Buying just to flip

[10XRolex]

Oh, this is starting to get good. Hold on, let me get the popcorn before the fight scene happens.

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[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by HMHM

I think you need to understand Chiscott_29 more before you judge him. Truth is there is money on the table for the taking. I don't condone it, but if someone else does it, its their choice. It's up to AD/Boutiques to do their due diligence and blacklist these people. Unless we want to start imposing North Korean dictatorial style behaviour whereby we control what people do with their watches and money, the market is a free place.

Thank you, and I couldn’t have said this better myself. I’m a bit feisty because I think it’s clear from my history that I don’t condone blatant flipping. I certainly have operated myself in gray areas and I admit that. I’m sure purists wouldn’t approve, but I don’t seek their approval.

What you said is the reality of the hobby. There is absolutely money for the taking at every level of the game. Even if I don’t condone it myself, it’s up to the individual and it’s not for me to judge their actions. I’m also old enough to realize life throws you curveballs and sometimes you may need to sell a watch for a host of reasons. None of us were empowered as the Watch Police…


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[dauster]

I am always surprised the internet creates these super honorable people that apparently ride horses and have an honor code like gentlemen of the past. But then I open chrono24 or watch "Grey Market" and see all the watches that I could ever want - some limited to 50 pieces or less. So all of these people that supplied these watches are blacklisted ? I'm genuinely curious.

I am with Scott - do you ! if you feel like flipping is the way to go - do it. if you have some money and build a relationship for the long-term do that.

Why does the watch game have this implied gentlemen aura with some values that nobody in the real world lives by?

What do I owe these watch companies ? I like their goods and I am willing to pay good money for them and if I feel like selling a piece that I end up not liking - so what?

Or maybe somebody likes watches and figures an extra 30k in their pocket would be nice to go on a vacation or maybe it's a side hustle.

Yes, I would like some obscure watch world where everyone just buys what they want and watches that I want are readily available but that's not reality and most likely it will never come back.

EDIT: What about the ADs like Kern's in Burlingame CA that literally also have a pre-owned section and sell 2021 and 2020 Nautilus at market price ? Why is PP not all over that? Doesn't seem right to me!
What about Horolupe who started his grey market business but gets watches directly from the CEO of AP? Sounds not fishy at all.

[VogelPhoenix]

Just a random observation, but on balance, the non-flipper crowd in this thread seems to have had more luck getting hot pieces at retail, judging from the TRF posting histories. I wonder why that might be

[dauster]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Just a random observation, but on balance, the non-flipper crowd in this thread seems to have had more luck getting hot pieces at retail, judging from the TRF posting histories. I wonder why that might be

I think it's because most of them had an established relationship way before the watch market got crazy - also just an observation

[AperolSpritz]

Over the last 18 months, I refused 3 hot pieces:
- Skeleton rose gold
- White ceramic QP
- Skeleton steel

I had the cash to buy them. All in all we are talking c.$230k MSRP vs. c.$700k grey.
Take out grey premium. Probably could have sold these for c.550k to grey so making 300k profits.

Well I didn't. I am waiting for my skeleton ceramic and 50y RO specials that are coming my way.

Call me an idiot I don't care. But been buying AP since the days you were losing money on them and will continue to. An the guys know that...

[AperolSpritz]

Originally Posted by dauster

I think it's because most of them had an established relationship way before the watch market got crazy - also just an observation

Amen

[GW44]

Originally Posted by AperolSpritz

Over the last 18 months, I refused 3 hot pieces:
- Skeleton rose gold
- White ceramic QP
- Skeleton steel

I had the cash to buy them. All in all we are talking c.$230k MSRP vs. c.$700k grey.
Take out grey premium. Probably could have sold these for c.550k to grey so making 300k profits.

Well I didn't. I am waiting for my skeleton ceramic and 50y RO specials that are coming my way.

Call me an idiot I don't care. But been buying AP since the days you were losing money on them and will continue to. An the guys know that...

Well done you sir.

If you don’t get what what you’re waiting for after that loyalty I’ll burn down the AD/your Boutique for you

[911AP]

Originally Posted by AperolSpritz

Over the last 18 months, I refused 3 hot pieces:
- Skeleton rose gold
- White ceramic QP
- Skeleton steel

I had the cash to buy them. All in all we are talking c.$230k MSRP vs. c.$700k grey.
Take out grey premium. Probably could have sold these for c.550k to grey so making 300k profits.

Well I didn't. I am waiting for my skeleton ceramic and 50y RO specials that are coming my way.

Call me an idiot I don't care. But been buying AP since the days you were losing money on them and will continue to. An the guys know that...

If you could have taken all 3 and got your openwork ceramic then you would have done so. The point is you gave up 3 watches in order to stay on the list of one far more rare and more valuable than all 3 you listed.

I would have done the same thing as you lol. Most people would have. Your one watch purchase will net you more profit by your calculations than all 3 of those you mentioned. So even a pure flipper would be stupid to take the 3 you mentioned and forego the openwork ceramic. You aren't an idiot. You are actually doing a very smart move financially. Don't convince us you are losing money. You made more in profit from one watch than any money you could have lost over the years. You are ahead of the game.

[911AP]

Originally Posted by AperolSpritz

Amen

Originally Posted by dauster

I think it's because most of them had an established relationship way before the watch market got crazy - also just an observation

facts

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by AperolSpritz

Over the last 18 months, I refused 3 hot pieces:
- Skeleton rose gold
- White ceramic QP
- Skeleton steel

I had the cash to buy them. All in all we are talking c.$230k MSRP vs. c.$700k grey.
Take out grey premium. Probably could have sold these for c.550k to grey so making 300k profits.

Well I didn't. I am waiting for my skeleton ceramic and 50y RO specials that are coming my way.

Call me an idiot I don't care. But been buying AP since the days you were losing money on them and will continue to. An the guys know that...

Changing the topic a bit - is all your AP history with the same boutique or even same SA/manager, or have you been spreading things around? I understand that all the boutiques have access to purchase history and other info, but am wondering how important loyalty to a particular place or even person is.

[squall1]

I'm pretty ignorant, but how does AP find out you sold a watch? Someone brings it in for service or to be authenticated? Is that all that common shortly after being sold on the secondary market? Are there other ways I'm not thinking of?

Related question, how long before it becomes acceptable to sell something on in the eyes of AP? Never, 6 months, a year, two years? Surely it's not never?

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by squall1

I'm pretty ignorant, but how does AP find out you sold a watch? Someone brings it in for service or to be authenticated? Is that all that common shortly after being sold on the secondary market? Are there other ways I'm not thinking of?

Related question, how long before it becomes acceptable to sell something on in the eyes of AP? Never, 6 months, a year, two years? Surely it's not never?

I was told minimum 1 year, preferably 2 years after the original warranty finishes. After that it’s up to you what you want to do with the watch.

[shaunylw]

Originally Posted by squall1

I'm pretty ignorant, but how does AP find out you sold a watch? Someone brings it in for service or to be authenticated? Is that all that common shortly after being sold on the secondary market? Are there other ways I'm not thinking of?

Related question, how long before it becomes acceptable to sell something on in the eyes of AP? Never, 6 months, a year, two years? Surely it's not never?

The only way they would know is the serial number. Either it’s posted when watch is sold or someone sends it in for service.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by squall1

I'm pretty ignorant, but how does AP find out you sold a watch? Someone brings it in for service or to be authenticated? Is that all that common shortly after being sold on the secondary market? Are there other ways I'm not thinking of?

Typically, the boutique will register it under your AP account (to extend your warranty from 2 to 5 years) as a courtesy when you pick it up. If it later is registered under a different account, well, there you go.

[squall1]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Typically, the boutique will register it under your AP account (to extend your warranty from 2 to 5 years) as a courtesy when you pick it up. If it later is registered under a different account, well, there you go.

Interesting, I didn't know you could register again under a different name, but that makes sense.

A year seems reasonable, even if you realize the watch isn't for you within that time, I think it's a fair timeframe to help control things a bit. I do think there should be exceptions though, like staying within the brand to upgrade. It will be interesting to see if they implement the rumored certified pre-owned/trade-up program. I think that would help.

[Seddyspaghetti]

Yes would buy for the purchase history then flip if i didnt really want it.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Seddyspaghetti

Yes would buy for the purchase history then flip if i didnt really want it.

I'm not sure what good the purchase history would do after being flagged as a flipper (all of this discussion suffers from the fact that the OPs scenario is disconnected from the AP reality, in particular at the AP owned boutiques).

[Seddyspaghetti]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

I'm not sure what good the purchase history would do after being flagged as a flipper (all of this discussion suffers from the fact that the OPs scenario is disconnected from the AP reality, in particular at the AP owned boutiques).

Well obviously, don’t get caught flipping. Lol.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Seddyspaghetti

Well obviously, don’t get caught flipping. Lol.

The boutiques will know who they sold the watch to - not getting caught would then require the subsequent owner not to register the flipped watch with AP. For me, registering with AP would be the first thing to do with any new-to-me watch.

[SpeedyTuomas]

I would buy it and think about it later. Unsure ADs care what you do with your watch collection and you get a spending history.

[CarlOver]

Seems like the question the question that needs to be asked is do you to be a buyer of future watches from your authorized dealer. If yes, then you might be risking the opportunity for future purchases. I understand it from the dealers point of view.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by SpeedyTuomas

I would buy it and think about it later. Unsure ADs care what you do with your watch collection and you get a spending history.

If as a small-time customer at an AP boutique you manage to get a hot piece allocated and turn around and flip it, that is more-than-likely the end of your AP-at-retail journey. ADs may have a different calculus, but that's one of the reasons why they are on the road to extinction.

[Cobar65]

I have mixed feelings about this. The only way for me to purchase a new Rolex is through a grey dealer, simply because I refuse to spend tens of thousands on things I neither want nor need. If I want something, I buy it, pay the premium, and be done with it. However, since I no longer have any interest in “new Rolex,” I guess that’s not a problem anymore. The great thing is that the flipper prices increase the value of all Rolex across the board, vintage included.

[Jsol]

Originally Posted by Seddyspaghetti

Well obviously, don’t get caught flipping. Lol.

My AP boutique keeps a close eye on my watch registry with them. This year I was allocated a 34mm black ceramic and a 15202. Before I got call on each we talked about my collection and what would compliment it next. If you resell that fast and the watch is registered to someone else, I'd be fairly certain you'd be low in totem pole.


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[m3jasper]

Originally Posted by Jsol

My AP boutique keeps a close eye on my watch registry with them. This year I was allocated a 34mm black ceramic and a 15202. Before I got call on each we talked about my collection and what would compliment it next. If you resell that fast and the watch is registered to someone else, I'd be fairly certain you'd be low in totem pole.


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You wouldn’t be on the totem pole at all once they find out.

[1William]

I am not sure what I would do. Either way it would be my choice.

[Willyjo]

Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix

With AP you will get banned the moment they find out you flipped it. The online registrations give it away.

This is absolutely correct if you buy from an AP boutique. You can flip from AD's.

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[Kittayos]

Originally Posted by AperolSpritz

Over the last 18 months, I refused 3 hot pieces:
- Skeleton rose gold
- White ceramic QP
- Skeleton steel

I had the cash to buy them. All in all we are talking c.$230k MSRP vs. c.$700k grey.
Take out grey premium. Probably could have sold these for c.550k to grey so making 300k profits.

Well I didn't. I am waiting for my skeleton ceramic and 50y RO specials that are coming my way.

Call me an idiot I don't care. But been buying AP since the days you were losing money on them and will continue to. An the guys know that...

Those 3 pieces could fetch $750 easily.

The 50-yr anniversary edition will come in 34, 37, 39 and 41mm plus 15500 in diamond baguette. I’m already confirmed to get one 39 and one 41 each next year. Now waiting for 15416ce just like you. Surprisingly, we might see 15600 replacing 15500. Who knows.

[AperolSpritz]

Originally Posted by 911AP

If you could have taken all 3 and got your openwork ceramic then you would have done so. The point is you gave up 3 watches in order to stay on the list of one far more rare and more valuable than all 3 you listed.

I would have done the same thing as you lol. Most people would have. Your one watch purchase will net you more profit by your calculations than all 3 of those you mentioned. So even a pure flipper would be stupid to take the 3 you mentioned and forego the openwork ceramic. You aren't an idiot. You are actually doing a very smart move financially. Don't convince us you are losing money. You made more in profit from one watch than any money you could have lost over the years. You are ahead of the game.

Well first thanks for saying that but yes and no.
True they told me they basically couldn't allocate me the steel and ceramic skeleton so for these two pieces I had to chose. But no trouble getting the rose gold one and the ceramic QP on top of one of the two others mentioned above. And frankly I now regret not taking the QP white ceramic but that is another question. At the time I thought it was too much an Ibiza/Mykonos only watch ;-)

And just to be clear, I didn't get the 15416CE yet, and many of you told me "a bird in the hand..."

But what my SA actually told me is that refusing all these pieces actually raised my profile with AP (as they saw am not a flipper and truly was going for what I liked/wanted).

After having said all this, I do realize the insanity of putting so much thoughts and efforts into analyzing how to get the "honor and opportunity" to spend a hundred thousand dollars on a watch !