Need advice - buyer claims watch received fake

[roach7]

I was going to email him and ask him to show me the so called evidence he's posted. I do not see such in the PayPal dispute itself. I'm going to call PayPal tomorrow and see what the claims agent says. I have sold hundreds of Tudors in the past so hopefully that's says something...

[Kostas]

Good luck man , hate it when scumbags pull stunts like this.

Definitely see the evidence , he could have sent PayPal a fake authenticity paper from Rolex

I'm in Sydney but if you find out in anyway I can help let me know , it's only a short flight to Melb !

[yannis]

blacklotus99, Kostas and Mon above make perfect sense maybe this is your key to win this dispute over this scammer. Such a pity, these Paypal policies...

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by roach7

Hi,
I recently shipped a brand new Tudor BB to a buyer in Australia and now 2 weeks later he's filing a PayPal claim stating that the serial # of the watch received did not match the one on the card. The he claimed that he took it to Rolex and they told him it's a fake. He proceeded to file a PayPal claim and now the funds are being held while the investigation takes place...

Has any seller here encountered such a scam?

Any advice on how I need to proceed with this so PayPal doesn't side with this scammer?

Thanks in advance!

Henry, did you sell the watch on TRF, or elsewhere? If here or elsewhere, let us know the persons name...

[yxc145]

Here is my personal experience.
I sold a cellphone on Ebay.
2 weeks after delivery, buyer contact me claiming the phone was damaged. All I had were pictures of the phone. I knew I shipped him a good phone. But really no way to prove it. Ebay even told me that they will always favor the buyer under their Money Back Guarantee. So, Ebay asked the buyer to ship the phone back to me. They took the fund out of my Paypal account to refund the buyer and charged me for return shipping. I did not get a tracking number till 10 days later. And here comes the interesting part. When I got the package. It was an empty phone box with only ear piece and the charging plus. Buyer even removed the sticker with serial number and IMEI on the phone box. That's when I know he was definitely a scammer.
Luckily, Ebay also has a seller protection. I reported to Ebay that buyer sent an empty box. So Ebay pay me back out of their own pocket. But this is one time only and they did not refund me the return shipping.

If your watch was indeed sold on Ebay, I think it is going to be hard to win the case. 1. No proof that you shipped the watch with the serial number matching the warranty card. 2. Since the buyer used the "no matching serial numbers" claim against you, he/she can send back a fake watch and said that's the watch you sent. Unless he/she is dumb enough to not send anything back. Then you may able to file a case against the buyer. Ebay really is not a safe place to sell high price items.

[roach7]

The watch was sold on eBay to mrprada92 (Peter Kryvonosov)

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by roach7

The watch was sold on eBay to mrprada92 (Peter Kryvonosov)

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by roach7

The watch was sold on eBay to mrprada92 (Peter Kryvonosov)

Thanks..

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by roach7

The watch was sold on eBay to mrprada92 (Peter Kryvonosov)

Here it is...^^^

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Knappo 1307

Here it is...^^^

The user has a long history with few transactions, but all positive. Unless someone hacked the account, he looks like a decent buyer.

[roach7]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

The user has a long history with few transactions, but all positive. Unless someone hacked the account, he looks like a decent buyer.

If you look deeper he bought a springbar tool on the same day he filed the PayPal dispute... Coincidence, I think not

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by roach7

If you look deeper he bought a springbar tool on the same day he filed the PayPal dispute... Coincidence, I think not

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

So, you're saying that a scammer would think to buy the right tool for the job, rather than using the pointy end of a steak knife or some other expedient tool? Like he gives a sh1t if he damages the watch?

I don't have any skin in the game and I don't know you or the buyer. From my chair it looks like this guy sent back what he got in the mail. You haven't presented any pictures of the watch you sold or any other evidence that anything else is going on, only your word that he's a scammer and you're not.

[dysondiver]

hope you get a good result ...
i had a similar e bay problem a few years ago with a bike ,,, but one of my friends belongs to a fairly big motor bike club , for a small donation they sent a local representative to resolve the issue on my behalf ,,, job done .
but it made me wary of e bay
e bay is great if every one plays honestly , but they dont , and thats where the problems arise.

[yxc145]

Originally Posted by dysondiver

hope you get a good result ...
i had a similar e bay problem a few years ago with a bike ,,, but one of my friends belongs to a fairly big motor bike club , for a small donation they sent a local representative to resolve the issue on my behalf ,,, job done .
but it made me wary of e bay
e bay is great if every one plays honestly , but they dont , and thats where the problems arise.

how was the "Job done"?

[tamiya]

Plenty of bikie gangs down in Melbourne too, if needs be...

[Ouro9999]

I think this is a scam. Well if you have the original purchase invoice, i would file it as stolen at RSC and Police. I think this guy took a fake one instead of your watch to RSC. So if one day your watch ever goes to service it may be returned to you. As for the money i believe you have lost it.

Enviado de meu SM-G955F usando Tapatalk

[michaelodonnell123]

Ask the scammer to show the following:
An official police report of his claim that you scammed him
An official letter from Rolex that he brought it to them and they said it was fake
Evidence that he actually went to the Rolex service center (video footage, parking receipt, a letter from an employee there that says he was actually there)
Photos of the watch he says is fake (including photos of the movement)
A letter from a third party jeweler indicating the watch is fake along with photos of the jeweler and the 'fake' watch
...keep him busy by putting the burden of proof upon him.

[roach7]

Originally Posted by michaelodonnell123

Ask the scammer to show the following:
An official police report of his claim that you scammed him
An official letter from Rolex that he brought it to them and they said it was fake
Evidence that he actually went to the Rolex service center (video footage, parking receipt, a letter from an employee there that says he was actually there)
Photos of the watch he says is fake (including photos of the movement)
A letter from a third party jeweler indicating the watch is fake along with photos of the jeweler and the 'fake' watch
...keep him busy by putting the burden of proof upon him.

Should I contact him directly or communicate this to PayPal? Once he escalates the claim I no longer can comment on the dispute on the PayPal system...

Thanks

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by roach7

Should I contact him directly or communicate this to PayPal? Once he escalates the claim I no longer can comment on the dispute on the PayPal system...

Thanks

I think he'll tell you to pound sand if you present him with that laundry list - I know I would. He's under no obligation to send you all that documentation and probably knows it.

Best you can do is ask for a qualified letter proving that the watch is fake. If he can present that to eBay then I'm afraid you'll lose. It's his word against yours and unless he's got a shady history with eBay, I think he'll prevail.

Not at all fair, but to expect anything else is wishful thinking.

Have you checked his eBay feedback?

[michaelodonnell123]

Originally Posted by Tony64

I think he'll tell you to pound sand if you present him with that laundry list - I know I would. He's under no obligation to send you all that documentation and probably knows it.


Have you checked his eBay feedback?

Actually he is under obligation. If he claims that it is a fake then he has to prove it.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by michaelodonnell123

Actually he is under obligation. If he claims that it is a fake then he has to prove it.

Yes, but to who's satisfaction? Yours or eBay's??

All eBay is likely to require is a letter from a qualified expert stating that the watch is fake. Video footage, parking receipts, affidavits from the store employee that he spoke with, photos of the employee, etc, are beyond what is usually expected, in my opinion of course.

eBay/PayPal will decide for themselves what documentation they require. I'm just saying that the buyer/scammer has no obligation to provide these things to the seller. "Keeping him busy" as you say, I don't think will prove an effective strategy, but I hope I'm wrong.

[yxc145]

I think Ebay or some third party (FEDEX or UPS) should provide service to authenticate, confirm product functional, or as witness for sellers when packaging/shipping their products. That way, they can act as witness, provide evidence for cases like this.
Of course, not authenticate jewelry or watches like this since it takes a lot more than FEDEX or UPS clerk to do that. But at least they can do the basic like matching serial numbers, making sure item was not damaged, etc.

[michaelodonnell123]

Originally Posted by roach7

Should I contact him directly or communicate this to PayPal? Once he escalates the claim I no longer can comment on the dispute on the PayPal system...

Thanks

Since the transaction began with eBay and PayPal, then you should continue this through eBay and PayPal and not with him. Ask them to ask him to furnish all of the requested documents.

[roach7]

The twist here is he's bypassing eBay and escalating the claim directly with PayPal... Why would he do that?

[Tony64]

PayPal/eBay is notoriously buyer friendly, and the reason so many sellers accept only wire transfer.

Sending a watch from NYC to Australia and acccepting PayPal as payment is an enormous risk unless the buyer has impeccable references.

I wouldn't expect a happy ending, but a lesson learned the hard way.

[breitlings]

I had a couple of issues selling iPhones internationally with eBay and PayPal. Including one you describe. However, I would be very concerned the seller has a fake watch and is going to send that back to you and use that as evidence. I would show the AD receipt and respond to every thing the seller says in eBay message center as Ewok suggested above. I did win everytime but it does make me hesitant to deal with high ticket items and do not ship internationally anymore.

[yxc145]

Originally Posted by breitlings

I had a couple of issues selling iPhones internationally with eBay and PayPal. Including one you describe. However, I would be very concerned the seller has a fake watch and is going to send that back to you and use that as evidence. I would show the AD receipt and respond to every thing the seller says in eBay message center as Ewok suggested above. I did win everytime but it does make me hesitant to deal with high ticket items and do not ship internationally anymore.

The problem is.. the scammer can say that the watch he received is not the same watch as the one seller purchased from AD. Scammer can argue that seller did not package/ship the real watch. That's why without 3rd party witness the package/shipping process, it is hard to prove.
I filed a report with the Cyber crime division with FBI, but I doubt they will do much to help your case. Especially this scammer is in a different country.

[gmooreil]

Interesting

[epc2]

Did you keep a copy of the warranty card or do you have it on the receipt?

You can ask him to provide proof that he went to the RSC and that that serial # belongs to a fake watch , of course he won't provide that.

I hope you can resolve this issue, I think your feedback here on this forum might help with the claim.

I hate these scammers.

[crowncollection]

I feel for you this is my worst nightmare when I occasionally sell on ebay, this is an old scam, you really cannot avoid, he likely did take a fake to rolex and has a letter, I have seen before, the seller had sold thousands of watches, paypal side with the buyer almost every time even thought the buyer in the case i mentioned had almost no feedback. Last time we started by mentioning his name and ebay ID in every response post so when people google searched his name came up as a scammer, Have you tried to find him on social media sites ?