AD vs Grey

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by HL65

Seems a lot of you guys are unhappy with Rolex why not instead of whining all the time just switch to another brand? It would cut down 50% of the recent threads and perhaps bring you some joy. Just a thought...For me I will continue to work with and buy from the same AD I have worked with for the last 15 years who gets me every watch I want and in quick timeframe. If you want to get the sought after watches you have to have a solid relationship no different than any other brand from Patek to AP. It's the way it is so rather than whining and moaning all the time figure it out and do what most of us do who have been doing it for years. Again it seems like half the threads these days here are people whining about supply, prices, stickers, thick cases, etc. Perhaps you should try to go buy a Patek 5711, 5164, or AP 15407, 15202 etc. but wait you can't get any of those without a super long wait either so forget it.

x2!!!

Yes, the eternal dilemma (not). Most people on this website want their Rolex to hold value and even appreciate. But the only way that happens is if demand is higher than supply. And the AD is in this to make a living. Period. End of story. So, the AD needs to recoup the cost of the distributorship. And one way to do this is to use SS sport models as a carrot. Cannot really blame the AD. Just my opinion.

Yes, building relationships is important. But, at least from my experience, buying multiple watches is not the only way to do that.

Except for my penchant for a nice watch, I am a simple person with simple inexpensive tastes. However, when I go to an AD, I show respect. I dress appropriately. And I am unfailingly polite. It is their store. Not mine.

I try to get to know the AD's staff. Ask about their family. See if we have any mutual acquaintances. Compliment the AD's staff. Show curtesy to their customers. Etc. Basically, show respect and act like I have some raising.

For example, when the AD is trying to close a sale to another customer for a piece of jewelry that costs more than I make in a year, I hang back and look at other items in the store. Again, I show respect and act like I have some raising.

I also try to learn before I go so I am able to have an intelligent conversation with the AD. Thanks to this forum, and spending time to educate myself, I have on occasion been able to add to an AD's knowledge. And, for many sales people, it is appreciated.

If I am thinking about buying a watch from an AD, I ask them for any "price assistance" they can offer. I also tell them how much I appreciate their time, particularly if I am not happy enough with the price to purchase the watch (which is usually the case).

Last, I have found that many AD's have at least one sales person that is a watch buff. So, if I have a vintage watch in good shape to wear at the time, I will wear it to the AD's store. Take it off and show it to the AD. If they are wearing a vintage watch, I will ask about it.

My mantra: (1) remember the AD is in the business to make money; (2) show respect; and (3) act like I have some raising.

This is just my approach. It does not always work. But it often does.

[Vipes]

Originally Posted by mrporter

Perfect thread! I was asking the same question on another rolex forum.

Basically not everyone can afford to buy 2-3 watches a year, for some of us, buying watch once a year is already a luxury. So these ADs keep pushing on "having a relationship" idea, which a lot of member here also agree, but how is it even possible to start a relationship if the watch that we want to buy, of course mostly SS sport models, doesn't even exist? Or you need to be a VIP to get your hand on those models. A lot of people, including my self, doesn't want to be stuck with watches that we don't want at all or just have a so so feeling towards it. So the idea of buying another model to get the model we want is just ridiculous.

I think AD need to see people commitment, if they're commit to spend, they should just let them have it. Of course AD still can tend to their VIPs, but I think they should reserve 1 or 2 stock for the first come first serve basis.

I like the idea of buying from AD, but with this situation, I think grey is the go to option.

I agree. With limited stock of professional Rolex models, it is hard to start a relationship with an AD. My advice is to not get discourage and try to find the right AD. I visited an AD in my town this weekend and I inquired about the Sub Lvc. The wait was about 3-4 months with a deposit. I thought this was very reasonable for a new customer.

[JR16]

Originally Posted by AK797

The turnover of sales staff can also be quite high, so newer employees will only know of this environment and so their behaviour will be even more dismissive. Managers need to step in and set the tone.



But any unhappy customers should always tell the AD you will be writing to Rolex and the forums, this is the way to keep them in line. Rolex will use these trustpilot type reviews in future when they downsize ADs.

Good points and agree!


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[101031-28]

Originally Posted by mountainjogger

x2!!!

Yes, the eternal dilemma (not). Most people on this website want their Rolex to hold value and even appreciate. But the only way that happens is if demand is higher than supply. And the AD is in this to make a living. Period. End of story. So, the AD needs to recoup the cost of the distributorship. And one way to do this is to use SS sport models as a carrot. Cannot really blame the AD. Just my opinion.

Yes, building relationships is important. But, at least from my experience, buying multiple watches is not the only way to do that.

Except for my penchant for a nice watch, I am a simple person with simple inexpensive tastes. However, when I go to an AD, I show respect. I dress appropriately. And I am unfailingly polite. It is their store. Not mine.

I try to get to know the AD's staff. Ask about their family. See if we have any mutual acquaintances. Compliment the AD's staff. Show curtesy to their customers. Etc. Basically, show respect and act like I have some raising.

For example, when the AD is trying to close a sale to another customer for a piece of jewelry that costs more than I make in a year, I hang back and look at other items in the store. Again, I show respect and act like I have some raising.

I also try to learn before I go so I am able to have an intelligent conversation with the AD. Thanks to this forum, and spending time to educate myself, I have on occasion been able to add to an AD's knowledge. And, for many sales people, it is appreciated.

If I am thinking about buying a watch from an AD, I ask them for any "price assistance" they can offer. I also tell them how much I appreciate their time, particularly if I am not happy enough with the price to purchase the watch (which is usually the case).

Last, I have found that many AD's have at least one sales person that is a watch buff. So, if I have a vintage watch in good shape to wear at the time, I will wear it to the AD's store. Take it off and show it to the AD. If they are wearing a vintage watch, I will ask about it.

My mantra: (1) remember the AD is in the business to make money; (2) show respect; and (3) act like I have some raising.

This is just my approach. It does not always work. But it often does.

Why aren't more people like you, sir? Kudos to your post, very well written

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by Manuela

Why aren't more people like you, sir? Kudos to your post, very well written

Thanks!!!:thumbs:

[MesaSean]

I thought once you buy something with and AD they would work with you on pricing for future pieces.

I bought a brand new DJ2 from an AD. They had a GMT Master II 16710 Coke bezel, real beaten up with no box or papers. They thing was so beaten up it would need a total overhaul.....but they would not budge on the price. I was like really? I would have to spend much money to get this thing overhauled and they still would not budge. I was not looking for a discount on a new piece....but on a used beat up GMT Master II....come on....

[Raza_actual]

Originally Posted by mountainjogger

x2!!!

Yes, the eternal dilemma (not). Most people on this website want their Rolex to hold value and even appreciate. But the only way that happens is if demand is higher than supply. And the AD is in this to make a living. Period. End of story. So, the AD needs to recoup the cost of the distributorship. And one way to do this is to use SS sport models as a carrot. Cannot really blame the AD. Just my opinion.

Yes, building relationships is important. But, at least from my experience, buying multiple watches is not the only way to do that.

Except for my penchant for a nice watch, I am a simple person with simple inexpensive tastes. However, when I go to an AD, I show respect. I dress appropriately. And I am unfailingly polite. It is their store. Not mine.

I try to get to know the AD's staff. Ask about their family. See if we have any mutual acquaintances. Compliment the AD's staff. Show curtesy to their customers. Etc. Basically, show respect and act like I have some raising.

For example, when the AD is trying to close a sale to another customer for a piece of jewelry that costs more than I make in a year, I hang back and look at other items in the store. Again, I show respect and act like I have some raising.

I also try to learn before I go so I am able to have an intelligent conversation with the AD. Thanks to this forum, and spending time to educate myself, I have on occasion been able to add to an AD's knowledge. And, for many sales people, it is appreciated.

If I am thinking about buying a watch from an AD, I ask them for any "price assistance" they can offer. I also tell them how much I appreciate their time, particularly if I am not happy enough with the price to purchase the watch (which is usually the case).

Last, I have found that many AD's have at least one sales person that is a watch buff. So, if I have a vintage watch in good shape to wear at the time, I will wear it to the AD's store. Take it off and show it to the AD. If they are wearing a vintage watch, I will ask about it.

My mantra: (1) remember the AD is in the business to make money; (2) show respect; and (3) act like I have some raising.

This is just my approach. It does not always work. But it often does.

I find the best approach is to put your money in your outstretched hands and beg “Please sir, I want some more”.

It’s a retail transaction. Not a job interview, not a date. I’m not going to dress like a slob because I never dress like a slob. I’m going to be courteous and polite because I’m always courteous and polite. But I don’t walk into a store with the intention to debase myself so they will do deign to sell me their goods. That you’re okay with having to suck up to a retailer in order to have some hope that they’ll sell you their products is worrying. I respect myself too much to do that.

And for the record, I’m solidly in the AD camp. But I’ve come across ADs that have treated me like I don’t belong there. They can go to hell. I’m not going to rollover and play fetch so they can reward me with a luxury product I have to pay thousands of dollars for. If an AD acts like that, I walk away and tell all my friends that they treated me like garbage—like I do with Govberg in Philadelphia.

[slate1234]

walked into a grey shop for my gmt ii with stickers priced £250 over rrp , dressed in my working clothes (straight of a building site) I offered £100 over rrp in cash he come back with £150, deal done, offered a glass of champagne but I was driving so settled on a bottle of water while they took a link out and sized it for me, as for being polite always, manners cost nothing even if you feel you are being ill treated a thank you but no thanks cost nothing and always shake there hand, Now that will show the man you are, point being I couldn't be bothered waiting for a watch so paid over the odds you don't have to go into AD you choose too go in and if they are rude just say Thank you and always shake there hand.

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by mountainjogger

x2!!!

Yes, the eternal dilemma (not). Most people on this website want their Rolex to hold value and even appreciate. But the only way that happens is if demand is higher than supply. And the AD is in this to make a living. Period. End of story. So, the AD needs to recoup the cost of the distributorship. And one way to do this is to use SS sport models as a carrot. Cannot really blame the AD. Just my opinion.

Yes, building relationships is important. But, at least from my experience, buying multiple watches is not the only way to do that.

Come on... You're just buying a watch, you're looking way too much into this. Respect sure that's normal behavior or should be but that's it.

[Wahlberg]

The current trend you see at big brands is to create artificial scarcity. People will start talking, feel the need/urge to have something they can't have, fear of missing out, used/new prices rise because you weren't able to get the product and the demand is high.

Just look at the clothing brands such as Supreme or limited edition shoes released by Nike/Adidas/... . It's all about creating a hype.

Don't forget it's just a watch. You aren't more or less because you do or don't own product X.

[Vanmarsenille]

Originally Posted by Raza_actual

I find the best approach is to put your money in your outstretched hands and beg “Please sir, I want some more”.

It’s a retail transaction. Not a job interview, not a date. I’m not going to dress like a slob because I never dress like a slob. I’m going to be courteous and polite because I’m always courteous and polite. But I don’t walk into a store with the intention to debase myself so they will do deign to sell me their goods. That you’re okay with having to suck up to a retailer in order to have some hope that they’ll sell you their products is worrying. I respect myself too much to do that.

And for the record, I’m solidly in the AD camp. But I’ve come across ADs that have treated me like I don’t belong there. They can go to hell. I’m not going to rollover and play fetch so they can reward me with a luxury product I have to pay thousands of dollars for. If an AD acts like that, I walk away and tell all my friends that they treated me like garbage—like I do with Govberg in Philadelphia.

This ^^^.

[Vanmarsenille]

Originally Posted by mountainjogger

x2!!!

Yes, the eternal dilemma (not). Most people on this website want their Rolex to hold value and even appreciate. But the only way that happens is if demand is higher than supply. And the AD is in this to make a living. Period. End of story. So, the AD needs to recoup the cost of the distributorship. And one way to do this is to use SS sport models as a carrot. Cannot really blame the AD. Just my opinion.

Yes, building relationships is important. But, at least from my experience, buying multiple watches is not the only way to do that.

Except for my penchant for a nice watch, I am a simple person with simple inexpensive tastes. However, when I go to an AD, I show respect. I dress appropriately. And I am unfailingly polite. It is their store. Not mine.

I try to get to know the AD's staff. Ask about their family. See if we have any mutual acquaintances. Compliment the AD's staff. Show curtesy to their customers. Etc. Basically, show respect and act like I have some raising.

For example, when the AD is trying to close a sale to another customer for a piece of jewelry that costs more than I make in a year, I hang back and look at other items in the store. Again, I show respect and act like I have some raising.

I also try to learn before I go so I am able to have an intelligent conversation with the AD. Thanks to this forum, and spending time to educate myself, I have on occasion been able to add to an AD's knowledge. And, for many sales people, it is appreciated.

If I am thinking about buying a watch from an AD, I ask them for any "price assistance" they can offer. I also tell them how much I appreciate their time, particularly if I am not happy enough with the price to purchase the watch (which is usually the case).

Last, I have found that many AD's have at least one sales person that is a watch buff. So, if I have a vintage watch in good shape to wear at the time, I will wear it to the AD's store. Take it off and show it to the AD. If they are wearing a vintage watch, I will ask about it.

My mantra: (1) remember the AD is in the business to make money; (2) show respect; and (3) act like I have some raising.

This is just my approach. It does not always work. But it often does.

Reading your post, it appears that you have got the dynamics of the relationship flipped around. As the customer, the AD should be showing YOU respect; it might be their store, but it's YOUR money. This fawning, misplaced respect, going Uriah Heep-like to an AD, cap in hand, "oh please sell me a watch" stuff is misguided and wrong.

[S-F]

Originally Posted by Vanmarsenille

Reading your post, it appears that you have got the dynamics of the relationship flipped around. As the customer, the AD should be showing YOU respect; it might be their store, but it's YOUR money. This fawning, misplaced respect, going Uriah Heep-like to an AD, cap in hand, "oh please sell me a watch" stuff is misguided and wrong.

I agree with this. There are multiple ADs in my area and the one that earned my business was the one that treated me with respect and worked with me on price.

Some of the ADs I visited treated me very poorly and acted like I was wasting their time. Guess what I didn't waste there? My money

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by Raza_actual

I’m always courteous and polite.

Good.

Originally Posted by Raza_actual

But I don’t walk into a store with the intention to debase myself so they will do deign to sell me their goods.

Also good. And IMOP you should not.

Originally Posted by Raza_actual

That you’re okay with having to suck up to a retailer in order to have some hope that they’ll sell you their products is worrying.

I appreciate your concern. But I just re-read my post and I have not suggested that. Unless of course you consider asking after family, being polite, complimenting staff and sharing knowledge to be sucking up. If you do, we will have to disagree.

[/QUOTE

Originally Posted by Raza_actual

I’ve come across ADs that have treated me like I don’t belong there. They can go to hell. If an AD acts like that, I walk away and tell all my friends that they treated me like garbage—like I do with Govberg in Philadelphia.

Ok. And yes, I have had that happen. I try to write the first occasion off on the person having a bad day (which we all do). If it repeats, I take my business elsewhere. But I find that this rarely happens if I have taken the time to try and build relationships.

[el-heffe]

Originally Posted by NoCokeNoHope

Perhaps the grey/trusted sellers may not be a bad idea after all. I know exactly what I am buying and when am I going to get it. Paying a bit over MSRP (not $6000 more, of course) probably worth it. At least they are not going to force me in bed with them.

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It doesn't hurt to visit the AD a few times to A) look at the watches but also B) to find someone that you'll want to work with. Someone who isn't full of hot air. Someone who has in depth knowledge about the models that you're interested in. Maybe I'm a flake, but if the person doesn't know the models (or are too full of hot air) then I'm not interested in working with them, even if they have the watch I want.

I was able to find someone knowledgable, but it wasn't by accepting the first person who greeted me on my first visit. You can shop for the right sales person, just like you shop for the right watch. Besides, I like to stop in once a month or so and look and see what's new. It can also let the AD know that you're serious.

Like you, I had a hard time getting started, but finding the right sales person made a huge difference. I don't mind saying it's at an AD that's about 1.5 hours away even though I have two other AD's within 30 minutes of my house. I just wasn't able to find the right person at either of those.

I wish you the best of luck. If you're like me and want watch that's hard to get, you'll end up doing a lot of looking before you're able to get what you want anyway. Hopefully you'll be able to build a few relationships at a few AD as well.

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by Vanmarsenille

Reading your post, it appears that you have got the dynamics of the relationship flipped around. As the customer, the AD should be showing YOU respect; it might be their store, but it's YOUR money. This fawning, misplaced respect, going Uriah Heep-like to an AD, cap in hand, "oh please sell me a watch" stuff is misguided and wrong.

Please re-read my post. I don't own a cap and am not suggesting anyone go cap in hand. My post does argue that asking after family, complimenting staff and sharing knowledge can build relationships. If this is going Uriah Heep-like, then we have different definitions.

Yes it is my money. But I try to flip the issue around and look at the world from their perspective.

I provide professional services for a living. When I interview a potential new client I ask myself "Do I want to work for this person?" If they give me the "it's my money and I am doing you a favor by hiring you" attitude I refer them to someone else and show them the door. If they are not polite to my staff, I show them the door. If they cannot be bothered with what is considered common courtesy in my neck of the woods, I show them the door. Life is too short to deal with rude people.

So, I try to treat AD's the same way I insist on being treated. Simple as that.

And I try to build relationships.

Works for me.

[Rolex addict]

Originally Posted by superstarmar

Madness !!!! My AD as of late who I purchased all of
My Rolex from except one has been really quirky...
It is definitely not business as usual lately in the Rolex world
that’s for sure ....

My local AD pitched a little hissy fit a few months ago and I haven’t been back. I don’t need him and can get whatever watch I want.

[pilotjim]

Relationships are fine, but some people just want to buy a once-in-a-lifetime item. I guess they're poop out of luck.

[Razorsedge1]

For the occasional watch buyer going grey is probably a better option for a sought after model. It is cheaper to pay a $5K premium than to build a relationship with an AD.

[mrporter]

Originally Posted by Razorsedge1

For the occasional watch buyer going grey is probably a better option for a sought after model. It is cheaper to pay a $5K premium than to build a relationship with an AD.

Yes and I think building a relationship with greys is the same thing with ADs. I bought my DJII from a grey that my friend introduced, he gave me 20% below retail. I guess with greys they have a network of VIPs (or sometimes the owners are VIP to some ADs themselves) who can help them flip watch below retail.

My friend bought his sub date below retail as well from this grey 4 years ago.


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[ckaynyc]

I bought my first AD piece a couple of weeks ago out of necessity. All in all, it was a great experience. I paid 8% more than I would have from my usual TS of choice but I was able to make sure I had it for when I needed it. My TS couldn’t assure me that I would have it when I needed it, which was a two week window, so again, I was limited. Getting a price I thought was fair and acceptable took some time, but we got there.

As for future purchases, I prefer to go through the TS route. While I had gotten 13% off retail, and a nice Rolex pen, a TS will most often get you the best price.

Maybe my opinion will change when I decide to ask for a HTF piece and the AD can execute for me, but I’m not one to chase unicorns.

[NoCokeNoHope]

Interestingly this post suddenly gain some steam in the last 24 hours. Appreciate everyone‘s comments and opinions. Fast forwarding two days after my encounter with the snobby AD from my original post, I was back in town on Friday and stopped by an AD near the Boston Common. At the sport model display, a scene that I have not seen for a while:

114060, 116610LN, 116613LN, 116680, SS YM 40, SS YMII, TT YMII, and the missing piece in the lower left corner that I picked up on the spot:




The sales lady was very friendly and I told her I want to purchase the D-Blue. “Sure! I knew this one is not going to stay very long,” she said and was going to show me how the watch works. She saw the DSSD Black (my last AD purchase 9 years ago) on my wrist and just said “ you probably know how this works. Do you need you bracelet sized?” I politely declined so we moved right over to the cashier and I took out the little plastic card from my big boy pants, put on my reading glasses. Swiped and done. We had a very nice chat and about the recent madness. While she cannot comment on other AD’s Sport Model inventory and practice, their practice is keeping some SS models available for walk-ins like me and maintain a waiting list for the frequent flyers. I politely inquired about other sought after SS Models and she said “I can put you on the list but you need to be patience, I got 5 last year and only 2 this year so far.” “But you will get it.” They don’t do bump list so when it is your turn, it is your turn.
The experience was more than positive, no begging, and my prior relationship with this AD was a $289 strap. They treated me with respect just like all the AD I used to know and expected. I too was in the AD camp many years ago but lost contact after I moved and gone vintage for a while. The AD world just seems very different now.

[mrporter]

Originally Posted by NoCokeNoHope

Interestingly this post suddenly gain some steam in the last 24 hours. Appreciate everyone‘s comments and opinions. Fast forwarding two days after my encounter with the snobby AD from my original post, I was back in town on Friday and stopped by an AD near the Boston Common. At the sport model display, a scene that I have not seen for a while:

114060, 116610LN, 116613LN, 116680, SS YM 40, SS YMII, TT YMII, and the missing piece in the lower left corner that I picked up on the spot:




The sales lady was very friendly and I told her I want to purchase the D-Blue. “Sure! I knew this one is not going to stay very long,” she said and was going to show me how the watch works. She saw the DSSD Black (my last AD purchase 9 years ago) on my wrist and just said “ you probably know how this works. Do you need you bracelet sized?” I politely declined so we moved right over to the cashier and I took out the little plastic card from my big boy pants, put on my reading glasses. Swiped and done. We had a very nice chat and about the recent madness. While she cannot comment on other AD’s Sport Model inventory and practice, their practice is keeping some SS models available for walk-ins like me and maintain a waiting list for the frequent flyers. I politely inquired about other sought after SS Models and she said “I can put you on the list but you need to be patience, I got 5 last year and only 2 this year so far.” “But you will get it.” They don’t do bump list so when it is your turn, it is your turn.
The experience was more than positive, no begging, and my prior relationship with this AD was a $289 strap. They treated me with respect just like all the AD I used to know and expected. I too was in the AD camp many years ago but lost contact after I moved and gone vintage for a while. The AD world just seems very different now.

See that’s a nice experience overall right? I really think this how AD should behave. Reserved one or two pieces for the walks in. I know there’s this argument we can bump into one of the bad days for the AD, but they work in a luxury industry, meaning a good customer service is part of the deal.

A true story from another forum, this guy thinking to buy his first rolex, but everytime he came in and ask questions AD just look down on him, maybe lot of questions but no action. Again, buying rolex for some of us, especially our first, can be frightening, you definitely have a lot of worries. So one day when it’s D-Day to purchase, this guy ask more questions and as usual AD doesn’t really interested to accommodate him, he dropped this plastic full of cash. LoL

[RolexNorth]

I too am starting to think that grey market is the way to go if you really want that hard to get stainless steel sports model.

For instance, there's a grey market dealer in my city that has the ceramic Daytona with white dial. He's asking $27,000 CAD for it and he'll sell it cash-all-in. If by going to a Rolex AD I would have to buy $100,000 in PM Rolex watches FIRST before he'd even give me a sniff of the Daytona, I may as well go to the grey market dealer and pay the $27,000 CAD for it and save the other $77,000 CAD for something else.

Then after doing this, I would call the nearest Rolex headquarters aftersales department and tell them which Rolex AD gave me the hard time, and that I turned to a grey market dealer and gave them my money instead.

I think this would send a strong message to Rolex SA.

[enjoythemusic]

And so this is where Rolex is today. (sad sigh)

Am not sure of Rolex's upcoming plans, yet when grey dealers are easier, and more friendly, to deal with than ADs.... something needs to change. On second thought, 'need' is a strong word, perhaps a better word would be __________.

[brandrea]

Congratulations OP

DBlue is a killer piece as I’m sure you know from owning it’s brother

So did you get on the list for another reference

[jyn]

Totally agree. The world revolves around relationships so always put in some extra effort to build them. I call it friendship.

[NoCokeNoHope]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Congratulations OP



DBlue is a killer piece as I’m sure you know from owning it’s brother



So did you get on the list for another reference

Thank you! And yes, she put me in the system and repeated all the info back to me. Also told me to check the store from time to time for any “surprises” they may put out.


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[JLM3]

Congrats and very nice watch ....what AD was it in Boston if you don't mind .

[NoCokeNoHope]

Originally Posted by JLM3

Congrats and very nice watch ....what AD was it in Boston if you don't mind .

PM sent.


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