I admit it

[Cloudchaser]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

nope

Gotcha. Appreciate the knowledge you've dropped here.

When I sell watches for more than DavidSW would ever dream of giving me (every watch I sell, in fact), what is the name for that price then?

It's a rhetorical question. I buy at wholesale (from people without the interest or ability to realize market price) and I sell at retail/market.

And I do it all without consulting DavidSW (admittedly best in class) at all.

It's just not any more difficult than that. And I'm just a very small fish.

[Cloudchaser]

Exactly...."broker" price is the "wholesale" for "grays." I'm not talking AD wholesale or MSRP. I'm referring to broker/market.

Regardless, semantics aside, what DavidSW pays private sellers for inventory is not market price. Not at all.

Originally Posted by thenewrick

nope

Market value is whatever people pay for it. Wholesale is how much AD's get them Rolex. There's Grey "wholesale" but that's not really a thing. It's like walking into a pawn shop and selling a engagement ring and telling people you're a jewelry wholesaler. Not really.

People just don't like to admit the actual cost of goods because they're embarrassed they paid or sold for worse than "market" value and got "low balled"

OP probably paid $23,700 plus shipping, fees, taxes and if they tried to sell it at market value now would get about what they paid for it. That's pretty good I think!

C24 says my watch is up 100% in value, Wowzers! Reality is I paid around $6,400 and I could get $8,000 cash for it; a 20% return over 2 years. Reality not the same as hype. I'm still thrilled though. Love my watch and would be totally okay trading it in for a small profit one day or selling individually if the situation was feasible. I've also had issues with sketchy folks on the forum so, yea it's a common thing. Won't name names.

[dpt.calvin]

Originally Posted by Cloudchaser

Regardless, semantics aside, what DavidSW pays pays private sellers for inventory is not market price. Not at all.

Exactly. DavidSW is providing a service. He charges for that service by offering you less than market price.

[thenewrick]

"can get"

There's a lot built into that statement.

Did you include advertising cost? transaction fees? I think if you sold privately using Ebay and Paypal for advertising and seller protections you'd probably make the difference between Grey trade in sale

Unless you've got some unique benefit like reputation, clients networking etc you're probably not lifehacking you're way out of market value.

[dpt.calvin]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

"can get"

There's a lot built into that statement.

Did you include advertising cost? transaction fees? I think if you sold privately using Ebay and Paypal for advertising and seller protections you'd probably make the difference between Grey trade in sale

Unless you've got some unique benefit like reputation, clients networking etc you're probably not lifehacking you're way out of market value.

Pretty sure the cost to advertise here is just the cost of being a pledge member and then shipping. Cost is negligible.

I bought a watch here from a first time seller. Everyone has to start somewhere. I just properly vetted him and things worked out. That seller paid whatever the pledge cost is and maybe $100 for shipping.

OP - enjoy your watch. Sorry for the thread jack.

[ProCoach]

A watch, like a car, is worth what someone (not necessarily a dealer that's online and/or brick and mortar) will pay for it.

Kudos to the OP. Go get some and enjoy.

[jrs146]

Probably a little high. But I think you’re getting 25-27k private party sale if it’s clean and complete. The question is how long will this last?

Personally… I sold my hulk a long time ago when I needed funds to purchase a grail. I rarely, if ever sell watches, but at the time it seemed like a good plan. I instantly regretted it and pleaded with my AD for another one. Luckily I got another and now I know…. Regardless of price… never sell the Hulk!


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[TswaneNguni]

Demand rising by the day ,prices rising by the day .

No shortage of affluence in the world for the annual production of Rolex .
It wont change .
Its a BIG pocketed world for 830,000 annual production .

[Jojomojo]

Those prices are no joke. I've seen one traded when i was just browsing at the grey shop. Also, i noticed they don't have as much inventory as they used to. I wouldn't pay grey prices at these levels, but many more people are much richer than me anyway.

[myporsche]

Another value thread, another "hulk thread another, "FOMO" thread another, "DavidSW" thread...

I almost wish I didn't buy this watch anymore, I liked it when it was ugly and sitting in display cases no one liked them. It's almost not cool anymore with all these hype nerds not shutting up about it all over social media.

[dpt.calvin]

Originally Posted by myporsche

Another value thread, another "hulk thread another, "FOMO" thread another, "DavidSW" thread...

I almost wish I didn't buy this watch anymore, I liked it when it was ugly and sitting in display cases no one liked them. It's almost not cool anymore with all these hype nerds not shutting up about it all over social media.

And yet no one is forcing you to keep it.

[Airbag79]

Originally Posted by myporsche

Another value thread, another "hulk thread another, "FOMO" thread another, "DavidSW" thread...

I almost wish I didn't buy this watch anymore, I liked it when it was ugly and sitting in display cases no one liked them. It's almost not cool anymore with all these hype nerds not shutting up about it all over social media.

Amen.

[Db7566]

Originally Posted by myporsche

Another value thread, another "hulk thread another, "FOMO" thread another, "DavidSW" thread...

I almost wish I didn't buy this watch anymore, I liked it when it was ugly and sitting in display cases no one liked them. It's almost not cool anymore with all these hype nerds not shutting up about it all over social media.

It’s still just an “ugly” green submariner and 99 percent of the world will agree with that point. Get off the internet and enjoy the watch.


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[m j b]

Originally Posted by Cloudchaser

The confusion comes from the fact that not everyone can sell at retail/end user price.

True that. And let's not forget, very likely the OP bought the watch new, and it's now used, so that implicitly drops the price significantly.

It's not so easy selling a $20K+ watch especially if you're a first time seller and have no sales feedback history.

Originally Posted by myporsche

I liked it when it was ugly and sitting in display cases no one liked them. It's almost not cool anymore with all these hype nerds not shutting up about it all over social media.

LOL

Originally Posted by Db7566

It’s still just an “ugly” green submariner and 99 percent of the world will agree with that point. Get off the internet and enjoy the watch.

I bought my hulk new below MSRP and sold it a year later at a slight loss (that's how things used to work in the "good old days"). I never regretted selling it, except when I see threads like this and realize how much money I lost by not sitting on it for 4 years.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by m j b

It's not so easy selling a $20K+ watch especially if you're a first time seller and have no sales feedback history.

The easiest way is to put it into a specialist watch auction.

[Bizcut1]

It's a watch.

[Madman37]

Originally Posted by Randy9999

A few months ago (December 2021), like everybody else I noticed that the secondary market prices for the Hulk were rising quickly. So, whether smart or dumb, I must admit that I became infected with FOMO for a watch I always wanted but never got around to buying... So I gulped hard and bought the watch from a grey dealer for $23,700. This morning I checked Chrono24 and was amazed to see that the trend has continued...

Well done for getting the watch you want. You would have had to waste your money on Jewellery or a Tudor that breaks all the time. Or a slowmaster or something you didn’t really want. Now you got the watch you want.

[subprimero]

Also take a look on WatchRecon.

[Driver8]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

If you want to know what a watch is worth, ask DavidSW for a sell value. They will email its worth to you. Then you'll know and won't have to go by rumors "C24 listings"

I have to respectfully disagree with that I'm afraid. They will email you its worth to them.

I know DavidSW is a member here, is well respected, and is a stand-up guy, etc, etc, but at the end of the day (just like any grey) he's running a business that requires him to sell products for more than he buys them for, in order to make a profit.

Like anything there's a "dealer-buy" price, a "dealer-sell" price, and the market price in the middle.

Dealer-buy < Market < Dealer-sell.

Therefore any grey (including DavidSW) will offer you less than the market price. Why? Because offering you the market price means they have to cover the cost of the running the business (premises, staff wages, etc) AND make a profit out of the difference between the genuine market price and the dealer-sell price. And the dealer-sell price is built entirely on the assumption than people will be prepared to pay a premium for buying from a dealer. That's a slightly risky undertaking - hence all sensible businesses hedge their bets and build in some profit right from the off.

And there's nothing wrong with that at all. But let's be clear that dealer-buy prices are not market rate.

[marc12]

Oddly enough, C24 prices for me seem to be *below* what a gray dealer has offered me.

126710BLRO - C24 - $28k - Gray Dealer offer - $30k
326934BL - C24 - $32k - Gray Dealer offer - $35k

I think dealers are buying up as many as they can leading up to rolex new releases

[gerry100]

High Internet prices are a way to entice you into a contact followed by a negotiation.

Easy to negotiate down than up

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by gerry100

High Internet prices are a way to entice you into a contact followed by a negotiation.

Easy to negotiate down than up

Nonsense. Check for yourself real values realised at auction. Read 'em and weep (or rejoice if you are me).

https://www.phillips.com/auctions/auction/NY080121

[febie111]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

Check for yourself real values realised at auction. Read 'em and weep (or rejoice if you are me).

https://www.phillips.com/auctions/auction/NY080121

Damn,$94.5K USD for a 2018 unworn Hulk,it seems unbelievable... Are these "'sold" prices plus the Auction house commission?

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by febie111

Damn,$94.5K USD for a 2018 unworn Hulk,it seems unbelievable... Are these "'sold" prices plus the Auction house commission?

It's not just Rolex, prices on many other top brands have gone berserk.

[fwhawk]

[QUOTE=febie111;11980386]Damn,$94.5K USD for a 2018 unworn Hulk,it seems unbelievable... Are these "'sold" prices plus the Auction house

I believe those include the Buyer's Premium (which is likely 27.5%). I looked at these prices after the auction and was struck by the fact that in many cases they were much higher than the watches could be purchased for in the currently crazy open market. Since people with the kind of money to bid at auctions like this are pretty shrewd financially, something seems off here.

[thenewrick]

[QUOTE=fwhawk;11982364]

Originally Posted by febie111

Damn,$94.5K USD for a 2018 unworn Hulk,it seems unbelievable... Are these "'sold" prices plus the Auction house

I believe those include the Buyer's Premium (which is likely 27.5%). I looked at these prices after the auction and was struck by the fact that in many cases they were much higher than the watches could be purchased for in the currently crazy open market. Since people with the kind of money to bid at auctions like this are pretty shrewd financially, something seems off here.

Not true about shrewdness.

I spoke with a professional auctioneer and there's many reasons why people overbid on things. It has to do with showing off/getting caught up in the moment/buyers who maybe have no idea what the item is and it's an impulse buy and other reasons. Then there's fees and other things included that make it seem like it sold for more than it did and even then the sales often fall through.

Auctions are the least accurate way to judge value and receiving an actual payment quote is the most accurate. Everything else is rumor and speculation.

[edisonstar23]

Originally Posted by donas

I would respectfully disagree with this statement. I have checked with DavidSW 5-6 times over the years when I was looking to sell/trade and the offers have been laughable.

What % below going market rate were you offered? From what I've seen Gray Market dealers like to work with 15% percent margin.

Originally Posted by febie111

Damn,$94.5K USD for a 2018 unworn Hulk,it seems unbelievable... Are these "'sold" prices plus the Auction house commission?

Thats nonsense, want to have an idea of current market price?, use this website https://watchcharts.com/ and see actual online sales and current listings.

[BigTasty]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

Nonsense. Check for yourself real values realised at auction. Read 'em and weep (or rejoice if you are me).

https://www.phillips.com/auctions/auction/NY080121

They were spot on with them estimates weren't they??

[Rori]

All Rolex watches are steadily increasing. The SD43 is now listed between 18 and 19K now.


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[Rado63]

The problem with this speculative Rolex market, is I don't know if I should wear the watch, or maintain it unworn for resale.