Why is buying a car so hard/insulting?

[wantonebad]

Originally Posted by swils8610

I actually agree on the transparency in car buying. It would make it easier and more friendly for the consumer and dealer. I'm not sure how to accomplish it though. Oldsmobile, Saturn and Scion have all tried that and failed. It was one price set by the manufacturer with no discounts allowed. We had a dealer group in our area that went to a one price concept. All the vehicles were discounted and they negotiate at all. In the end it didn't work for them but was great for us!

Not really, I mean it wasn't truly transparent, I remember the Saturn attempt, and aside from the cars being ungodly ugly, unreliable and cheaply manufactured, no one trusted the invoices. It was poorly managed. Oldsmobile was dead 20 years before production ceased.

No honest solid attempt at open transparent pricing and sales has been made, I'd love to see it though.

[swils8610]

Well Tesla is giving it a shot. No dealers and the price is the price. It was def easier to make money pre Internet. The future will be interesting!

[swils8610]

What do you mean by transparent? There really is vey little transparency in any business. A supermarket doesn't tell you what they pay for a can of tomato soup, a gas station a gallon of gas or a Rolex AD a 116610. Maybe that's why the lack of transparency. I mean you have the price we pay from the manufacture...that's easy. Same as a Rolex AD would have for 116610. But then you have labor cost, advertising, employee expense, utilities and insurance to name a few. In most profitable dealerships and I mean the ones that make good money all departments need to be profitable. Sales, service, parts etc.

[wantonebad]

Originally Posted by swils8610

What do you mean by transparent? There really is vey little transparency in any business. A supermarket doesn't tell you what they pay for a can of tomato soup, a gas station a gallon of gas or a Rolex AD a 116610. Maybe that's why the lack of transparency. I mean you have the price we pay from the manufacture...that's easy. Same as a Rolex AD would have for 116610. But then you have labor cost, advertising, employee expense, utilities and insurance to name a few. In most profitable dealerships and I mean the ones that make good money all departments need to be profitable. Sales, service, parts etc.

Nope, no comparison for a can of soup and a car, doesn't work.

[linesiders]

I love buying cars - love the process and the haggle.


That said - make a Truecar account and leverage that. You will still get a good deal without the hassle.

Beyond that, show up on a Sunday at the end of the month, 90 minutes before closing time

[swils8610]

We may disagree on that! It boils down to a product to sell...soup, cars, computers, watches, clothing or whatever. The retailer has the cost they pay the manufacturer. Retailer tries to the sell the product at a profit. Retailer has a cost associated with selling the product. Same as soup. Supermarket buys truckloads of soup. They mark it up to make a profit. They have to pay employees, utilities, insurance, taxes whatever. The diff is people don't try to negotiate a can of soup!!

[swils8610]

You can't call Campbell's and buy a can of soup direct! You have to buy from the supermarket.

[bradj]

I bought my first new car while I was in the middle of the pacific ocean on a US Navy destroyer. I've never negotiated a car purchase in the dealership. I get annoyed with the hour it takes just to go in and pick it up.

[swils8610]

I hope no feelings are being hurt by this discussion. I enjoy this forum and how we can all express our opinions.

[chaisson]

I buy a new Accord every 2 to 3 years, my wife a CRV every 4 years (16 New Hondas to date) Just my 2 cents here. Find a good dealership you trust and doesn't have a high staff turnover. I've learned when buyer and seller develop a solid relationship it pretty much takes the BS out of the deal. Dealer profit makes sure he's around to take care of customers (I walk in, put my keys on the counter and am given a loaner when ever needed) Had a steering rack fail on my last Accord out of warranty, dealer service went to bat on my behalf with Honda and the rack supplied no charge. Always believe the guy that takes your money, is the guy that should take care of you.....

[locutus49]

My wife - herself in sales for years - and I actually enjoy negotiating with sales guys. We enjoy the back and forth and the rest of the game.

[swils8610]

Originally Posted by chaisson

I buy a new Accord every 2 to 3 years, my wife a CRV every 4 years (16 New Hondas to date) Just my 2 cents here. Find a good dealership you trust and doesn't have a high staff turnover. I've learned when buyer and seller develop a solid relationship it pretty much takes the BS out of the deal. Dealer profit makes sure he's around to take care of customers (I walk in, put my keys on the counter and am given a loaner when ever needed) Had a steering rack fail on my last Accord out of warranty, dealer service went to bat on my behalf with Honda and the rack supplied no charge. Always believe the guy that takes your money, is the guy that should take care of you.....

Very nice!! It's nice to hear some positive dealership feedback!

[TheVTCGuy]

OP, send a note to Danny 83, he will help you out and do it honestly

[swils8610]

Honestly??

[rouxeny]

I hate buying cars. Well, actually, I love getting a new car but I absolutely hate the process.

I've bought 6 in my lifetime, and the easiest by far was back in the day using auto-by-tel. The price was set, I walked in, and picked it up. I bought another after a few emails with a salesman, that wasn't that bad either.

However, most have been the usual back and forth, time wasting, "let me talk to my manager" BS which makes me crazy. When I finally got to the finance guy when I purchased my BMW, he congratulated me on having done a good job. He may have meant it as a compliment but I thought it was kind of rude. One Honda salesman actually accused me of taking money out of his family's mouth, to which I replied that he was trying to do the exact same to me.

I think that not only will the car-making industry be disrupted in the near future, but the sales/repair industry will also.

[jhilly8982]

Originally Posted by swils8610

What do you mean by transparent? There really is vey little transparency in any business. A supermarket doesn't tell you what they pay for a can of tomato soup, a gas station a gallon of gas or a Rolex AD a 116610. Maybe that's why the lack of transparency. I mean you have the price we pay from the manufacture...that's easy. Same as a Rolex AD would have for 116610. But then you have labor cost, advertising, employee expense, utilities and insurance to name a few. In most profitable dealerships and I mean the ones that make good money all departments need to be profitable. Sales, service, parts etc.

There are a lot more variables that make it less transparent than buying groceries. If you need to finance for instance. Credit score, loan rate, loan rate premium the dealer takes, term etc.

My rules for dealerships, if they try and pull the four square, I walk. I don't tell them what I want to pay per month or what I am putting down. This is where most of the profit massaging is done. I walk in pre-approved from my bank and if we come to an agreement I tell them if they can beat the interest rate by 15 basis points they can finance it. That being said, I usually do most of the negotiations via email with the internet sales manager. Saves a lot of hassle.

[Tri-Tip]

I've had good and bad experiences.

Worst was an empty Infiniti dealership that would not even talk to me unless I was ready to buy a car that night. Or the Chevy dealership that would not order the Corvette I wanted, would only sell me what they had in stock.

In both cases, I went elsewhere and received good service.

I prefer to buy near my home, so I start at a dealer a distance away so that I can push them and see what price they will let me walk out without a car, then I know the bottom line and go to the nearby dealership and cut the deal.

I always know the model, trim level, etc that I want and usually know much more about the car than the dealership does.

[Star Ferry]

Car dealerships, at least in my experience, have been difficult. I've been asked if I could really afford the car and also blatantly lied to about MSRP/invoice when I'd already confirmed the numbers online. I've never looked at a car that I couldn't afford to buy immediately with bank wire and have never demanded an especially great price, and yet the dealerships managed to consistently ruin an easy sale.

I think they prefer leasing/financing customers who will pay extra fees and keep the conversation in monthly payment and down payment terms - rather than true purchase price terms.

Only sale I ever completed was with an online auto broker - I paid a flat amount over invoice and was satisfied.

[Lawman77]

Totally...

Who finances cars anyways? Cash is king. Then again, I only buy luxury items if/when I have 60 months salary in the bank and at least 6 gold bars in the safe.

[1William]

Buying a car for me is about the vehicle I am buying and the price I will pay. Having purchased a number of luxury vehicle over the years I go to my local dealership and test drive the vehicle I believe I want to ensure it is everything I want it to be and that it actually works for me. No discussion about buying from the sales person at that point but will take his information so I can call him back once I have completed my shopping. I then do all my research on the vehicles that are available. I also look at the depreciation, service and warranty on both a new model and a certified pre-owned model. I then find the vehicle in my region that I want. It is a call to the dealership and the sales manager. A brief discussion to confirm that my information on the vehicle is correct and a price offer/discussion. If there are any games I hang up and move on. In the end I save both my time, money and frustration. I can't say that I always get my price but I do get what I believe to be a fair price.

[WhatTheDeuce]

All I know is buying a car is worse than going to a dentist. For me at least.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by wantonebad

nope, no comparison for a can of soup and a car, doesn't work.

x2...

[rolio]

I once had a salesman get so angry over the negotiation on price he literally threw the newspaper and coffee mug off the table onto the floor. He was young and obviously inexperienced. I was at least 20 years older than this kid. Mid-twenties, he was, and very impatient. And all along, I was being very pleasant. After a while of being made to feel ignorant by this saleskid, and the papers drawn up, ready to sign, I looked at him and said, "Sorry, in good conscience, I cannot deal with you, son. Have a good day." It was the last day of the month, and he wanted to make this deal badly. He even called me for three days after, but I located another car about 40 miles away and bought it.

[powerfunk]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

I think they prefer leasing/financing customers who will pay extra fees and keep the conversation in monthly payment and down payment terms

This absolutely seems to be true these days. Last car I bought, I had to repeatedly confirm that I was not financing. The salesman and finance guy seemed disappointed and slightly thrown off by that. Is it really so abnormal now to buy a car with actual money?

Sent from my 0PM92 using Tapatalk

[guelerct]

All dealerships are different and have different priorities based on their goals. In a good negotiation both sides win.
I took June 30th off and visited 3 dealerships knowing what car I wanted and where my trade and price needed to land. I was upfront and found a dealer looking to hit a quarterly quota and I drove it home that day feeling that the deal was as good as it would get.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by swils8610

You can't call Campbell's and buy a can of soup direct! You have to buy from the supermarket.

No, but I can call Campbell's and order a pallet or more direct. And I can negotiate directly with the factory on the price, delivery method, and delivery date. I can send my own truck to get it if I want as well.

Buying a car requires the customer to work with middle men whose only purpose in the process is to drive up the sales price by adding costs of real estate, office equipment, staffing, and ancillary operating expenses to the process. A truly transparent sale would allow me to buy direct from the factory, finance online, and have the car delivered to my driveway by the most expedient method. How much can be taken off the price of the car by eliminating the dealership from the process?

[bradj]

Originally Posted by powerfunk

Is it really so abnormal now to buy a car with actual money?

Sent from my 0PM92 using Tapatalk

It must be, the last few cars I've traded in were only a year or two old and when I informed the dealer I didn't owe anything on them I always get a shocked look looked and the question gets repeated.

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

No, but I can call Campbell's and order a pallet or more direct. And I can negotiate directly with the factory on the price, delivery method, and delivery date. I can send my own truck to get it if I want as well.

Buying a car requires the customer to work with middle men whose only purpose in the process is to drive up the sales price by adding costs of real estate, office equipment, staffing, and ancillary operating expenses to the process. A truly transparent sale would allow me to buy direct from the factory, finance online, and have the car delivered to my driveway by the most expedient method. How much can be taken off the price of the car by eliminating the dealership from the process?

Well said.

[123Blueface]

I don't mind the haggling but I guess it can be due to my my being very good at it based on past experience negotiating with body shops over agreed damages amounts as well as also having extensively negotiated with attorneys over bodily injury claim settlement values along the way in my 33 year career in the industry.

What I didn't note on this thread, unless I missed it, that really irks me when buying a new car is the added "dealer fees" at the end of the contract. I refuse to buy from a dealer that refuses to eliminate them or significantly reduce them. There are a number of dealers in my area that
No longer charge these fees as a way of competing with other dealers that do, and they list those other dealer's fees for all to see. In some cases, these fees run as high as $1,000. Just an added BS way of jacking back up the price already negotiated. My two cents.

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

No, but I can call Campbell's and order a pallet or more direct. And I can negotiate directly with the factory on the price, delivery method, and delivery date. I can send my own truck to get it if I want as well.

Buying a car requires the customer to work with middle men whose only purpose in the process is to drive up the sales price by adding costs of real estate, office equipment, staffing, and ancillary operating expenses to the process. A truly transparent sale would allow me to buy direct from the factory, finance online, and have the car delivered to my driveway by the most expedient method. How much can be taken off the price of the car by eliminating the dealership from the process?

Agree.

Only problem is there is an inherent cost to everything. While we will certainly save tons of money on cars, can't phantom where that displaced labor force will go and what that will ultimately do to our economy.