AP demand increasing

[roxobox]

I sold my white dial Daytona (for a profit) and intend to invest it into another AP.

I managed to get a black dial 15500 Royal Oak as a newcomer with no purchase history thanks to a kind AD who had allocations and allows first come first serve. Now I have my BLNR, 15500 and a few other pieces.

Having owned the white dial 116500ln and then getting an AP I see now what people are saying when it comes to AP fit and finish.

The Daytona isn’t a $25,000 watch that’s for sure.

[ufboy73]

Idk....i think tyler has it right, they are just different brands with different strong suits that tend to attract different buying interests.

Sure, the ‘real’ price vs value gap may have narrowed between them...but a rolex is still a hell of a daily beater in the SS sport luxury watch market compared to an AP.

I generally appreciate AP more - but there are absolutely times that i’d rather wear a rolex...and if i had a limit on how many watches i could have, id possibly lean even more toward rolex.

[thekman]

Some people just overcomplicate things. Yes sure, Rolex and AP are very different brands and make different watches. However, at the end of the day most of us WIS like both brands and end up owning one or more from each anyway. In that sense I dont know what some of the posters mean by "a rolex buyer wouldn't buy an AP". I agree with OP and I am one of those people. I own a 5 digit LV sub and my desire was to add to it a BLNR and down the road a daytona, however, due to current market situation I am being asked to pay double for both watches. Well, a few months ago I went into the NYC AP boutique and was able to place a downpayment for a black 15500 with no previous purchase history. In my mind it was really easy, a 17k Blnr or a 19.2 AP RO. I went the AP route. (still waiting for delivery )

[ufboy73]

Originally Posted by thekman

Some people just overcomplicate things. Yes sure, Rolex and AP are very different brands and make different watches. However, at the end of the day most of us WIS like both brands and end up owning one or more from each anyway. In that sense I dont know what some of the posters mean by "a rolex buyer wouldn't buy an AP". I agree with OP and I am one of those people. I own a 5 digit LV sub and my desire was to add to it a BLNR and down the road a daytona, however, due to current market situation I am being asked to pay double for both watches. Well, a few months ago I went into the NYC AP boutique and was able to place a downpayment for a black 15500 with no previous purchase history. In my mind it was really easy, a 17k Blnr or a 19.2 AP RO. I went the AP route. (still waiting for delivery )

I dont believe most people buying rolex are WIS like us...i dont think its WIS like us that are driving speculative price levels.

[lianghee]

I feel the same. Over here in Asia, people are buying rolex due to its hype and for speculation. Some even comparing SS Rolex models with gold bars lol. It is ridiculous and I hope these group of people stay away from AP.


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[AK797]

Lots of talk on the Rolex forum about frustrated buyers looking at AP now, as well as PMs, as the grey market has made these alternatives more viable.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by ufboy73

Idk....i think tyler has it right, they are just different brands with different strong suits that tend to attract different buying interests.

Sure, the ‘real’ price vs value gap may have narrowed between them...but a rolex is still a hell of a daily beater in the SS sport luxury watch market compared to an AP.

I generally appreciate AP more - but there are absolutely times that i’d rather wear a rolex...and if i had a limit on how many watches i could have, id possibly lean even more toward rolex.

I don't think a first time Rolex buyer would switch, but once they have a Rolex or two and have been on this forum for a while they can switch over/graduate to other brands far easier, esp if the price is now more right.

[benlee]

For those that are frustrated with Rolex and want to goto AP instead, they might end up in the same boat, I think. Visited both AP boutiques in Singapore and the inventory level is so low I have never seen the shelves that empty. They only have a few ladies Royal Oak and PM pieces on display. Not even an offshore in sight. I didn't even bother to ask them about any allocation since I am not looking to buy anything new from them. But it shows me they are follow Rolex's playbook.

Oh btw, for those that are keen, there are plenty of Code watch available.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by benlee

For those that are frustrated with Rolex and want to goto AP instead, they might end up in the same boat, I think. Visited both AP boutiques in Singapore and the inventory level is so low I have never seen the shelves that empty. They only have a few ladies Royal Oak and PM pieces on display. Not even an offshore in sight. I didn't even bother to ask them about any allocation since I am not looking to buy anything new from them. But it shows me they are follow Rolex's playbook.

Oh btw, for those that are keen, there are plenty of Code watch available.

the whole idea that people are floating AP as an alternative tells me its 99% talk. Go try to get a lot of AP's and its the same story.

AP has its Daytona, sub, GMT, sky dweller type models too.


Its not even a fair comparison if you are substituting a hot Rolex for a non hot AP as hot model buyers are going to want a similarly hot watch if they do switch brands as otherwise why not just buy a YM instead of a Sub? its closer to what you wanted initially anyway. Because its not hot thats why

[benlee]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

the whole idea that people are floating AP as an alternative tells me its 99% talk. Go try to get a lot of AP's and its the same story.

AP has its Daytona, sub, GMT, sky dweller type models too.


Its not even a fair comparison if you are substituting a hot Rolex for a non hot AP as hot model buyers are going to want a similarly hot watch if they do switch brands as otherwise why not just buy a YM instead of a Sub? its closer to what you wanted initially anyway. Because its not hot thats why

Yup, and for those thinking AP SS Sports RO are easier to get after being "frustrated" by Rolex AD might be in a for a shock. That said, even if just 5% of Rolex buyers decided to go after AP, that will produce a strong upsurge in demand from AP perspective if you compare their relative production figures. No wonder RO prices are spiking. But I also think a correction is due soon with the global economy forecast becoming increasingly gloomy.

End of the day, this hobby is actually a lot more enjoyable back in the older days where there were much better availability with stable prices and we talked about the watches themselves, than all these "shortage" and constant speculation of value going up or down. I used to enjoy visiting ADs and boutiques during weekends, there were actual watches available to try on, and had nice chat about watches. Now, there are only empty shelves and listening to sales rep talking BS about how difficult and in demand their watches are, I guess they must also get tired of constantly repeating this to every customer.

[scarface27]

Originally Posted by benlee

Yup, and for those thinking AP SS Sports RO are easier to get after being "frustrated" by Rolex AD might be in a for a shock. That said, even if just 5% of Rolex buyers decided to go after AP, that will produce a strong upsurge in demand from AP perspective if you compare their relative production figures. No wonder RO prices are spiking. But I also think a correction is due soon with the global economy forecast becoming increasingly gloomy.

End of the day, this hobby is actually a lot more enjoyable back in the older days where there were much better availability with stable prices and we talked about the watches themselves, than all these "shortage" and constant speculation of value going up or down. It used to enjoy visiting ADs and boutiques during weekends, there were actual watches available to try on, and had nice chat about watches. Now, there are only empty shelves and listening to sales rep talking BS about how difficult and in demand their watches are, I guess they must also get tired of constantly repeating this to every customer.

Well said Ben - the whole AP "Boutique" model is actually quite off-putting. Walk into any AP or RM Boutique and they will barely have any product available. Ask them about a 15407ST/OR or a RM 11-03 and you get a condescending smirk or sneer.

What doesn't seem to surprise me is the fact you could goto any reputed grey market dealer and they will have more product that 5 AP Boutiques combined.

The open secret here is that brands are selling to the grey market dealers directly through the back door and actually are quite happy to see their product being bought and sold for 2X the official retail - it makes their product all the more sought after.

I don't see this premium nonsense lasting for too long - geopolitical events (HK & US China trade issues) have already started to take a toll on the luxury watch market.

[JR16]

Agree, Ben!


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[P2725TMB]

Originally Posted by benlee

End of the day, this hobby is actually a lot more enjoyable back in the older days where there were much better availability with stable prices and we talked about the watches themselves, than all these "shortage" and constant speculation of value going up or down. It used to enjoy visiting ADs and boutiques during weekends, there were actual watches available to try on, and had nice chat about watches. Now, there are only empty shelves and listening to sales rep talking BS about how difficult and in demand their watches are, I guess they must also get tired of constantly repeating this to every customer.

I totally agree with you Ben! All the 'unavailability' just makes me less keen to own, not more.

[Albusdabbledore]

Originally Posted by thekman

Some people just overcomplicate things. Yes sure, Rolex and AP are very different brands and make different watches. However, at the end of the day most of us WIS like both brands and end up owning one or more from each anyway. In that sense I dont know what some of the posters mean by "a rolex buyer wouldn't buy an AP". I agree with OP and I am one of those people. I own a 5 digit LV sub and my desire was to add to it a BLNR and down the road a daytona, however, due to current market situation I am being asked to pay double for both watches. Well, a few months ago I went into the NYC AP boutique and was able to place a downpayment for a black 15500 with no previous purchase history. In my mind it was really easy, a 17k Blnr or a 19.2 AP RO. I went the AP route. (still waiting for delivery )

You’ll be so pleased when that 15500 lands I love my black dial. I really just need to get a 1.5 link to make it a tad more snug though


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[thekman]

Originally Posted by Albusdabbledore

You’ll be so pleased when that 15500 lands I love my black dial. I really just need to get a 1.5 link to make it a tad more snug though


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I can't wait for it!


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[Plai]

I had a 26300 and feared the service cost for some reason. It didn’t get a lot of wear, so I sold it last year. AP service costs could turn off some buyers, since they are about double what Rolex is.
I am craving a new 15500 now though. And it has nothing to do with Rolex supply issues or value proposition. I simply want something that has a unique look relative to the rest of my collection, but also appeals to me.

[lianghee]

Originally Posted by benlee

Yup, and for those thinking AP SS Sports RO are easier to get after being "frustrated" by Rolex AD might be in a for a shock. That said, even if just 5% of Rolex buyers decided to go after AP, that will produce a strong upsurge in demand from AP perspective if you compare their relative production figures. No wonder RO prices are spiking. But I also think a correction is due soon with the global economy forecast becoming increasingly gloomy.

End of the day, this hobby is actually a lot more enjoyable back in the older days where there were much better availability with stable prices and we talked about the watches themselves, than all these "shortage" and constant speculation of value going up or down. I used to enjoy visiting ADs and boutiques during weekends, there were actual watches available to try on, and had nice chat about watches. Now, there are only empty shelves and listening to sales rep talking BS about how difficult and in demand their watches are, I guess they must also get tired of constantly repeating this to every customer.

Just 3 years, it changed so much!
In 2016, even managed to try on a 15202. at boutique and a 15400st blue dial was readily available for me to grab lol. But I was only interested in ROO then.

2017, managed to get a 26331st blue dial upon walk in

2018, put on forever wait list for 15400st blue. Now carried over to 15500st

2019, I hope they are not playing the same game with ROO. I am craving for a ceramic ROO.

[H_UK]

I think people have just realised you get so much more watch for your money with AP with the crazy Rolex pricing as it is these days. When I bought my BLNR and LV They were no way near how popular and well known they are now. I've had teenagers comment on my 'batman' and 'hulk!'. Apart from a few exceptions WoS Knightsbridge and LHR T5 the service from most Rolex dealers is awful. Contrast that with AP, the overall package is just much much better. I do see APs much more now. I work in London (west end) and I saw 3 other people wearing them on the Hammersmith and city line tube last week including a lady rocking her 15450 blue dial who gave me a cheeky wink to indicate she clocked my 15400!

[yelfel]

Maybe Rolex is making a point and their SS sport watches should be priced retail in the 15-20k range. $9k for the Hulk or BLNR (retail) is low.

[Baco Noir]

For all you guys saying mint 15400's are $25k, I just listed silver dial 15400st after complete service from AP Clearwater for under $23k, just sayin'...

[V25V]

I just wish AP would come out with another RO at ~39mm other than the 202. I know they will not and why they made the jump to 41mm but that just does not work for me most of the time.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Baco Noir

For all you guys saying mint 15400's are $25k, I just listed silver dial 15400st after complete service from AP Clearwater for under $23k, just sayin'...

Something else in the works Roger? I recall you picked that up right around the time I bought my first RO (mine was black dial). You are a much more logical buyer than me! I just recounted my AP buys since then and the number is borderline embarrassing

[pepsiretail]

Originally Posted by V25V

I just wish AP would come out with another RO at ~39mm other than the 202. I know they will not and why they made the jump to 41mm but that just does not work for me most of the time.

I don't. I like that we have a special reference that is non longer made. It is much more in the old collector spirit, where older models are the collector pieces rather than new hard to get ones.

[Baco Noir]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Something else in the works Roger? I recall you picked that up right around the time I bought my first RO (mine was black dial). You are a much more logical buyer than me! I just recounted my AP buys since then and the number is borderline embarrassing

LOL - yeah, the whole hobby can be embarrassing if you share what we do with a non-WIS and my wife would argue with you about calling me logical! And yes, I have a Smurf incoming! Been wanting a PM watch for a few years and was leaning towards the RG YM but then saw the smurf at a RedBar GTG last year and a few times since and couldn’t get it out of my head.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Baco Noir

LOL - yeah, the whole hobby can be embarrassing if you share what we do with a non-WIS and my wife would argue with you about calling me logical! And yes, I have a Smurf incoming! Been wanting a PM watch for a few years and was leaning towards the RG YM but then saw the smurf at a RedBar GTG last year and a few times since and couldn’t get it out of my head.

Huge congrats. I just added my first pm Rolex (WG DD40) and I’m elated. I’m sure will be too

[V25V]

Originally Posted by pepsiretail

I don't. I like that we have a special reference that is non longer made. It is much more in the old collector spirit, where older models are the collector pieces rather than new hard to get ones.

Good point.


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[masterserg]

Originally Posted by Baco Noir

For all you guys saying mint 15400's are $25k, I just listed silver dial 15400st after complete service from AP Clearwater for under $23k, just sayin'...

Don't sell that beauty man! I sold mine a few years ago and regretted it ever since. I have the blue 400 now but the silver is special ... the way the light explodes out of it ...

[Baco Noir]

Originally Posted by masterserg

Don't sell that beauty man! I sold mine a few years ago and regretted it ever since. I have the blue 400 now but the silver is special ... the way the light explodes out of it ...

Yeah, I know. I do think I’ll regret this but the watch bug bit me and the Smurf is on order. This is the only way to pay for it.

[othertbone]

After trying to get a Daytona for over a year, and now looking at 22k+ for one on the grey market, I said to myself, "self... might as well look at a Royal Oak". If I'm spending 20k it's gonna be on AP!

[Gravity]

It seems AP has been drawing people from the PP market lately as well. Hype aside, it's hard to dispute the superior aesthetics of AP. Not sure if most have been following the posts in the PP section, but there have been several recent qc issues being posted there which can't help things for the brand either.