Marriage: how often are there arguments?

[ltmgeller]

Marriage is a two way street. If both parties don't work at it, its destined to fail.

[Clockmeister]

Originally Posted by Chester01

These questions have been investigated and would refer you to readings by John Gottman and his colleagues. Likewise Andrew Christensen and colleagues have some good reads. Both authors will offer the data you are looking for and help start to think about the broader question you are alluding to. Best of luck to you.

Thank you

[Clockmeister]

Originally Posted by joli160

I stayed too long in a marriage for the kids. It made a mess of my life but I learned to walk if it doesn’t work. I do that now with relations, jobs, friends and buying watches. Life is simply too short

It’s difficult but the less toxic relationships the better.
Yes, life goes by quickly especially when in your 60’s.

Seems everyone needs to make the decision (if in a relationship that is not working) when enough is enough.

At 65, I find divorce difficult in terms of being alone, at least for a period of time)
financial loss and immense stress.
We’ve been through counseling several times. We both know what bothers each other. But these issues continue.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Clockmeister

These questions are based on marriages that are approximately 10 +
years.

Are most marriages when both are best friends?
How often are there arguments, and/or resentments?
How often do you think about divorcing?
How many people you know seem to have a healthy relationship?
How many are glad or regret getting divorced?
How many re-marry or have a relationship?

I've been married first time 12 years, lived with someone for 4 years and married the second time for 32 years.

I've seen successful marriages where the couples live separate lives. He's doing his thing and she does hers.

That's not for me. My wife HAS to be my buddy and best friend and we do everything together but not in a clingy way.

We argue extremely rarely. A few times in 32 years. But both have to be mature enough to self evaluate whether they or their partner are having a bad day and is that the reason for the tension. Marriage is also give and take. Sometimes we do what I want and sometimes we do what she want. And that has to be done joyfully. Not kicking and screaming.

At one point in my first marriage and the second shacking up, I said to myself, I gotta get out of this. It hurts, it sucks, but you have to do it. Life is too short.

I always have relationships, when I move to LA and single after two long relationships I dated, dragged home tons of chicks for 5 years until out of the blue I asked a nurse out, who was holding a sandbag on my groin after a catheter was pulled out of a vein/artery in my inner leg, to stop the bleeding..... and we've been together since 1990.

I will add I never had kids, which can change the equation in a big way. But I had 2 failed relationships and kissed a lot of frog-ettes until I found the right one.

Good luck. We always know what to do. Follow your heart.

I don't charge for my advice and it's worth every penny.

[JasoninDenver]

Originally Posted by 77T

Arguments are weaponized discussions among the selfish. Each person must work on their own form of generosity and altruism, because we are born selfish.


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Bravo.

[JasoninDenver]

Married to my first wife for 2.5 years.

Pure torture for most of that time but stayed with it because she was 75% of what I thought I wanted in a partner. Honestly, I feared it would likely fail but hoped we could grow together and work on our problems. Everyone says marriage is work so I thought what I was going through was the work they meant.

We fought like cats and dogs over BS. Me not so much fighting as getting yelled at for some indeterminate infraction. Pulled the plug on that one after our counselor asked me if I would be happy in the relationship if nothing actually changed. I looked over at my wife in that session and said “I am done”.

I never thought I would marry again but started dating my now wife six months after my divorce was final. We disagree for sure, but we respect each other and are each willing to compromise. I quickly realized that this respect is what makes a great marriage.

Is she my best friend. Well, she is the one person in the world that I trust completely. I honestly treasure every moment we spend together. I have not had one single thought of ever divorcing her. In fact, I have nightmares that she might divorce me.

We will celebrate our 15th anniversary next week.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by OYptL

Ask 50 people and you’ll get 50 different answers.

..ask someone over 50 and you will get the right answer .

[Boopie]

Originally Posted by Clockmeister

Seems you might be a therapist. Logical and wise recommendations.
We’ve been married for 30 years. Even the day we married we had an argument and reluctantly didn’t even want to go to dinner.

I’m laid back, she is domineering and yells. Myers-Briggs Type Indicator has her a ESTJ. I’m a ISFJ. Enneagram, she is an 8, I’m a 6.
It’s not easy at all and many times draining.

Finance wise, we would both take a big hit.

Married 31 years. We have very similar values in so many crucial areas, but of course also argue and disagree. Criticism, however, needs to come from a place of love and respect.

One question to ask is, do you make each other better? I believe that we have and we do.

A wise person once observed that often the things that attracted us to our spouses are also what drive us crazy about them.

Marriage, when done well, is supposed to make us better, more mature people. It does require work. We have to set aside time to nurture it. We can’t take each other for granted. We completely trust each other, and respect each other.

You may be interested in seeing some of Jordan Peterson’s videos on relationships (available on You Tube). He discusses how marriage is supposed to make us better, but that comes about by challenging each other. We aren’t perfect beings, but we get better with genuine feedback (as we do in every other area of life). He quotes studies about ratios of positive to negative interactions with one’s spouse. It’s something like 4:1 at a minimum. So, if one’s interactions with a spouse are negative 50% of the time, that’s bad. The converse is that something like 20:1 isn’t good, either, because that means that one person is always putting on a happy face, but is probably being a weak pushover, and lets resentment build up. There are so many men who think their marriage is wonderful, and are completely caught off guard when their wives tell them they’re through, and they want a divorce. Asking for a divorce should not be a surprise to the other. It should be obvious the marriage is on the skids. If it’s not, then there isn’t honesty in a relationship.

Radio host Dennis Prager also sets aside an hour a week on his show for the “male/female hour,” where he discusses relationship issues candidly with callers. I’ve learned so much over the years from his callers, as there is a lot of collective wisdom out there about relationships and marriage. The radio shows are recorded and available as podcasts. It might be worth it for you to check out his website and see if those shows interest you enough to subscribe.

[Clockmeister]

Originally Posted by Boopie

Married 31 years. We have very similar values in so many crucial areas, but of course also argue and disagree. Criticism, however, needs to come from a place of love and respect.

One question to ask is, do you make each other better? I believe that we have and we do.

A wise person once observed that often the things that attracted us to our spouses are also what drive us crazy about them.

Marriage, when done well, is supposed to make us better, more mature people. It does require work. We have to set aside time to nurture it. We can’t take each other for granted. We completely trust each other, and respect each other.

You may be interested in seeing some of Jordan Peterson’s videos on relationships (available on You Tube). He discusses how marriage is supposed to make us better, but that comes about by challenging each other. We aren’t perfect beings, but we get better with genuine feedback (as we do in every other area of life). He quotes studies about ratios of positive to negative interactions with one’s spouse. It’s something like 4:1 at a minimum. So, if one’s interactions with a spouse are negative 50% of the time, that’s bad. The converse is that something like 20:1 isn’t good, either, because that means that one person is always putting on a happy face, but is probably being a weak pushover, and lets resentment build up. There are so many men who think their marriage is wonderful, and are completely caught off guard when their wives tell them they’re through, and they want a divorce. Asking for a divorce should not be a surprise to the other. It should be obvious the marriage is on the skids. If it’s not, then there isn’t honesty in a relationship.

Radio host Dennis Prager also sets aside an hour a week on his show for the “male/female hour,” where he discusses relationship issues candidly with callers. I’ve learned so much over the years from his callers, as there is a lot of collective wisdom out there about relationships and marriage. The radio shows are recorded and available as podcasts. It might be worth it for you to check out his website and see if those shows interest you enough to subscribe.

Thank you and everyone who contributed.
I also like Jordan Peterson and saw the one you are referring to. He also emphasized a divorce after 50 usually means a decrease in one’s quality of life.
The key is respect, imho more important than “being in love” with a spouse for 30 years.
My wife and I are from totally different cultures (and countries) which means in my case different expectations; different ways of talking in terms of tone. I understand in her culture one has to be tough to manage.
I realize it doesn’t matter where two people are from. Respect and getting along.

[Clockmeister]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTt649Hvtxs&autoplay=1

This song “we loved each other but couldn’t get along” from
“The Love I lost” by Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes.

[bobernet]

1. Love is a verb, not a noun. Choose to be and act loving, even (especially) when you don’t feel like it.

2. Your spouse is your partner, not your enemy. Sounds obvious, but we often react in defensive, retaliatory, passive aggressive ways out of habit.

3. Get some counseling on communication skills.

Commitment, fidelity, and longevity can be a reward unto themselves. Divorce is, usually, just a painful and expensive transition to the next relationship plagued with frustration and disappointment. It’s almost never about finding the right person, rather, being the right person.

[/LECTURE]

[superdog]

Had to let this soak in prior to responding.

Separated nearly a year now. It’s so incredibly hard. I still love her dearly. I know she feels the same.

The split was more awkward than difficult. And I want her to live her best life. But we were not getting along. I tried so hard to make her happy. And it didn’t work. I admit, I gave up. I simply could not keep trying, and failing.

And it broke me. I was a shell of myself.

We split. I know we’d both like to get back together. We had lunch just yesterday.

I’m not sure we can. And it breaks my heart all over again.

Yet, my life is better now. I am happier, and I feel lighter. I have less anxiety.

I will be dedicated to her forever. Truly. But I still need to come first. Life is short. And only I am responsible for my own happiness.

I wish you the best in this dark time. DM if you want to chat.

[Clockmeister]

Originally Posted by bobernet

1. Love is a verb, not a noun. Choose to be and act loving, even (especially) when you don’t feel like it.

2. Your spouse is your partner, not your enemy. Sounds obvious, but we often react in defensive, retaliatory, passive aggressive ways out of habit.

3. Get some counseling on communication skills.

Commitment, fidelity, and longevity can be a reward unto themselves. Divorce is, usually, just a painful and expensive transition to the next relationship plagued with frustration and disappointment. It’s almost never about finding the right person, rather, being the right person.

[/LECTURE]

Love what you wrote. Thank you.

[Clockmeister]

Originally Posted by superdog

Had to let this soak in prior to responding.

Separated nearly a year now. It’s so incredibly hard. I still love her dearly. I know she feels the same.

The split was more awkward than difficult. And I want her to live her best life. But we were not getting along. I tried so hard to make her happy. And it didn’t work. I admit, I gave up. I simply could not keep trying, and failing.

And it broke me. I was a shell of myself.

We split. I know we’d both like to get back together. We had lunch just yesterday.

I’m not sure we can. And it breaks my heart all over again.

Yet, my life is better now. I am happier, and I feel lighter. I have less anxiety.

I will be dedicated to her forever. Truly. But I still need to come first. Life is short. And only I am responsible for my own happiness.

I wish you the best in this dark time. DM if you want to chat.

Thank you, much appreciated.

[Clockmeister]

An extrovert and an introvert, especially if the former is more controlling and the latter one dislikes confrontation and much less verbal.
Opposites in many ways.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by ltmgeller

Marriage is a two way street. If both parties don't work at it, its destined to fail.

Have heard that about others.

Not being crass or ????, yet wife and i never ever is 'work'. Fact is, i'm the luckiest guy in the galaxy (tho not universe).

And yes, we both realize what we have and are very grateful. But 'work' at it, not a clue there... but was like that with my ex.

[GB-man]

One thing that I tend to believe is that my wife and I have compatible personalities according to the MBTI we took in B school lol

Could be complete BS but we rarely have a disagreement we can’t solve quickly. We’ve been together 10 years married 6 so it’s somewhat early on compared to others here. Also we both contribute financially which I think removes some of the stressors or one person being financially reliant on the other.

[Boopie]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Have heard that about others.

Not being crass or ????, yet wife and i never ever is 'work'. Fact is, i'm the luckiest guy in the galaxy (tho not universe).

And yes, we both realize what we have and are very grateful. But 'work' at it, not a clue there... but was like that with my ex.

I totally understand.

“Work” in that, we don’t take each other for granted. We intentionally make time for each other. We delay blurting out what bugged us about our day. We are cheerful. We take care of ourselves physically, and make a conscious effort to “look nice.”

I make a conscious effort to “look nice” for my clients, and to have a nice disposition. Shouldn’t I also want to look and act nice for my husband? It’s much more comfortable to scrub off my makeup and put on my sweatpants before he gets home. It takes a lot of work to stay in shape and look nice, and to be positive and kind when he walks in the door. I don’t see that kind of work as a bad thing, but rather as a very important investment in the most important and valuable relationship in my life.

This doesn’t mean being a Pollyanna or being fake. Life is full of sadness and tragedy, and we need to be supportive and strong for each other. It just means making a conscious effort to not complain that the grocery store didn’t have the type of apples you wanted, or that some jerk took your parking space, or that your kid colored on the table with a Sharpie pen, as soon as your spouse walks in the door from his or her own day (which likely had its own challenges).

Unless by nature you are an extraordinarily easygoing person (which I’m not), for most people it takes a conscious effort to live with another person, to express admiration and appreciation, and to not take them for granted.

By “work” I don’t mean the nice face we have to put on to deal with and be pleasant through gritted teeth towards certain relatives we are stuck with during a Thanksgiving dinner. A good marriage is work just like good parenting is work. You should be having fun along the way. “Working” at a marriage, to me, doesn’t mean it’s a slog. It means putting in conscious effort, because you care about, love and respect the partner you’ve chosen from all others in the world, to share life’s journey with.

So many people work hard at impressing the other while dating, and once the ring is on the finger, basically give up. This is taking the other for granted. We don’t lose our desire to be admired, appreciated, and respected by our partner once we are married. My husband is my hero. I praise him to my kids when he’s not around. They see me admire him, and express gratitude. I hope my husband, too, thinks he’s the luckiest guy in the galaxy. I hope every married person thinks that about himself or herself, with gratitude. Gratitude is the opposite of taking someone for granted.

When I was in high school, in the 1980s, I was close with an elderly teacher who had been a WWII veteran. He’d been married, so it seemed, forever, so one day I asked him what the secret to a happy marriage was. He promptly said something to the effect of, “Not everything needs to be said.”

Doing that, I believe, takes work.

That being said, sometimes divorce is necessary. Two people can love each other, but can’t live with each other. There is no shame in trying hard, and realizing it won’t and can’t work. I know many people in very happy and successful second marriages. I know a man very happily married in his third marriage. He wished his first two had worked out, and he tried like heck, but they didn’t. As they would say, that is the triumph of hope over experience.

There has been so much sage advice on this thread. It’s been a very interesting read. I appreciate everyone “being real” and candid.

[RyanJ]

The real truth is no one really knows.

All people know is what has worked for them in their specific circumstances. You could try and follow what other married couples do and have 100% different results.

Marriage does take work. For some it doesn't feel like work which is wonderful. Just like the sage old saying of "Do something you love and you will never work a day in your life is kind of apt here."

Good luck to those working to find a partner and continued good luck to those that have.

[swatty]

A book called The 5 love Languages is a good read and may help the OP to understand what’s going on. I know you said you have been to counselling so you may have read it already.

[Clockmeister]

Originally Posted by Chester01

These questions have been investigated and would refer you to readings by John Gottman and his colleagues. Likewise Andrew Christensen and colleagues have some good reads. Both authors will offer the data you are looking for and help start to think about the broader question you are alluding to. Best of luck to you.

Thank you

[m j b]

Originally Posted by 330ci

But I can 100% guarantee you're not going to solve your problems talking to random strangers on the internet.

And he follows that with some excellent commentary and advice...

Originally Posted by bobernet

It’s almost never about finding the right person, rather, being the right person.

Lovely, thanks.

Originally Posted by Boopie

There has been so much sage advice on this thread. It’s been a very interesting read. I appreciate everyone “being real” and candid.

I concur, thanks everyone for sharing.

I did not share because I don't think I'm qualified, and besides, my wife tells me, often, that I'm a real PITA to live with. But she still loves me.

One of my favorite quotes, a long time ago from a good-ole' country boy who built my second house:

"I wouldn't take $10,000 for my wife. But I wouldn't give you 10 cents for one just like her."

Best of luck OP.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

..ask someone over 50 and you will get the right answer .

This is gold I actually had this conversation with my wife just the other day.

We both concluded that for many, and especially in today’s world, you don’t even really know who “you” are until your 40’s. Marriage in younger years is very hit and miss, was our conclusion.

The pity, is that woman are in a clock, so if having children is part of the equation, you have to get at it younger in life, and take your chances that things work out.

I guess the frozen egg thing is an option too, it’s just not that romantic

[Dino944]

So much great advice in this thread and it has been a great read.

To the OP, regarding the question how often are there arguments? I know people who argue all the time, but love each other and have been married over 50 years. I also know people rarely argue, but who are very cold and neither of them seem that happy or in love.

I think communication is key. Finding out what your partner wants and needs from you and from life, and them finding out what you want or need is important too. This can change as people mature, goals have been reached or changed, plus as a couple you encounter a variety of unexpected issues that can affect ones views or needs. So it is important to maintain good communication, check in with your partner on occasion, to find out how your partner is doing, and whether there things you could do differently to improve your relationship, or to let them know there are things you want or need them to do differently. Maybe there is some level of work involved in that, but if you love someone and they love you, it won't feel like work. It will be something you want to do to be sure you are both happy and to enjoy your relationship to the fullest.

[illiguy]

Marriage requires effort and being genuine from both spouses. What some may call arguments, others may call discussions, etc.

At the end of the day - it’s a partnership

[twitch54]

closing in on 47 years of marriage, the secret........ separate bathrooms !

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by twitch54

...the secret........ separate bathrooms !

True wisdom!

Wife uses three here, though mainly two on the daily. So that explains why we're so happy

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by twitch54

... separate bathrooms !

Wife just got home, we discussed this.

You, kind sir, are BRILLIANT! My wife VERY STRONGLY agrees with your wise assessment.

[Langnam]

Originally Posted by twitch54

closing in on 47 years of marriage, the secret........ separate bathrooms !

Haha, I’ve been doing that for nearly 20 years. Will be married 35 years in September.

Happily, too.


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[AF_Rob]

Are most marriages when both are best friends? - Not IMO. We complement each other and have the same values.

How often are there arguments, and/or resentments? - Argue? rarely. disagree and talk through? Weekly at least. Resentment? never.

How often do you think about divorcing? - Never.

How many people you know seem to have a healthy relationship? - Most from what I can see.

How many are glad or regret getting divorced? - Super happy I divorced my first. I was stupid and got married in my 20's.

How many re-marry or have a relationship? - See above.


This is the second thread about marriage you created from what I can see. If you're reaching out, I recommend you reach out to people who can actually help.