Grey sellers and polishing - thoughts?

[Hub6152]

Originally Posted by Atone

You misspelled “I’m being obtuse, overly literal and over-employing semantics”



Fixed it for you.

And you might want to learn what a Grey market watch actually is so that when you post another ill informed and poorly constructed comment it doesn’t get taken so obtusely, semantically and literally!!

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by Hub6152

And you might want to learn what a Grey market watch actually is so that when you post another ill informed and poorly constructed comment it doesn’t get taken so obtusely, semantically and literally!!

There are no grey market Rolex watches. The unworn watches available from secondary resellers are all technically pre owned.

These resellers also sell worn watches of various ages, all of which are refinished to some degree to remove wear marks and surface scratches.

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by Gotgolf52

A polish/wax car doesn’t take metal or paint away but polishing the watch does take metal away. Beside the question is reseller should be transparency that they have polish the watch to make it near new. Whether people want to buy it or not after their honest answer is up to them. But reseller said no polish but they did polish it make them a liar and maybe they lies more than just polishing.

Polishing does remove paint.

Waxing, or any surface coating does not.

[jimcameron]

Originally Posted by Atone

The question is more about disclosure.

Why not just ask if you are considering a used watch. Or assume that any used watch you might buy from a reseller has at least been CapeCod cloth "polished". For 99% of the second hand watch buyers, they want it polished. Do you think that it devalues the watch, assuming it is done correctly?

[Brew]

My understanding is that in order to properly polish a watch, the bezel must be removed, which may void any remaining warranty.

True?

[errol0_7]

I have sent a Hulk back before now as the shape of the case had been rounded by polishing.

Saying that most of the watches I have picked grey up have been ok

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by GMT Freak

All preowned watches are polished. It just matters if they are overpolished or not and this depends on the individual to decide if it’s acceptable for them or not.

This. It always amuses me that people actually think that 4 year old watch they are buying from a dealer is unpolished. They are almost ALL polished. Anything that wasn't purchased 6 months or less ago comes to you polished.

One very respected dealer we all know sends almost every watch they get to LAWW and gets them cleaned up immediately for sale. That is actually a good thing compared to 20-30 years ago when they just starting grinding on them in house.

Every dealer I have done business with, and it is quite a few, have all told me they always have watches touched up.

But dealers are more cognizant of the fact that people want them as unmolested as possible now, hence sending everything to LAWW or just giving them very LIGHT in house touch ups.

That is why this unpolished hysteria amuses me. People took a concept from the vintage collecting community, where 60 year old subs can in fact suffer greatly from decades of overpolishing, and have applied it to all watches even those from 2000 to present. Lugs are thicker now, polishing is usually (not always) much more controlled, and the watches are decades newer and so have usually had one or two touch ups at most if they were born since 2000. It's not a big deal. At all.

Guess what, in 90% of cases if you are buying a watch a few years old it has been touched up no matter what anyone says. And it really doesn't matter with modern Rolex.

If you are a hardcore NO POLISH person, then buy everything new, or deal with other collectors and private sellers imho.

p.s. I just sent my excellent condition Flat 4 Kermit in to RSC for service, and I requested a light polish. One tiny case side ding and swirls on the bracelet. The horror. Heh.

[rambo99]

from my observation all used watches in grey dealer shops are polished. and usually they do it really well. over polished watches are usually due to cover up of deep scratches, and will sell cheaper accordingly.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by RJRJRJ

If it doesn't say unpolished, it's probably been polished. And if it says unpolished, it's still probably been polished.

Could not have said it better myself.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Atone

I’m coming to learn that many (if not all) grey market sellers polish the watches before sales. I don’t think I have ever seen this disclosed in any sales threads and, having bought from a number of them, something I would have like to have known. What are your thoughts on this practice not being made transparent? I never polish my watches, not even at services. Seems like someone taking this liberty to have a watch show better and not disclosing it is quite disappointing but maybe I’m just being idealistic? Clearly I’m naive on this issue as most folks I’ve talked to were fully aware this happens.

Today there is more internet generated hype about polishing than the actual watches, mostly from the anti polish miss informed brigade, god knows why.Below a picture of my own personal working tool watch SD,it was used and many times abused for many years with well over 600 hours underwater used as a real working tool.And has been serviced and polished by 3 different RSC world wide,picture taken in Singapore after last service.This working tool watch has seen more use that today's mainly pampered watches will see in ten lifetimes.This anti-polish with any modern day Rolex is complete nonsense as long as its done correctly, or you only polish at normal routine RSC service say every 8-10 years. Polishing is not a problem with any modern Rolex watch as they are designed to be refinished,what is a problem is those who want to polish every time they see the slightest scratch and there are plenty of those reading the many posts on forum.And in general today's Rolex watches do not have a hard life so the amount of metal removed in service is just a few tiny microns.And in general today's mainly pampered watches could have 5-6 services when done correctly before you would notice any real case difference around 45-50 years of wearing.

[Sandpit]

Originally Posted by padi56

This looks incredible! Completely off topic but my grandparents used to live in Benllech. Lovely part of the world.

[Keyetty]

If I sell a a watch to a gray should I have it polished before to get more $€£ or does it make no difference? Talking just light scratches on the clasp.


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[THC]

Greys call it —- “getting the watch, retail ready”

[brandrea]

FWIW, if the watch shows no sign of minor scratches or swirls, I’ve always assumed that all watches have had some sort of a touch up if they are not sold as BNIB

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by THC

Greys call it —- “getting the watch, retail ready”

I agree, you’re on a roll today Tom

[JodyHighroller]

Originally Posted by Devildog

Polishing does remove paint.

Waxing, or any surface coating does not.

It doesn't remove paint per say, but more so from the clear coat thickness.

[amh]

Originally Posted by Atone

I’m coming to learn that many (if not all) grey market sellers polish the watches before sales. I don’t think I have ever seen this disclosed in any sales threads and, having bought from a number of them, something I would have like to have known. What are your thoughts on this practice not being made transparent? I never polish my watches, not even at services. Seems like someone taking this liberty to have a watch show better and not disclosing it is quite disappointing but maybe I’m just being idealistic? Clearly I’m naive on this issue as most folks I’ve talked to were fully aware this happens.

I've never seen an unpolished watch except on ebay and private forums such as TRF. These all polish:
- The big name trusted sellers (watches all seem to look like new)
- Mall jewelry stores (avoid!)
- ADs with preowned stock (they seem to do a good job)
- Independent jewelers (watches here usually look terrible )

If the TS says "new in box" then I'll assume it's not polished.

[quadraaa]

Is it a good idea to polish a watch before selling it? I have an unpolished Omega Seamaster Diver 300 which I am planning to sell. It's 4 years old and was used as a daily, so there are quite some scratches all over it, but nothing really deep.

[jrs146]

I will agree that the unpolished hype has become a little crazy. However there really are a ton of bad polishing jobs out there. Even the good ones seem to leave traces of evidence. On my recent hunt for a 16710 I must have looked at 50 different watches. Out of the 50 I’d venture to guess 45 of them had been polished and most of those were not done well. Even just one polishing on a 5-digit seems to have the possibility of leaving evidence that many collectors are trying to avoid. I would venture to guess that even Rolex doesn’t take too much care when doing a polish and a lot of these watches were probably serviced by Rolex.

Now I’m not saying that 45 out of 50 weren’t nice watches. Many of them were. But for someone who is looking at the minute details specifically on 5-digits will find that most polish jobs eliminate a lot of those details. Obviously when you step into 4-digit territory it only becomes harder and harder as more watches have had multiple polishings.

I’m not saying I wouldn’t own a watch that has had a proper polishing. But I do absolutely think that polishing a watch, even a good one can alter it from it’s factory state. That’s why many people care.


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[Devildog]

Originally Posted by JodyHighroller

It doesn't remove paint per say, but more so from the clear coat thickness.

I was posting in generic terms. And not all vehicles have a clear coat top layer

Bottom line is, polishing a car removes material




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[nolan386]

Everything is NOS SLIDER MINT. Doesn’t matter what you think.


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[Mystro]

Originally Posted by mjr24

It's a watch. Be serious.

Would you demand to know how many times a car was waxed and polished before you bought it? Didn't think so.

And, yes, it's the SAME thing.

Exactly. There is a difference from being picky and having a clinical disorder manifest itself into being normal expectations. It’s a piece of jewelry.

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Exactly. There is a difference from being picky and having a clinical disorder manifest itself into being normal expectations. It’s a piece of jewelry.

I get the car analogy. But if you were looking at a car and the front end was rounded off and the Mercedes logo as polished down flat to the hood I think people would indeed ask questions.

I know this is an extreme scenario and the OP was more talking about newer watches and touch ups. But I’ve just seen so many watches with terrible polish jobs that I’m very hesitant to have any of mine ever meet a polishing wheel. Even a brillo pad can change the factory grain if not done with skilled hands.

[watchwatcher]

Originally Posted by springer

This "is it polished" business has gone beyond the pale. When discussing modern preowned watches, what's wrong with a watch being refinished? Yes, refinished is the proper term - not polished.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I've met very few buyers that like ratty, nicked-up and scratched watches especially when purchasing a late model preowned model.

There is absolutely nothing improper with a properly refinished Rolex.

This "unpolished" business is forum mantra which the young masses have fell for. Most Rolex buyers don't hang out on the watch forums and don't care to buy worn and dinged-up looking watches.

I suggest the OP ask the seller the next time he considers a purchase about any refinishing that has been done to his intended purchase to save him from any future frustration.

Couldn't agree more.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Atone

Even RSC will warn you away from unnecessary or premature polishing. I wonder why they would do that?

As a supporting comment for this discussion this is is extremely problematic.
RSC has demonstrated time and time again that they will polish a watch without the owners consent or request and don’t even go down the road of respecting the elements of a vintage watch.

Yes Preowned watches are polished.
Disclosure is the photographic evidence provided in the FS posting.
If one receives a watch that is not accurately represented in the photographs, they have a gripe.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by subtona

As a supporting comment for this discussion this is is extremely problematic.
RSC has demonstrated time and time again that they will polish a watch without the owners consent or request and don’t even go down the road of respected the elements of a vintage watch.

Yes Preowned watches are polished.
Disclosure is the photographic evidence provided in the FS posting.
If one receives a watch that is not accurately represented in the photographs, they have a gripe.

This is a good point. These watches are almost all polished if you are buying preowned, and the pictures, and visual inspection when you get it, tell the tale.

The vast majority of watches sold as "unpolished" have in fact, been polished. I have had several dealers tell me this. This is also why true NOS in stickers watches can sell for multiples of a standard model. The only way to for sure get a mint untouched example is to get one with stickers. Otherwise, 90+% chance your watch has been polished, refinished or touched up if it is over 6 months old and dealer (any dealer - AD consignment, TS, grey, etc.) sold.

I think lots of people confuse the need for unpolished with the need for well polished. I have seen some terrible jobs. I agree that you want to avoid those watches. But it is obvious when one is butchered. This isn't hard to divine. The vast majority of refinished watches are fine. If you are really concerned, just send it to ABC or LAWW or one of a handful of other top level restorers that are well known to this board. They can make anything look factory again.

I am a collector, so I understand collectors desire to have watches just so. But, I have long thought this polished stuff has gone totally over the top, and for the most part is factually incorrect. Look for well polished, not unpolished, because the latter rarely exists outside of NOS with stickers.

[delboylee]

Most will have been polished. If that's not your thing, buy new from an AD :)

[Atone]

Originally Posted by Hub6152

And you might want to learn what a Grey market watch actually is so that when you post another ill informed and poorly constructed comment it doesn’t get taken so obtusely, semantically and literally!!

Someone’s having a bad day. Lol

[Atone]

Originally Posted by Swaye

This is a good point. These watches are almost all polished if you are buying preowned, and the pictures, and visual inspection when you get it, tell the tale.

The vast majority of watches sold as "unpolished" have in fact, been polished. I have had several dealers tell me this. This is also why true NOS in stickers watches can sell for multiples of a standard model. The only way to for sure get a mint untouched example is to get one with stickers. Otherwise, 90+% chance your watch has been polished, refinished or touched up if it is over 6 months old and dealer (any dealer - AD consignment, TS, grey, etc.) sold.

I think lots of people confuse the need for unpolished with the need for well polished. I have seen some terrible jobs. I agree that you want to avoid those watches. But it is obvious when one is butchered. This isn't hard to divine. The vast majority of refinished watches are fine. If you are really concerned, just send it to ABC or LAWW or one of a handful of other top level restorers that are well known to this board. They can make anything look factory again.

I am a collector, so I understand collectors desire to have watches just so. But, I have long thought this polished stuff has gone totally over the top, and for the most part is factually incorrect. Look for well polished, not unpolished, because the latter rarely exists outside of NOS with stickers.

I appreciate all of the input. I suspect where things got off for me was the admitted naïveté around the practice. My question was more about whether or not these resellers should make this practice of “cleaning up” a watch more well known. But I get the other side that it’s not super relevant to most.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by Atone

I appreciate all of the input. I suspect where things got off for me was the admitted naïveté around the practice. My question was more about whether or not these resellers should make this practice of “cleaning up” a watch more well known. But I get the other side that it’s not super relevant to most.

Totally get it. This is a place to ask questions.

To be completely honest, many dealers admit to having polished watches, but many others knowingly mislead buyers. So I think it is helpful for the general community to know that most all of these watches are polished, in the event they did not already know that.

And they probably should do a better job of being honest about condition, but it is what it is, and for those folks who have bought dozens of watches over the years, they/we know the score. But newer folks to the hobby probably take "unpolished" at face value and may not be able to tell the difference either way.

So some knowledge is good, for everyone.

I can tell you that the "no polish" thing is sort of a TRF phenomena. Or at least originated here I think. The vast majority of watch buyers just want a nice watch and could care less.