Bad sign, serial number issue :(

[Ursusarctos]

[QUOTE=KatGirl;13342556]If it’s stolen, Rolex will confiscate it and notify both the owner who reported it stolen and the OP. Then the OP will have to seek reimbursement from the seller, as eventuallly the person who reported it stolen will have it returned to him. What I’ve always wondered is if that owner collected an insurance payout, is there another way this plays out, where the OP gets to keep the watch he bought?

Kat

I had an elderly neighbour who thought her Rolex was stolen, it was reported as such to the police, and insurance paid out. Turns out that her deceased husband had hidden it and once found, she informed the insurance company and said she wanted to keep the watch and return the pay out. Insurance said no and that the watch was theirs now. After a lot of back and forth (her son is a lawyer), they returned the cash and kept the watch. I'm not convinced it would always work out this way, especially if a watch might have a much higher value when found again (e.g., in a rising secondary market).

[KenV]

Thanks to my wife's excellent record keeping, she found the paper work from the Munich jewelry store. It has the reference number, 16613T, purchase date, my name, payment details, and the serial number starting with a Z.

I also have a credit card sized plastic card with their name and a title of Certificate of Origin. This also has the reference number, serial number, and the date of our purchase.

I will wait another week, and then send an email to the AD here in town and ask if they have heard back from Rolex in Köln. It would be nice to at least hear what the issue is. Maybe it is a serial number typo along the way and is an easy fix.

Once I get some information from the AD I can look at contacting the store in Munich. They have sold over 1,500 watches on Chrono24 so they do not appear to be a fly by night operation.

I will update the thread as I find out more.

Thanks,

Ken

[Andad]

I expect we will find out soon.

[madsitalia]

Originally Posted by KenV

Thanks to my wife's excellent record keeping, she found the paper work from the Munich jewelry store. It has the reference number, 16613T, purchase date, my name, payment details, and the serial number starting with a Z.

I also have a credit card sized plastic card with their name and a title of Certificate of Origin. This also has the reference number, serial number, and the date of our purchase.

I will wait another week, and then send an email to the AD here in town and ask if they have heard back from Rolex in Köln. It would be nice to at least hear what the issue is. Maybe it is a serial number typo along the way and is an easy fix.

Once I get some information from the AD I can look at contacting the store in Munich. They have sold over 1,500 watches on Chrono24 so they do not appear to be a fly by night operation.

I will update the thread as I find out more.

Thanks,

Ken

Sooo good to hear. Fingers crossed

[Neil McCauley]

Originally Posted by KenV

Thanks to my wife's excellent record keeping, she found the paper work from the Munich jewelry store. It has the reference number, 16613T, purchase date, my name, payment details, and the serial number starting with a Z.

I also have a credit card sized plastic card with their name and a title of Certificate of Origin. This also has the reference number, serial number, and the date of our purchase.

I will wait another week, and then send an email to the AD here in town and ask if they have heard back from Rolex in Köln. It would be nice to at least hear what the issue is. Maybe it is a serial number typo along the way and is an easy fix.

Once I get some information from the AD I can look at contacting the store in Munich. They have sold over 1,500 watches on Chrono24 so they do not appear to be a fly by night operation.

I will update the thread as I find out more.

Thanks,

Ken

Great to hear you're on the road to some explanation. Hopefully it's positive and you have some kind of resolution even if the outcome isn't the one you originally wanted.

[KenV]

So, I have now heard back from my local AD, whom have heard back from Rolex in Köln.

This is a basic translation from German:
-----
The Rolex company in Cologne has now determined that this watch was reported stolen in Spain in 2017.

We were informed by the police headquarters in Cologne that a confiscation order has now been issued by the AG Cologne …
-----

I purchased the watch from a jewelry store in Munich in October 2019, so up to two years after it was reported stolen.

At least now I have some documentation and I can see what the store will do about it. They are still active on Chrono24 and have a rating of 4.9 and have sold over 1,500 watches. I purchased it directly from them, and not via the chrono24 website. Hopefully they will give me a refund. as I am not sure if I want another watch from them. I would have thought that a large volume dealer would have done a check with Rolex before they bought the watch from someone.

I have another watch that I bought directly from a different dealer on Chrono24, so the AD in town here said they will check the serial number on that one. I have box and papers with that one. Will lighting strike twice? My wife bought me my original Sub in 1990 from an AD in Toronto, so I still have box and papers for that one :)

As some suggested in this thread, I guess it would have been better to get the watch checked shortly after purchase at an authorized AD.

Now I wonder if anyone on this forum had a Z serial number blue two tone sub stolen from them in Spain in 2017. I would guess that they, or their insurance company, will now be contacted.

So I am now a Box AND Papers only guy from now on.

I will update the end results when available.

Ken

[johnsonsxusfrt]

Originally Posted by KenV

So, I have now heard back from my local AD, whom have heard back from Rolex in Köln.

This is a basic translation from German:
-----
The Rolex company in Cologne has now determined that this watch was reported stolen in Spain in 2017.

We were informed by the police headquarters in Cologne that a confiscation order has now been issued by the AG Cologne …
-----

I purchased the watch from a jewelry store in Munich in October 2019, so up to two years after it was reported stolen.

At least now I have some documentation and I can see what the store will do about it. They are still active on Chrono24 and have a rating of 4.9 and have sold over 1,500 watches. I purchased it directly from them, and not via the chrono24 website. Hopefully they will give me a refund. as I am not sure if I want another watch from them. I would have thought that a large volume dealer would have done a check with Rolex before they bought the watch from someone.

I have another watch that I bought directly from a different dealer on Chrono24, so the AD in town here said they will check the serial number on that one. I have box and papers with that one. Will lighting strike twice? My wife bought me my original Sub in 1990 from an AD in Toronto, so I still have box and papers for that one :)

As some suggested in this thread, I guess it would have been better to get the watch checked shortly after purchase at an authorized AD.

Now I wonder if anyone on this forum had a Z serial number blue two tone sub stolen from them in Spain in 2017. I would guess that they, or their insurance company, will now be contacted.

So I am now a Box AND Papers only guy from now on.

I will update the end results when available.

Ken

So sorry about your ordeal. I hope the seller on Chrono gives you a full refund, if they don't then please report them to the authorities and out them on this forum

BTW box and papers can be forged and doesn't guarantee provenance, but at least it provides a bit of comfort to have a complete set. Good luck and keep us posted

[Chefinspecteur]

Originally Posted by KenV

So, I have now heard back from my local AD, whom have heard back from Rolex in Köln.

This is a basic translation from German:
-----
The Rolex company in Cologne has now determined that this watch was reported stolen in Spain in 2017.

We were informed by the police headquarters in Cologne that a confiscation order has now been issued by the AG Cologne …
-----

I purchased the watch from a jewelry store in Munich in October 2019, so up to two years after it was reported stolen.

At least now I have some documentation and I can see what the store will do about it. They are still active on Chrono24 and have a rating of 4.9 and have sold over 1,500 watches. I purchased it directly from them, and not via the chrono24 website. Hopefully they will give me a refund. as I am not sure if I want another watch from them. I would have thought that a large volume dealer would have done a check with Rolex before they bought the watch from someone.

I have another watch that I bought directly from a different dealer on Chrono24, so the AD in town here said they will check the serial number on that one. I have box and papers with that one. Will lighting strike twice? My wife bought me my original Sub in 1990 from an AD in Toronto, so I still have box and papers for that one :)

As some suggested in this thread, I guess it would have been better to get the watch checked shortly after purchase at an authorized AD.

Now I wonder if anyone on this forum had a Z serial number blue two tone sub stolen from them in Spain in 2017. I would guess that they, or their insurance company, will now be contacted.

So I am now a Box AND Papers only guy from now on.

I will update the end results when available.

Ken

Ich wünsch Dir viel Glück!

[Speedbird-1]

Hope the OP has a positive outcome.


We're constantly told there are large numbers of watch thefts, in any country, city or situation you care to mention, around the globe, so there must obviously be a large black-market that drives the value and the thefts.
Consequently there must be huge numbers of stolen watches going through that chain of new 'owners'.
Is there a storm coming for Rolex, Insurers and police, when they all finally need a service or repair.
That 'stolen register' must already be heaving with fresh, stolen serial numbers accumulated over the past 5 or 10 years.

[ArtNouveau]

Hope you get your money back. You would think a high volume reseller would vet their purchases thoroughly but stuff can fall through the cracks. Their reputation is everything in this business, they should refund you.
By most anecdotal accounts here though, Rolex RSCs don’t share their databases freely. In the US most if not all ADs will not “authenticate” a used watch and getting a service at an RSC is the only option there and of course if it turns out stolen the customer loses.

[alllexandru]

I’m sorry for the OP situation , I hope you get the refund
I know there are some dealers in C24 listed (selling also directly) which have the checkins on serial numbers for stolen etc
Don’t know if that’s a good prof but worth mentioning

Here is a photo taken from one of them

[Wahlberg]

The original dealer should give you your money back.

[johnsonsxusfrt]

AP allows you to register your watch directly on their website with easy authentication using the watch serial # and warranty card. Panerai and even Brietling offer the same. Rolex could address 99% of these issues by offering a similar registration option for their watches sold since at least 2010. It's a joke that they don't do this.

[joe100]

Originally Posted by johnsonsxusfrt

AP allows you to register your watch directly on their website with easy authentication using the watch serial # and warranty card. Panerai and even Brietling offer the same. Rolex could address 99% of these issues by offering a similar registration option for their watches sold since at least 2010. It's a joke that they don't do this.

In the eyes of Rolex, you either buy new and keep forever, or you buy CPO and keep forever. Anything else just doesn’t compute for them.

[Bartolo]

Originally Posted by KatGirl

If it’s stolen, Rolex will confiscate it and notify both the owner who reported it stolen and the OP. Then the OP will have to seek reimbursement from the seller, as eventuallly the person who reported it stolen will have it returned to him. What I’ve always wondered is if that owner collected an insurance payout, is there another way this plays out, where the OP gets to keep the watch he bought?

Kat

No; at that point it's the insurance company's watch. Often the policyholder is given the option to keep the item and repay the recovery to the insurance co.

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by KatGirl

If it’s stolen, Rolex will confiscate it and notify both the owner who reported it stolen and the OP. Then the OP will have to seek reimbursement from the seller, as eventuallly the person who reported it stolen will have it returned to him. What I’ve always wondered is if that owner collected an insurance payout, is there another way this plays out, where the OP gets to keep the watch he bought?

Kat


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Under all insurance contracts, anything recovered for which they have paid out, is the company’s salvage property.

[Cambo]

I would never buy without papers. Period. Dealers who buy (and sell) watches without definitive proof of ownership are part of the problem. Sure the *nod nod wink wink* sale to unseasoned buyers seems OK right up to the next Rolex service. By then, dealers are shrugging their shoulders with the “deer-in-the-headlights” look.
Having said that, buyers who do not demand proof of ownership, newbies or not, should be smarter. Caveat Emptor!!!

[0nly5iv3Digits]

Originally Posted by Cambo

I would never buy without papers. Period. Dealers who buy (and sell) watches without definitive proof of ownership are part of the problem. Sure the *nod nod wink wink* sale to unseasoned buyers seems OK right up to the next Rolex service. By then, dealers are shrugging their shoulders with the “deer-in-the-headlights” look.
Having said that, buyers who do not demand proof of ownership, newbies or not, should be smarter. Caveat Emptor!!!

100%^

[KatGirl]

So sorry, OP. I just hope the seller does the right thing. If he refuses reimbursement, stating too much time has passed, perhaps you can sue him. Stories like this are why I’m content to wait for phone calls.

Kat


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GGGMT]

I recommend buying only from trusted sellers here on TRF and avoiding the posse


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dannyboy123]

I'm surprised this has not been positively resolved by now? I'm sure it will be if he's a dealer of any worth. fingers crossed mate.

[Mr. K]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

Under all insurance contracts, anything recovered for which they have paid out, is the company’s salvage property.

This is correct.

I hope the seller refunds the money.

[omar-rye]

Originally Posted by GGGMT

I recommend buying only from trusted sellers here on TRF and avoiding the posse


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Even trusted sellers on TRF can make mistakes, and stolen pieces can definitely find their way into their inventory. To be fully frank, we don’t know how they would react if they were in a similar situation two years after selling a watch. I will give every business the benefit of the doubt and hope that this dealer will come through and do the right thing.

[Sgooter]

OP: Once the outcome has been finalized (good or bad), please post the Munich dealer's name.

[johnsonsxusfrt]

Originally Posted by joe100

In the eyes of Rolex, you either buy new and keep forever, or you buy CPO and keep forever. Anything else just doesn’t compute for them.

LOL I don't believe that for a moment. I think Rolex doesn't want a registry because it would undermine their ADs bundling and selling pieces to greys.

[omar-rye]

Originally Posted by johnsonsxusfrt

LOL I don't believe that for a moment. I think Rolex doesn't want a registry because it would undermine their ADs bundling and selling pieces to greys.

They don’t want the headache, potential liability and litigation.

[1William]

Thanks for the update. Keep us posted.

[joe100]

Originally Posted by johnsonsxusfrt

LOL I don't believe that for a moment. I think Rolex doesn't want a registry because it would undermine their ADs bundling and selling pieces to greys.

Subtlety is lost ‘round these parts.

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by KenV

So, I have now heard back from my local AD, whom have heard back from Rolex in Köln.

This is a basic translation from German:
-----
The Rolex company in Cologne has now determined that this watch was reported stolen in Spain in 2017.

We were informed by the police headquarters in Cologne that a confiscation order has now been issued by the AG Cologne …
-----

I purchased the watch from a jewelry store in Munich in October 2019, so up to two years after it was reported stolen.

At least now I have some documentation and I can see what the store will do about it. They are still active on Chrono24 and have a rating of 4.9 and have sold over 1,500 watches. I purchased it directly from them, and not via the chrono24 website. Hopefully they will give me a refund. as I am not sure if I want another watch from them. I would have thought that a large volume dealer would have done a check with Rolex before they bought the watch from someone.

I have another watch that I bought directly from a different dealer on Chrono24, so the AD in town here said they will check the serial number on that one. I have box and papers with that one. Will lighting strike twice? My wife bought me my original Sub in 1990 from an AD in Toronto, so I still have box and papers for that one :)

As some suggested in this thread, I guess it would have been better to get the watch checked shortly after purchase at an authorized AD.

Now I wonder if anyone on this forum had a Z serial number blue two tone sub stolen from them in Spain in 2017. I would guess that they, or their insurance company, will now be contacted.

So I am now a Box AND Papers only guy from now on.

I will update the end results when available.

Ken

Terrible news; FWIW, papers can easily be forged, and boxes bought. They guarantee nothing. On the other hand, I'd love to hear how the discussion with the jewelry store is going.

[RichM]

OP thanks for the update and I hope someone makes you whole.