what it takes to be a good laywer.

[bronzeband00]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

What kind of watch does he wear?

I bet it's a Rolex. Lawyers are cunning, but they like to always say they are clearly doing their job

[gettocard]

Originally Posted by Valenciawatchrepair

Isn't there a legal way to basically say, the divorce is over, you can't harass me or have a lawyer harass me on your behalf anymore?

Unfortunately no. A 73 years old friend of mine divorced 40 years ago and for the past 35 years of his life his ex wife kept bothering him with constant and pointless lawsuits. In the mean time,she managed to burn her assets of 3 seafront villas to gambling and booze going in n out alcoholic anonymous for years. She passed away last year,her funeral had gone deserted..

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by gettocard

Sorry,you got it all wrong. I haven’t talk to my ex wife in 6 years and what really bothers is that whatever she spends with her dumb ass lawyer I have to spend the same amount of money on my lawyer to defend myself. My ex wife totally lost her common sense with this divorce but that’s her problem,I’m no doctor. She’s into “ i’m going to hell but i’ll drag him along with me” kind of state,and her lawyer doesn’t care. Myself,I have a happy family and a happy life now,if my ex wife wants to rot in hell be my guest,it’s just bad nobody is seeing that,not even her parents. And some guy is making money out of it..

Ah, I see. Well, whenever I get into legal nonsense, I always stipulate “loser pays all the legal fees”. It seems to cut down on frivolities. Good luck to you.

[214270Explorer]

Originally Posted by Valenciawatchrepair

Isn't there a legal way to basically say, the divorce is over, you can't harass me or have a lawyer harass me on your behalf anymore?

That is exactly what I was thinking . . . there has to be a point at which this becomes harassment.

[Valenciawatchrepair]

Originally Posted by 214270Explorer

That is exactly what I was thinking . . . there has to be a point at which this becomes harassment.

This is why I mentioned the male/female difference in these scenarios earlier.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2015...-up-dale-vince

[ecdc]

Originally Posted by gettocard

Since I'm going through a very fighty divorce where my wife has already lost,my lawyer and I are wondering why she keeps on fighting and throwing money at her lawyer even after 5 years. The answer basically is she just want revenge of course,but honestly speaking her lawyer has a reputation of somebody who is just after the money,either his client money or the final " grand prize " money. The guy had already a couple of cars torched in the past..go figure. Basically he's brainwashing my ex wife into keep fighting becuse he had figured he won't be squeezing any money out of me.
So really, does it all end with " I'll become a lawyer just for the money " ? I like to think that one becomes a lawyer for the love of law and justice first,then money enventually will follow. I mean,when does a lawyers lose his very little,if any, touch of being "human" just to get his paycheck rather than having his client get out of trouble ? Sad..

Ugh. Lawyer here. Good judgment isn't just handed out with Bar cards. It takes time to develop. Plus, never make a case personal. I've defended people in huge criminal cases where everything was at stake and I've done my fair share of cases where it's "just" money at issue. Strangely enough, the higher the stakes, the better quality (usually) lawyer on the other side.

A good lawyer is a trusted confidant who can guide a client through a minefield or make problems go away quietly. Those lawyers usually are low-key and found based on reputation and referral. Bad lawyers usually are loud, obnoxious, don't know when to stop, and advertise. Your ex sounds like she has one of the latter.

I'm sorry you're dealing with one of the bad ones.

[Star Ferry]

Great lawyers, by and large, aren't taking on divorce cases

[Etschell]

The best lawyers tell the client what they need to hear not what they want to hear. I work with lawyers every single day.

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

Great lawyers, by and large, aren't taking on divorce cases

Respectfully disagree.

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by 214270Explorer

That is exactly what I was thinking . . . there has to be a point at which this becomes harassment.

You have too much faith in the legal system.

[Watch This]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

Great lawyers, by and large, aren't taking on divorce cases

Beyond wrong. Way beyond.

[Pw92676]

I have have the fortune and misfortune of working with a handful of lawyers who run the gamut from excellent to bloodsucking. My conjecture is that the range there is a broad range of lawyers spanning tiers, from top notch to woefully inadequate, with plenty of each tier, because there are so many law students that graduate each year. Something like 400 law schools with like 400 spots each year? That’s a lot of lawyers put into circulation annually. Lot of bottom of the barrel folks because the barrel is just bigger.

[gettocard]

Originally Posted by Watch This

Beyond wrong. Way beyond.

Not entirely. I have a close friend of mine that decided to avoid completely divorce cases because he did not want to be sucked into the turmoil of it. He's specialized in finances and he's gaining national reputation,he's interviewed regurlarly on TV.

[Watch This]

Originally Posted by gettocard

Not entirely. I have a close friend of mine that decided to avoid completely divorce cases because he did not want to be sucked into the turmoil of it. He's specialized in finances and he's gaining national reputation,he's interviewed regurlarly on TV.

Well then. There's definitive proof.
Heck....what do I know? I have only been the founding partner in a highly successful high end Matrimonial firm for nearly 30 years. I litigate against some of the finest and most talented lawyers there are. If you are of the belief that my field lacks skilled, amazing and compassionate lawyers, you are really mistaken. That's polite for clueless.

Then again, you know what they say about opinions....

[Chope Man]

Well said, Watch This!

What it takes to be a good Lawyer?

Years of studies and years of practice I guess...

And a good mind, that will privilege advice on the risks and good chances of success, with objective reasons given based on the Law and case laws rather than always go the way a narrow minded client (because of passion notably) would want to go no consideration of the money the client would waste all in vain (but for the profit of this bad lawyer).

Being specialized in divorce may be more difficult, because of the human factor and hard feelings, than working in other domains. Moreover, those lawyers also sometimes have to make their best to help "victims". Some of my close friends had to deal with that and it was not easy, they were very concerned in those last cases.

As for myself, I'm "lucky" enough, as an Intellectual Property specialist, having mostly worked for companies but also for individuals (inventors mostly) and now being "in house" (went to my best client) and only dealing with companies or other organismes, not to have worked in that difficult domain.

Where there is good and bad, as everywhere.

I wish you good luck Gettocard and hope that you will soon find peace. I am myself divorced and it was a hard time. Fortunately, live smiled again...

And consider that some studied law not because of the money ...

[timedate]

If marriage and divorce were laid out as a business proposition, would anybody think it was an equal, fair, and viable deal between both parties?

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

Great lawyers, by and large, aren't taking on divorce cases

This. You don’t see Wachtel or Cravath doing divorces.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by timedate

If marriage and divorce were laid out as a business proposition, would anybody think it was an equal, fair, and viable deal between both parties?

yes... otherwise dont get married.

One party should enhance the other and vice versa. If one spouse makes 100X more than the other often times its because of the other that they are able to do that. Drives me nuts when someone gets a divorce and think they should get the vast majority of the assets because they were the one who made the most money.

i think its should be 50/50 regardless no haggling required and would save a ton of hassle. My wife' best friend got divorced from her husband. She was a stay at home mom because he traveled and moved the family all across the world every year or two for his career. He spent 90% of their net worth in legal fees to avoid splitting it 50/50. He and she ended up with 5% each of what they started with. He didn't care because he could make it back, she couldn't.

[Johny]

Originally Posted by gettocard

Sorry,you got it all wrong. I haven’t talk to my ex wife in 6 years and what really bothers is that whatever she spends with her dumb ass lawyer I have to spend the same amount of money on my lawyer to defend myself. My ex wife totally lost her common sense with this divorce but that’s her problem,I’m no doctor. She’s into “ i’m going to hell but i’ll drag him along with me” kind of state,and her lawyer doesn’t care. Myself,I have a happy family and a happy life now,if my ex wife wants to rot in hell be my guest,it’s just bad nobody is seeing that,not even her parents. And some guy is making money out of it..

If you win can you claim your defence expenses against her?

[Tonyfsu21]

Originally Posted by Rockrolex

I was a patent/trademark lawyer for 44 years before I retired. In my firm (which we built from 3 lawyers to 140+ today), our motto was "practice good law and the money would follow." That was the truth. At one point, I was making over $1MM/year.

My wife is a divorce lawyer (solo practitioner) and make $1m+/yr. With 140 lawyers I would think you were making that much in a month or less... Perhaps I read it wrong?

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Rockrolex

I was a patent/trademark lawyer for 44 years before I retired. In my firm (which we built from 3 lawyers to 140+ today), our motto was "practice good law and the money would follow." That was the truth. At one point, I was making over $1MM/year.

i know nothing about the legal side of that, but the patent system has always bugged me. My wife has one for an oil major, they own it because she worked for them when she came up with it. Zero extra compensation. Not even a percentage.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

yes... otherwise dont get married.

One party should enhance the other and vice versa. If one spouse makes 100X more than the other often times its because of the other that they are able to do that. Drives me nuts when someone gets a divorce and think they should get the vast majority of the assets because they were the one who made the most money.

i think its should be 50/50 regardless no haggling required and would save a ton of hassle. My wife' best friend got divorced from her husband. She was a stay at home mom because he traveled and moved the family all across the world every year or two for his career. He spent 90% of their net worth in legal fees to avoid splitting it 50/50. He and she ended up with 5% each of what they started with. He didn't care because he could make it back, she couldn't.

I don’t completely disagree with you. BUT everyone has their own perspective, right? And that’s pretty black and white.

I got married at 40. I own a relatively successful business and had just sold another.

I made my wife sign a prenup. She originally said she wouldn’t. I then told her we wouldn’t get married. She relented.

I worked my entire life to get where I am. I don’t plan on splitting it. I also don’t plan on getting divorced. I love my wife. And I’m dedicated to her.

But she was 30. Came into the marriage with all her school debt and an unsure career future. I told her to do whatever she wants. Go back to school, apply for whatever, get a job she loves without worry of financial gain, or take as much time as necessary to work towards a career that makes her a ton of money. Her call completely with no pressure either way. She realized the unique position she was in and made her choice.

We have no kids.

She is now a fitness teacher and manages two super successful studios. Her classes are sold out weeks in advance. She’s crushing it. They actually just gave her 2.5% to ensure she has some skin in the game. And to guarantee they keep her. She’s that good.

She also has almost zero responsibilities in regards to taking care of home costs. I asked her only to do her best to pay down her student loans.

I can assure you, if something happens, and things go south, no chance I’d feel it’s fair to split funds. I’d surely do right by her. But not to the tune of half.

And again, I feel there is zero chance of things going south. But I know more divorced people than I do in happy marriages. And the stats show one needs to be wary.

I agree with what you’ve said. But to a certain degree.

[Etschell]

This thread is off the rails.

Marriage either ends in divorce or death. 50 50 shot of either. Why are people suprised that it is the 2nd toughest thing someone goes through?

You blame attorneys for representing clients and stereotype them all. There are good attorneys and bad attorneys no matter the area of law they practice. It is not isolated to divorce. The issue is people dont like divorce because it hits home.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by superdog

I don’t completely disagree with you. BUT everyone has their own perspective, right? And that’s pretty black and white.

I got married at 40. I own a relatively successful business and had just sold another.

I made my wife sign a prenup. She originally said she wouldn’t. I then told her we wouldn’t get married. She relented.

I worked my entire life to get where I am. I don’t plan on splitting it. I also don’t plan on getting divorced. I love my wife. And I’m dedicated to her.

But she was 30. Came into the marriage with all her school debt and an unsure career future. I told her to do whatever she wants. Go back to school, apply for whatever, get a job she loves without worry of financial gain, or take as much time as necessary to work towards a career that makes her a ton of money. Her call completely with no pressure either way. She realized the unique position she was in and made her choice.

We have no kids.

She is now a fitness teacher and manages two super successful studios. Her classes are sold out weeks in advance. She’s crushing it. They actually just gave her 2.5% to ensure she has some skin in the game. And to guarantee they keep her. She’s that good.

She also has almost zero responsibilities in regards to taking care of home costs. I asked her only to do her best to pay down her student loans.

I can assure you, if something happens, and things go south, no chance I’d feel it’s fair to split funds. I’d surely do right by her. But not to the tune of half.

And again, I feel there is zero chance of things going south. But I know more divorced people than I do in happy marriages. And the stats show one needs to be wary.

I agree with what you’ve said. But to a certain degree.

i just think divorce is turned into trying to "win" and lawyers definitely push that agenda. Its weird because when my parents got divorced when i was two it was very amicable and the thing that turned it ugly was literally they both wanted the garden hose. They both tell me that story all the time. For some reason that was a bridge too far and it got very nasty for a while. People literally lose their minds and cant see the big picture and almost always regret it years later and especially so if they have kids. Not regretting the divorce, but regretting the money wasted and the hard feelings over something totally unnecessary. People always think they will do the right thing, but im skeptical in the heat of the moment cooler heads will prevail. I would like to think it does though.

My mom is remarried and has been for over 30 years and her and her husband have totally separate finances. Almost makes me wonder why they even married in the first place. Its always been "this is mine" and "this is yours" i would never get married under those conditions. I just think you dont have to get married and keeping things separate is like having an exit plan or hedging. For some people it removes incentive to work on things as they have leverage and can also be the opposite as it makes people feel trapped so they stay in a totally broken or potentially unhealthy situation because they have to.

[Valenciawatchrepair]

Originally Posted by Etschell

This thread is off the rails.

Marriage either ends in divorce or death. 50 50 shot of either. Why are people suprised that it is the 2nd toughest thing someone goes through?

You blame attorneys for representing clients and stereotype them all. There are good attorneys and bad attorneys no matter the area of law they practice. It is not isolated to divorce. The issue is people dont like divorce because it hits home.

And the odds of the man vs the woman getting the crappy end of the deal in a divorce are 50/50 too??

[JasoninDenver]

Originally Posted by Etschell

The best lawyers tell the client what they need to hear not what they want to hear. I work with lawyers every single day.

EXACTLY!

The problem is the OP’s ex more than the lawyer. The ex would find another lawyer in a heartbeat if the current guy kicks the bucket tomorrow. Lawyers are not the cause of this but a natural extension of both the good and bad sides of human nature.

It is so easy to blame the lawyers. But lawyers are just people (good and bad) and they are doing what their clients want them to achieve.

The bad lawyers have an inability to tell the clients that their expectations are unrealistic. The good lawyers tell them they are off base and either get the client in line with reality or watch them walk out the door.

I practiced law for 25 years. Divorce for 10 and personal injury for the full 25. I have dealt with an equal mix of scumbags and outstanding lawyers. Just like everyday life. Why would anyone expect lawyers to be different?

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by superdog

I don’t completely disagree with you. BUT everyone has their own perspective, right? And that’s pretty black and white.

I got married at 40. I own a relatively successful business and had just sold another.

I made my wife sign a prenup. She originally said she wouldn’t. I then told her we wouldn’t get married. She relented.

I worked my entire life to get where I am. I don’t plan on splitting it. I also don’t plan on getting divorced. I love my wife. And I’m dedicated to her.

But she was 30. Came into the marriage with all her school debt and an unsure career future. I told her to do whatever she wants. Go back to school, apply for whatever, get a job she loves without worry of financial gain, or take as much time as necessary to work towards a career that makes her a ton of money. Her call completely with no pressure either way. She realized the unique position she was in and made her choice.

We have no kids.

She is now a fitness teacher and manages two super successful studios. Her classes are sold out weeks in advance. She’s crushing it. They actually just gave her 2.5% to ensure she has some skin in the game. And to guarantee they keep her. She’s that good.

She also has almost zero responsibilities in regards to taking care of home costs. I asked her only to do her best to pay down her student loans.

I can assure you, if something happens, and things go south, no chance I’d feel it’s fair to split funds. I’d surely do right by her. But not to the tune of half.

And again, I feel there is zero chance of things going south. But I know more divorced people than I do in happy marriages. And the stats show one needs to be wary.

I agree with what you’ve said. But to a certain degree.

You sound like someone who TOTALLY has their sh#t together and everything you say makes perfect sense.

But I think where the nasty divorces come into play is when there is the number one outrage that comes into a persons life, that being betrayal. Cheating on ones spouse and then using children as pawns in divorce can take any cerebral transaction into the a whole other level that becomes war. That betrayal eats at people who can them become bitter and crazy.

But the fact of the matter a marriage is a business decision along with an emotional one and if one party comes in with more assets then prenups should be a part of the equation.

And all this being said I think marriage arbitrators are far better than adversarial divorce lawyers at getting people fair settlements and moving on with their lives.

[superstarmar]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

I always pick the ugliest lawyer.

Never lost a case.

I'll give you that CJ... 100 %

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by Valenciawatchrepair

And the odds of the man vs the woman getting the crappy end of the deal in a divorce are 50/50 too??

The spouse who earns money or comes from wealth always walks away better off if it is simply the financial aspect that is the issue. They can earn it back.

Over simplification I know but overall that is generally what I see.

[scarlet knight]

I represented injured workers in workplace accidents. I received 20% of the amount of my client’s award. 60% came from insurance company, 40% from my client’s award. If I got my client got nothing, I got nothing.

So the more I obtained for my client, the more I obtained. Our interests were aligned.

Most of the attorneys that I encountered were ethical and strongly represented their client’s interests. Like any field, there were bad lawyers, shady operators and the unethical. Other lawyers figure out who they are and they are often dealt with appropriately by lawyers, judges and ethics authorities.

I dabbled in family/divorce law when I was younger. I would want nothing to do with it. Too much emotion, not really about legal issues.