Got a ticket today

[kareemthedream33]

I'm with you, Ed Rooney. If you think you are correct then go to court and use the system. If he shows up and you lose then so be it, you had a chance to tell your side and you can pay the $90.

It's the principle. If you feel he was wrong, then attempt to get justice through the system, maybe it works and maybe not.

[NiceRide]

Trial by written declaration an option? That would be best course of action. No time wasted waiting in an overburdened courtroom.

[Ed Rooney]

Originally Posted by Widows Son

Stop calling us cops, we're police officers!!!!

Just as soon as you guys dispense of all of the nicknames you have for some folks ;)

[Tri-Tip]

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Good thing we didn't feel that way when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

Originally Posted by Grumpy Badger

Errr, that might have been the JAPANESE!

I know where you are coming from wanting to fight it but you'll probably expend a lot of energy and emotion and be very lucky to get satisfaction.

Good luck!

Someone needs to watch Animal House again...

[MoBe]

Go to court because at the very least you have the chance that the cop won`t show and if he does then you can tell your side of story which in this case sounds clear cut and obvious.

Sometimes cops hand out tickets for no good reason,even when the law does not support the charge,just because they can,in other words cops like to behave as if they are the law themselves and can make it up as they go along.

Don`t let this one get away with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Remember,if you don`t go to court you have no chance at all to set the record straight.

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Good thing we didn't feel that way when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

Nice Animal House reference!

After 22 years in patrol I will tell you these facts.

I never had a quota. However if between calls and not doing follow up you were required to be pro active and do self initiated activity. Now what you do throughout your shift is documented well by computer print out for your supervisor to see. Yes we do have better things to do and if I saw an assault or a robbery being comitted right in front of me I would address that. However if that was not happening right then and there where I could see it or being sent on a call or being flagged down by somebody then I should be working doing something. Traffic enforcement is part of the job.

I almost always wrote warnings to people. Even those who were rude or argumentive with me. However if the violation was clear and the person was in denial about the purpose of the stop I might have been more inclined to write a citation. The purpose of traffic enforcement is to educate and gain compliance. If a person is not displaying to me that they can be educated and more careful with just a warning then they might get their day in court.

I hated going to court and I can tell you that most cops do. We have to be there on time and sit around just like you ( usually on our days off or after working all night.) Hated it. We would get paid overtime if we were not on duty but I still hated it.

You are not teaching the officer a lesson by going to court. That is part of his/her job.

My tips on not getting a citation.

1. Be polite,

2. Never argue.

3. Apologize.

By the way some attorneys will tell you to never admit guilt when initially stopped as the officer will write your statements down on the back of the citation to refer to in court. I always did. Only because there was no way I was going to remember them 6 months later after two continuances sometimes with the person trying to see if I will show up or not. By the way if the officer does not show up that is not a slam dunk dismissal always. Sometimes the judge will grant the State a continuance if the officer cannot be there for some reason. Did I mention I hated court?

This does not always work and in your case if you really feel like you had not comitted a violation you want to plead your case with the officer right then and there. It is not the place. Court is.

A trully professional officer will know before they step out of the car and approach you if they are going to write you a ticket or give a warning. I tried to instill this in my trainees that not to let someone's attitude influence their decision. Cops are human though.

Good luck in court. I know this sucks for you.

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by MoBe

Go to court because at the very least you have the chance that the cop won`t show and if he does then you can tell your side of story which in this case sounds clear cut and obvious.

Sometimes cops hand out tickets for no good reason,even when the law does not support the charge,just because they can,in other words cops like to behave as if they are the law themselves and can make it up as they go along.

Don`t let this one get away with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Remember,if you don`t go to court you have no chance at all to set the record straight.

There was always a reason. I think people believe that we have no accountability whatsoever and they just hand us a badge and a gun and we can go ride around doing whatever we please. Not the case.

You are not setting the record straight. Maybe keeping your traffic record clean if you win. Nobody is going to herald this as a break through landmark case if you win in traffic court.

Officers nowadays are held more accountable, have higher educations and are highly trained. Not in all places and there are a few bad apples. Those officers get the press and make all look bad.



There was a reason per the officer according to the OP as to why he got pulled over. The OP does not agree with the citation. That is not unusual.

It is one tough thankless often no win sh--ty job that I would not want really recommend to anyone unless it was their true calling.

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by kareemthedream33

I'm with you, Ed Rooney. If you think you are correct then go to court and use the system. If he shows up and you lose then so be it, you had a chance to tell your side and you can pay the $90.

It's the principle. If you feel he was wrong, then attempt to get justice through the system, maybe it works and maybe not.

This I agree with.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

Nice Animal House reference!

After 22 years in patrol I will tell you these facts.

I never had a quota. However if between calls and not doing follow up you were required to be pro active and do self initiated activity. Now what you do throughout your shift is documented well by computer print out for your supervisor to see. Yes we do have better things to do and if I saw an assault or a robbery being comitted right in front of me I would address that. However if that was not happening right then and there where I could see it or being sent on a call then I should be working doing something. Traffic enforcement is part of the job.

I almost always wrote warnings to people. Even those who were rude or argumentive with me. However if the violation was clear and the person was in denial about the purpose of the stop I might have been more inclined to write a citation. The purpose of traffic enforcement is to educate and gain compliance. If a person is not displaying to me that they can be educated and more careful with just a warning then they might get their day in court.

I hated going to court and I can tell you that most cops do. We have to be there on time and sit around just like you ( usually on our days off or after working al night.) Hated it. We would get paid overtime if were not on duty but I still hated it.

You are not teaching the officer a lesson by going to court. That is part of his/her job.

My tips on not getting a citation.

1. Be polite,

2. Never argue.

3. Apologize.

By the way some attorneys will tell you to never admit guilt when initially stopped as the officer will write your statements down on the back of the citation to refer to in court. I always did. Only because there was no way I was going to remember them 6 months later after two continuances sometimes with the person trying to see if I will show up or not. By the way if the officer does not show up that is not a slam dunk dismissal always. Sometimes the judge will grant the State a continuance if the officer cannot be there for some reason. Did I mention I hated court?

This does not always work and in your case if you really feel like you had not comitted a violation you want to plead your case with the officer right then and there. It is not the place. Court is.

A trully professional officer will know before they step out of the car and approach you if they are going to write you a ticket or give a warning. I tried to instill this in my trainees that not to let someone's attitude influence their decision. Cops are human though.

Good luck in court. I know this sucks for you.

Very well put Tom and interesting to read about "the other side" aspect.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by sherwin

As much as I dislike traffic tickets... I say pay up and move on. If you do contest it, and the cop shows up, he will not only say, you semi stopped, but to further bolster his case, he will say, you ran the sign, along with some BS. At least thats the case with australian (perth) cops.

Had a mate's car that brake hose slipped off, the cop charged him with reckless driving, and yellow stickered his car.

If 'My brake hose slipped off' was his defense........

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

Nice Animal House reference!

After 22 years in patrol I will tell you these facts.

I never had a quota. However if between calls and not doing follow up you were required to be pro active and do self initiated activity. Now what you do throughout your shift is documented well by computer print out for your supervisor to see. Yes we do have better things to do and if I saw an assault or a robbery being comitted right in front of me I would address that. However if that was not happening right then and there where I could see it or being sent on a call then I should be working doing something. Traffic enforcement is part of the job.

I almost always wrote warnings to people. Even those who were rude or argumentive with me. However if the violation was clear and the person was in denial about the purpose of the stop I might have been more inclined to write a citation. The purpose of traffic enforcement is to educate and gain compliance. If a person is not displaying to me that they can be educated and more careful with just a warning then they might get their day in court.

I hated going to court and I can tell you that most cops do. We have to be there on time and sit around just like you ( usually on our days off or after working all night.) Hated it. We would get paid overtime if we were not on duty but I still hated it.

You are not teaching the officer a lesson by going to court. That is part of his/her job.

My tips on not getting a citation.

1. Be polite,

2. Never argue.

3. Apologize.

By the way some attorneys will tell you to never admit guilt when initially stopped as the officer will write your statements down on the back of the citation to refer to in court. I always did. Only because there was no way I was going to remember them 6 months later after two continuances sometimes with the person trying to see if I will show up or not. By the way if the officer does not show up that is not a slam dunk dismissal always. Sometimes the judge will grant the State a continuance if the officer cannot be there for some reason. Did I mention I hated court?

This does not always work and in your case if you really feel like you had not comitted a violation you want to plead your case with the officer right then and there. It is not the place. Court is.

A trully professional officer will know before they step out of the car and approach you if they are going to write you a ticket or give a warning. I tried to instill this in my trainees that not to let someone's attitude influence their decision. Cops are human though.

Good luck in court. I know this sucks for you.

Well said Tom.

You covered it all IMO.

[Grumpy Badger]

Originally Posted by Tri-Tip

Someone needs to watch Animal House again...

Originally Posted by Gaijin

Nice Animal House reference!

My Bad!

I've never seen it in my life but YouTube has educated me!

I should have known better from Ed but I've seen a lot of stupider comments on here that WEREN'T jokes!

Once again, Ed, I hope you get it sorted.

I'm interested that a few guys have said if you go to court you would have your own costs to pay but, even if you lost, you would only have to pay them the original $90...
I've been "done" once in the uk and was given a £60 fine and the letter stated I could take it to court but then, if I was found guilty, I could be fined £1000!
That really riled me on principle since it sounded tantamount to blackmail!
I paid the fine since I was as guilty as a guilty thing but, had I been innocent, I don't know what I'd have done. It struck me that our system stank like the southern end of a north-bound mule!

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Badger

My Bad!

I've never seen it in my life but YouTube has educated me!

I should have known better from Ed but I've seen a lot of stupider comments on there that WEREN'T jokes!

Once again, Ed, I hope you get it sorted.

I'm interested that a few guys have said if you go to court you would have your own costs to pay but, even if you lost, you would only have to pay them the original $90...
I've been "done" once in the uk and was given a £60 fine and the letter stated I could take it to court but then, if I was found guilty, I could be fined £1000!
That really riled me on principle since it sounded tantamount to blackmail!
I paid the fine since I was as guilty as a guilty thing but, had I been innocent, I don't know what I'd have done. It struck me that our system stank like the southern end of a north-bound mule!

That is wrong. Agree with you there. That is unfair and would cause a person to plea just to avoid being hit with a huge mark up in fine.

Often times if you plea prior to court it is an automatic bail/fine reduction. Once at court too if you plea the judge will almost always reduce the fine.

[masterserg]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

Nice Animal House reference!

After 22 years in patrol I will tell you these facts.

I never had a quota. However if between calls and not doing follow up you were required to be pro active and do self initiated activity. Now what you do throughout your shift is documented well by computer print out for your supervisor to see. Yes we do have better things to do and if I saw an assault or a robbery being comitted right in front of me I would address that. However if that was not happening right then and there where I could see it or being sent on a call or being flagged down by somebody then I should be working doing something. Traffic enforcement is part of the job.

I almost always wrote warnings to people. Even those who were rude or argumentive with me. However if the violation was clear and the person was in denial about the purpose of the stop I might have been more inclined to write a citation. The purpose of traffic enforcement is to educate and gain compliance. If a person is not displaying to me that they can be educated and more careful with just a warning then they might get their day in court.

I hated going to court and I can tell you that most cops do. We have to be there on time and sit around just like you ( usually on our days off or after working all night.) Hated it. We would get paid overtime if we were not on duty but I still hated it.

You are not teaching the officer a lesson by going to court. That is part of his/her job.

My tips on not getting a citation.

1. Be polite,

2. Never argue.

3. Apologize.

By the way some attorneys will tell you to never admit guilt when initially stopped as the officer will write your statements down on the back of the citation to refer to in court. I always did. Only because there was no way I was going to remember them 6 months later after two continuances sometimes with the person trying to see if I will show up or not. By the way if the officer does not show up that is not a slam dunk dismissal always. Sometimes the judge will grant the State a continuance if the officer cannot be there for some reason. Did I mention I hated court?

This does not always work and in your case if you really feel like you had not comitted a violation you want to plead your case with the officer right then and there. It is not the place. Court is.

A trully professional officer will know before they step out of the car and approach you if they are going to write you a ticket or give a warning. I tried to instill this in my trainees that not to let someone's attitude influence their decision. Cops are human though.

Good luck in court. I know this sucks for you.

Interesting read. Thanks for sharing the view from the other side as somebody put it above.

[meloncap78]

No way in the world would I pay that ticket. I have done I.T. work for 2 different local police departments in my area (still taking care of 1) and I know a few officers personally. I have a pretty good idea of how these things work from the inside perspective (lets just leave it at that). If you were stopped then you were obeying the law......PERIOD. That would be like finding a Rolex on the street and turning it into the police, the police finding out it was reported stolen, and then arresting you for possession of stolen goods. Pffffft, talk to the D.A. I still wouldn't get worked up over it, just know that you were in the right and calmly take care if the issue. In any event, good luck.

[rajurama]

In Dubai the traffic fines start from 200$ ! I had once passed the speed limit by 10km per hr and paid a 300$ radar fine!!! If a cop pulls you up here you could get anything from a 300$ fine to a month impoundment I would pay off the 90$ and move on! But again its me and when ever i was pulled over or given a ticket it was my fault, its hard to admit.
Good luck on your trial.

[dddrees]

Police officers are human as well, and they make mistakes also. Sounds like he goofed, unfortunately that mistake may cost you.

Wish you luck if you decide to go to court.

[Lion]

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Good thing we didn't feel that way when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

If I remember correctly the German's didn't bomb Pearl Harbor.....

[masterserg]

Originally Posted by Lion

If I remember correctly the German's didn't bomb Pearl Harbor.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI

[Lion]

Originally Posted by Widows Son

Stop calling us cops, we're police officers!!!!

I can think of another three letter word!!!

[Ed Rooney]

Originally Posted by Lion

I can think of another three letter word!!!

Whenever someone asked John McClain what he did, he always said, "I'm a cop." That's good enough for me.

[humvee]

compared to soldiers returning from real battle in afghanistan & Iraq, city cops are like bank security guards.....overweight
and not really willing to do much ......

[Widows Son]

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Whenever someone asked John McClain what he did, he always said, "I'm a cop." That's good enough for me.

You have an axe to grind so I won't spend too much time with this. John McClain was a fictional character, just like James Bond. The term "cop" comes from the old days when badges were made from copper. I don't like the term. I'm always polite to all I come in contact with. I still call people "sir, and mam." Always call the Clergy "Reverend, or Father," and when I go to the Doctor's office it's "Doctor." You get the point. I guess we were brought up differently. I'm 10-08 from this discussion prior to receiving my first infraction points. PS, Tom explained an officer's perspective very well.

[Esexx]

Also remember if you happen to be found guilty, you might have to pay court fees in addition to the $90 bail/fine.

I wouldn't count on the "cop" not showing up to court, it is their job as stated above.

Good luck though, if you are right it is worth going to court.

[derrick_lui]

Originally Posted by SaddleSC

It is amazing that you still choose to drive a German car...especially since they bombed Pearl Harbor, right?

Not to mention "the bad guys" makes the best cars now...Japanese, German and Italian.

[dalip]

Originally Posted by humvee

compared to soldiers returning from real battle in afghanistan & Iraq, city cops are like bank security guards.....overweight
and not really willing to do much ......

This is not ok. We have plenty of serving officers as members of trf as well as some that are now retired...Your post will be seriously testing their resolve.

Choose to make your points with a bit more thought from now on.

[Ed Rooney]

I feel that the nickname "cop" is firmly part of the english lexicon, and does not have any derogatory or disrespectful meaning. Having served in the National Guard, which is pretty much a police club, I knew police officers from all over MD, DC, and PA. They almost all introduced themselves as "cops" in casual conversation, as in, "I'm a DC cop", or "I'm a Capitol Hill cop".

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by humvee

compared to soldiers returning from real battle in afghanistan & Iraq, city cops are like bank security guards.....overweight
and not really willing to do much ......

Really? Were you in a radio car like me? 10 hours a day? No?


I have seen my co workers die and been faced with deadly force encounters numerous times.

Talking out of your I am guessing.

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by meloncap78

No way in the world would I pay that ticket. I have done I.T. work for 2 different local police departments in my area (still taking care of 1) and I know a few officers personally. I have a pretty good idea of how these things work from the inside perspective (lets just leave it at that). If you were stopped then you were obeying the law......PERIOD. That would be like finding a Rolex on the street and turning it into the police, the police finding out it was reported stolen, and then arresting you for possession of stolen goods. Pffffft, talk to the D.A. I still wouldn't get worked up over it, just know that you were in the right and calmly take care if the issue. In any event, good luck.

You have done some I.T. work for some local police departments. Thank you. This makes you an expert in knowing that if a person is stopped they are obeying the law? Period?

So this puts you in the patrol car shagging radio calls 10 hours a day?

The turned in Rolex reference? People turned in found and sometimes stolen articles to us everyday. We did not arrest the property finder.

Let's just keep on with the weak stereotypes. Why not..

[wantonebad]

so Back on topic here, people who speed or break the law end up in courts, they have some benefits over us in that they know how things work and how best to minipulate the system, is that fair? Is it right that an habitual offender can get off of a speeding ticket because s/he has been through it 7 times in the last three years but John Q. Taxpayer who has a clean driving record and gets pinched one time in 20 years has to pay $150.00 and have the surcharge on their insurance last 6 years? I say no, so fight any and ALL infractions that's my stance..

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

I think I've heard of this development, too, but I'm not too sure about how widespread it is at this time.

The US Constitution demands that the accused must be able to face his accuser in a court of law. There have been some ways to wriggle around that in some jurisdictions and in some cases, but I'm not very much up on that.

In Massachusetts the accused sits in front of a magistrate and Sargent who reads the charges, the magistrate decides guilt or innocence based on the sighting officers "notes" it's a joke. So you take a day off from work, the officer doesn't have to show, and your rubber stamped guilty 8-10 times.

You can appeal but most do not, some do and if you do the officer has to show and often does not.

Originally Posted by masterserg

I agree with the comment above. If the officer is there, you are done. My 2c ... just pay and be done with it ... Use the energy for something else ... I mean, you are not teaching anybody a lesson, nobody gives a cr@p either way (i am referring to the judge, the officer, etc.) it is just revenue for them ... so mind as well move on.

Has nothing to do with "teaching a lesson" or "righting a wrong" you're fighting hypocrisy, court inefficiency, and a system that is rigged to accommodate the masses rather then to give anyone a fair shake. JMHO

So how do I know all this, my college roommate, who is now a defense attourney, worked as an administrator for a lawyer who did nothing but defend traffic offenders in Massachusetts, a truly corrupt state as far as insurance, moving violations, and courts. The deals he was privy to, and the wink and a handshake quid-pro-quo that happened on a daily bassis solidified for me that i will never let a ticket stand, and I won't be held accountable for things people do EVERY single day!