saw service drop-off as corporate management replaced the original family-hired staff over time.

Here is what I recommend to those painting all AD's with the same brush - try a smaller AD that is still run by the founding family. Here in N. Georgia, 2 come to mind: Tara Fine Jewelry & LeeBrant. I have dealt with their owners & staff - first class all the way. Because the staff is hired by the owners and they value repeat customers vs. Mall Traffic, you get a fine experience.

Just saying small, well-run AD's are worth trying vs. big-box AD's...well can't recommend that

[casadecamporolex]

My AD is in a small city and does not employ a watchmaker.
Asking a question like this would get a response like, "We could send it to RSC for this type of test."
What would you folks think of that?
Do you expect every AD to have a watchmaker on staff?

[77T]

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

Agreed. It doesn't absolve the sales staff of all responsibility, but many of them don't know Rolex as well as we do here on the forum. People assume they get proper training, but Rolex provides absolutely nothing on that front - no training material, no seminars, nothing. I found that out for myself when I started work at the shop - when it came to Rolex, the only information I could find out about the watches from Rolex's material was their names, the case sizes, water resistance, and dial and bracelet options. None of the history, no maintenance tips, not even how to set them up properly. I've had to rely on TRF and my own research for 95% of my product knowledge. My colleagues aren't necessarily as clued up about the watches as I am either, but that doesn't mean they're not excellent salespeople. The levels expected of salespeople here are simply unrealistic, especially when you have to know about other brands.

For example, where I work, I'm also expected to be able to sell:

*Diamonds (so I have to be able to explain the 4 Cs, the origin of the diamonds, production methods etc.) Three branded manufacturers, and I have to know information unique to them
*High end gold jewellery - two brands
*Silver jewellery - two brands, one split up into fashion jewellery and charm bracelets.
*Crystal jewellery - one brand, we have to know a lot about it as we're the UK's leading retailer for them
*Wedding rings - three brands
*Miscellaneous jewellery - various different gem set items, different gold grades, different materials. Anything goes - have to know what it is I'm handling
*Pens - one brand
*Men's Jewellery - one brand
*Other watch brands - have to know in great detail the lineups of Omega, Raymond Weil, Chronoswiss and Tissot. I'm also expected to know by customers about other brands to underline the fact I know a thing or two about watches.

It's impossible to be an expert in everything. I'll happily admit I don't know as much about gemstones as some of my colleagues. I'll happily admit that I'm not as capable of selling fashion jewellery as some of my colleagues. Does that make me a bad salesperson? Absolutely not, as product knowledge (although an important aspect) isn't the be all and end all of sales - the way you treat customers is just as important. I'm willing to put my hands up and say "I don't know" if a customer asks me a question I don't have an answer to, but I know I can rely on the help and expertise of my colleagues to find out. If everyone specialised in Rolex and nothing else, we'd be a pretty rubbish jewellery store. My advice is to find out the resident WIS if you want to deal with someone knowledgeable - it might be the manager, it might be a watchmaker, it might be a salesperson. Just don't expect the first person you walk up to be an encyclopaedia

Chris

Chris
Good points about having to know a broad range of products. And I'm sure you'd never treat a potential customer as described by the OP. But Rolex is not responsible for local sales training - in fact the AD is. Kudo's to you for self-educating yourself on the technical aspects.

BTW, here Rolex-USA has led the industry in providing funding for the training and education of watchmakers since 2000 when it established multiple grants worth $USD Millions to University programs. In 2001, Rolex established its own Lititz Watch Technicum, a not-for-profit foundation, that has already graduated more than 50 watchmakers for the industry.

[Onikage]

Why would anyone pressure test a watch? To be sure the seal was still capable. Not because you wanted to know if it was infact waterproof. The prats!

[Onikage]

Let me rephrase that; Why would anyone pressure test a Submariner? To be sure the seals were still ok. Not because you wanted to know if Submariners are infact waterproof. Tch!

[Onikage]

I'm a little anti AD at the moment. I think the problem is Rolex owners in general want everything to run smoothly. :D
Forgive me GMT master. I've read your post.

[George Ab]

There is an art to working around people to accomplish what is needed. In this case, "Could I speak with your watchmaker?".

[Tools]

Originally Posted by CFUSION

Isn't pressure testing a myth? I mean how DO you pressure test a watch? Also, if water did get in a rolex since there is no electricity, couldn't you just open it up, let it dry and re-oil it and it would keep on ticking? Not an expert just never seen a pressure tester before. LOL.

Also, all a pressure TEST does is see if its sealed in which case if it failed water would get inside, they would dry it, and replace the seals and test again. You can perform that yourself when you dive, if it leaks, take it to a dealer and have the seals replaced. Different test, same result. What I was talking about I guess is pressure sealing the watch. I don't believe that exists.

I'm going to assume that this is a legitimate response and you are simply unfamiliar with a mechanical watch and a pressure test..

If water gets into the watch, the bare metal inside will begin to rust almost immediately.. also the dial paints and metals will corrode, so, no... you cannot just "open it up, let it dry and re-oil it.."

A pressure test not only ensures that the watch is properly sealed from dust and water, it also applies a vacuum/pressure to a theoretical depth to ensure that those same seals hold under the pressures expected to be found at the watches rated depth..

It is not a myth and something that every "waterproof" watch should have periodically

[Abid]

Wow! Not good at all, and I thought Tourneau was bad.

[dieseldragon]

Originally Posted by CFUSION

Isn't pressure testing a myth? I mean how DO you pressure test a watch? Also, if water did get in a rolex since there is no electricity, couldn't you just open it up, let it dry and re-oil it and it would keep on ticking? Not an expert just never seen a pressure tester before. LOL.

Also, all a pressure TEST does is see if its sealed in which case if it failed water would get inside, they would dry it, and replace the seals and test again. You can perform that yourself when you dive, if it leaks, take it to a dealer and have the seals replaced. Different test, same result. What I was talking about I guess is pressure sealing the watch. I don't believe that exists.

BAN HIM BAN HIM BAN HIM BAN HIM

[rolexsweep]

that is just horrid... if i wanted a pressure test i would honestly walk into a normal jeweller with a watchmaker on site, a pressure test is just a pressure test and many watch repair places or jewellers have the machine to do it.

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by 77T

Chris
Good points about having to know a broad range of products. And I'm sure you'd never treat a potential customer as described by the OP. But Rolex is not responsible for local sales training - in fact the AD is. Kudo's to you for self-educating yourself on the technical aspects.

BTW, here Rolex-USA has led the industry in providing funding for the training and education of watchmakers since 2000 when it established multiple grants worth $USD Millions to University programs. In 2001, Rolex established its own Lititz Watch Technicum, a not-for-profit foundation, that has already graduated more than 50 watchmakers for the industry.

They're certainly not making the lives of ADs easy, especially compared to other brands. The material Omega currently provides, for example, is much better - their master catalogue is comprehensive. It gives you prominent features of model families, a bit of the run down of the history, and a complete run down of every single movement they have in their range (quite a few, as it turns out! ). Even so, it can be difficult, especially for independents. You'd expect the big chains to have the resources to spare on preparing their own material and training routines, but for independents, it can be much more difficult. I think that was part of the problem for me - the most knowledgeable members of staff w/ regards to Rolex were the MDs (who are often too busy running the administrative side of the business to help out) and the repair staff, who had different rotas to me. However, if I'd have had some kind of reference material, I could have worked on it in my own time without scouring the internet - luckily, I had the time to do that, and had a genuine interest in it. Could you really expect every member of staff to spend hours on the computer looking for info on Rolex? It might be a non-WIS' nightmare for all we know!

In any case, I believe Rolex should take more of an interest in the people on the front lines. They're attempting to shift their position in the market, people are wanting to know more than ever why Rolex is so expensive, and they're facing a big challenge from other brands who are training sales staff. A sales assistant is the first point of contact when buying a Rolex, and if they're not up to the job, it can put people off. I've had several customers buy one from me because they've been unhappy with the service elsewhere, not only rudeness/pushiness, but also stretching the truth, and spreading misinformation. I can't help but feel underprepared sales staff are beginning to cause problems - the number of complaints here are testament to that. It upsets me too, as I love what I'm doing - to hear people completely write off ADs because of it is really disappointing. Would it be such a bad thing to ensure every member of staff at an AD had a strong basic knowledge before being unleashed on customers? People are so cut-throat these days, if anything, it's to give the sales staff half a chance!

Rolex has a great product, and great advertisement: all it needs now is a consistently good sales force to really move the company forward. It wouldn't take a massive amount of effort, yet it would make a big, big difference

[SPARTAN2161]

Sounds irogant. They dont know anything about how old the gaskets are and how they have been treated prior to your ownership. My best advice is find a watchmaker that is trained in Rolex thats not an AD. They will like you as a customer and treat you with respect. The best thing i ever did for my watches was stop going to and AD. Like TOOLS said they dont know the difference between a Rolex and a Timex. They just sell them and take your money. Its frustrating even trying to talk to them about there models. This site should be required reading materials for AD sales associates lol.

[threemonkeys]

Originally Posted by Dr. Robert

Write a good old letter......Rolex is old school......make it long, express
your likes, dislikes....disgust etc. & send, via certified mail, one copy to Rolex USA/N.Y.C.
& one to their HQ in Geneva....it's a little work & will cost postage, but it
would be interesting to see if they respond to you?
Lucky I have a good watchmaker as I only deal w/ the trusted TRF sellers:
who are smart, very nice, polite, professional, knowledgeable & good looking.

x2. What a bunch of frickin' idiots.

[bewithabob]

arrogance. that is a great way to earn loyalty.

[ingoodtime]

Originally Posted by Rollie2011

Wow that stinks...

I also live in FL and Mayors is the only AD in my area...

Would you mind saying which location you visited so that I can avoid it?
PM if you like.

I'd rather drive to a location further away than support bad customer service

Drive to JR Dunn in north east broward county. I bought a Rolex from them. The salesperson was nice, knowledgeable and Mr Dunn came and thanked me for my business. All with a fair deal. Mayors is a volume machine and despite some of our experiences, they have inventoy
and manage to bring people in although in my experience, a discount is not a hapening event there.
Bottom line is, i always get the feeling they could not care less if you buy or don't buy imho.

[witch watch]

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

They're certainly not making the lives of ADs easy, especially compared to other brands. The material Omega currently provides, for example, is much better - their master catalogue is comprehensive. It gives you prominent features of model families, a bit of the run down of the history, and a complete run down of every single movement they have in their range (quite a few, as it turns out! ). Even so, it can be difficult, especially for independents. You'd expect the big chains to have the resources to spare on preparing their own material and training routines, but for independents, it can be much more difficult. I think that was part of the problem for me - the most knowledgeable members of staff w/ regards to Rolex were the MDs (who are often too busy running the administrative side of the business to help out) and the repair staff, who had different rotas to me. However, if I'd have had some kind of reference material, I could have worked on it in my own time without scouring the internet - luckily, I had the time to do that, and had a genuine interest in it. Could you really expect every member of staff to spend hours on the computer looking for info on Rolex? It might be a non-WIS' nightmare for all we know!

In any case, I believe Rolex should take more of an interest in the people on the front lines. They're attempting to shift their position in the market, people are wanting to know more than ever why Rolex is so expensive, and they're facing a big challenge from other brands who are training sales staff. A sales assistant is the first point of contact when buying a Rolex, and if they're not up to the job, it can put people off. I've had several customers buy one from me because they've been unhappy with the service elsewhere, not only rudeness/pushiness, but also stretching the truth, and spreading misinformation. I can't help but feel underprepared sales staff are beginning to cause problems - the number of complaints here are testament to that. It upsets me too, as I love what I'm doing - to hear people completely write off ADs because of it is really disappointing. Would it be such a bad thing to ensure every member of staff at an AD had a strong basic knowledge before being unleashed on customers? People are so cut-throat these days, if anything, it's to give the sales staff half a chance!

Rolex has a great product, and great advertisement: all it needs now is a consistently good sales force to really move the company forward. It wouldn't take a massive amount of effort, yet it would make a big, big difference

Chris if there were more salespeople like yourself, there would be a whole lot less AD bashing...and that just comes from your demeanor not your knowledge