Prices not dropping?

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by rolex16

How can you say no one will answer? I have answered you before, and I will answer you again here. Final model MSRP before discontinuation for the neovintage example. For current production, current MSRP.

Until the MSRP goes up on current production? Then your "normal" goes up?

Or in the case of something discontinued you want the price to never rise about the last MSRP? So much for most of the people on this forum.

Again, you are not answering the question, you are simply assigning a label to a moving target.

What is normal? I paid $2550 for my first Submariner. When will that price be normal again?

[rolex16]

Originally Posted by beshannon

Until the MSRP goes up on current production? TRhen your "normal" goes up?

Correct. This is how it has always worked. You pay the current MSRP at point of sale.

Originally Posted by beshannon

Or in the case of something discontinued you want the price to never rise about the last MSRP? So much for most of the people on this forum.

Again, you are not answering the question, you are simply assigning a label to a moving target.

What is normal? I paid $2550 for my first Submariner. When will that price be normal again?

See vintage and neovintage responses a few posts earlier I provided (654, 660). These are my opinions, based on over 15 years of actually owning both modern and vintage pieces. I am by no means an expert.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by rolex16

Correct. This is how it has always worked. You may the current MSRP at point of sale.

Always worked? According to whom?

[amh]

Originally Posted by beshannon

Until the MSRP goes up on current production? Then your "normal" goes up?

Or in the case of something discontinued you want the price to never rise about the last MSRP? So much for most of the people on this forum.

Again, you are not answering the question, you are simply assigning a label to a moving target.

What is normal? I paid $2550 for my first Submariner. When will that price be normal again?

Now you're just being difficult. This has been asked & answered many times in this thread.

[rolex16]

Originally Posted by beshannon

Always worked? According to whom?

Are you being serious, or trolling? Pre-2016 or whenever the big bang happened in the Rolex market, you walked into the AD, picked your watch, and paid current MSRP as of that day (unless you negotiated a discount) + tax. What are you driving at with your argument? Just spit it out instead of playing this guessing game.

[GW44]

Originally Posted by rolex16

I have answered Brian before. This is my definition of "normal," and I think most would agree.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...&postcount=414

With respect Nick the US and UK markets are very, very different. So I look forward to David (who I think is Uk based as well) to answer the question posed.

Thanks.

[rolex16]

Originally Posted by GW44

With respect Nick the US and UK markets are very, very different. So I look forward to David (who I think is Uk based as well) to answer the question posed.

Thanks.

That's fine, I understand.

[Calatrava r]

When the used prices decline, interest will lessen in the product, and it stands to reason, availability should then improve from ADs. Right now, many are chasing the watches from ADs as an investment. Once, Rolex just becomes a watch again with a drop in value as a used watch, the investors will be gone. There is no normal in luxury good markets. Low demand, as we have seen with Rolex in the past is not necessarily the norm.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by amh

Now you're just being difficult. This has been asked & answered many times in this thread.

And I disagree. I has never been answered. It is inferred or implied.

Keep hoping for normal though and good luck. I am done with this

[rolex16]

Originally Posted by beshannon

And I disagree. I has never been answered. It is inferred or implied.

Keep hoping for normal though and good luck. I am done with this

How convenient.

[AbeFroman]

Originally Posted by Danny83

They should ban you from those groups since all you do is kick tires all day

Huh? Not sure if you meant to quote my post?

[Danny83]

Originally Posted by AbeFroman

Huh? Not sure if you meant to quote my post?

Yes it was for you…

[HMHM]

Let's put things in context alright: secondary dealers exist to make money! If there is an opportunity, let's not kid ourselves that they are going to leave all that money on the table for others to take it.

Personally, all I want from this current environment is that ADs return to their original purpose of being an AD, which is to help customers acquire the watch they want. The latest listing by DSW, with the latest YG YM42, suggests that ADs are not being totally transparent and honest with their dealings..... If prices drop and the incentives to be a flipper/backpack dealer disappear, I believe end customers have more chance of acquiring the watch they want.

Businesses are started for profit but I strongly believe that each business should be build on the core principles of integrity and transparency. If ADs are selling directly to known flippers/secondary dealers, that's not right, is it?

[GW44]

Originally Posted by rolex16

That's fine, I understand.

Thanks

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by HMHM

Let's put things in context alright: secondary dealers exist to make money! If there is an opportunity, let's not kid ourselves that they are going to leave all that money on the table for others to take it.

Personally, all I want from this current environment is that ADs return to their original purpose of being an AD, which is to help customers acquire the watch they want. The latest listing by DSW, with the latest YG YM42, suggests that ADs are not being totally transparent and honest with their dealings..... If prices drop and the incentives to be a flipper/backpack dealer disappear, I believe end customers have more chance of acquiring the watch they want.

Businesses are started for profit but I strongly believe that each business should be build on the core principles of integrity and transparency. If ADs are selling directly to known flippers/secondary dealers, that's not right, is it?

You ask your question "If ADs are selling...". Point of fact nobody knows what anybody does in this crazy market, but every AD I know goes to great lengths to place their watches with end users. If an end used sells the watch for a profit and the AD hears of it they will not get another watch. The Rolex franchise is much too valuable to any AD to lose over a direct sale to a used watch dealer. Pretty stupid thing to do in this market where an AD can sell everything that comes and with no floor planning. Big change from years ago where most of the Rolex watches sat for years collecting dust.

[AbeFroman]

Originally Posted by Danny83

Yes it was for you…

Not sure how your inferring I’m a “tire kicker”. Lots of TRF members lurk on Moda and they welcome it. You think all 45.5k members are actively buying/selling? I don’t think so bud.

I get all my pieces new from the AD just like you, but in my case, they don’t force undesirable references on me that I have to spam the classifieds here to try and sell. We actually share a Dallas AD too.

[Litflynt912]

Normally I don’t chime in because I just love the drama
Back and forth but I’m squarely in this camp.
The fact Roman and his latest video went out their way to portray grey market as
“Not illegal” is a nod he knows (as he does have a good pulse on the market) that folks are starting to see the “unethical” behavior that greys offer

The same could be said of any industry and the counter is 100% if you’re able to buy something on discount when there’s less demand or more product why is it unethical to charge more when there’s less inventory or more demand.
Obviously we could pour a glass of scotch and debate morality or better yes excessiveness but the Gordon Geckos wouldn’t have it.

This entire thing is a game. Everyone was euphoric and a bit flushed with wants during COVID. Will the madness last? Not in my opinion but to say we are going back to the good old days, I don’t buy that either

Like most industries, we know have our first entrants and those will gobble up the little guys when the Amex bill is due or shorts need to be covered.

Originally Posted by HMHM

Let's put things in context alright: secondary dealers exist to make money! If there is an opportunity, let's not kid ourselves that they are going to leave all that money on the table for others to take it.

Personally, all I want from this current environment is that ADs return to their original purpose of being an AD, which is to help customers acquire the watch they want. The latest listing by DSW, with the latest YG YM42, suggests that ADs are not being totally transparent and honest with their dealings..... If prices drop and the incentives to be a flipper/backpack dealer disappear, I believe end customers have more chance of acquiring the watch they want.

Businesses are started for profit but I strongly believe that each business should be build on the core principles of integrity and transparency. If ADs are selling directly to known flippers/secondary dealers, that's not right, is it?

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

You ask your question "If ADs are selling...". Point of fact nobody knows what anybody does in this crazy market, but every AD I know goes to great lengths to place their watches with end users. If an end used sells the watch for a profit and the AD hears of it they will not get another watch. The Rolex franchise is much too valuable to any AD to lose over a direct sale to a used watch dealer. Pretty stupid thing to do in this market where an AD can sell everything that comes and with no floor planning. Big change from years ago where most of the Rolex watches sat for years collecting dust.

I fully agree that the Rolex franchise is immensely important to every AD. It’s their cash cow these days and it draws customers in to their boutiques. That being said, if like you said that ADs are doing their best to ensure their watches end up with end users rather than flippers/secondary dealers, why does the latest YG YM42 appear on DSW’s website? Many other ADs have not even seen the latest releases, yet DSW has gotten one to resell at a mark up. I’m highly curious how does the AD do their due diligence and sell likely their first received piece to a flipper. The fact that a 2022 release was sold to a customer (likely a good customer since he/she got it that quickly), who then flips it for a profit, suggests that the AD is either bad at their job in identifying appropriate customers or they are in it together. Either way we look at it, doesn’t reflect that good on the AD, does it?

[ronricks]

Originally Posted by EEpro

I've only seen a small % decrease in ask in the major dealers but I can tell you purchase offers are down 40% from last month.

The watches are sitting. Most Grey’s aren’t buying. They are still moving watches dealer to dealer. Some will do consignment. Most bought at way higher prices than they can sell. Try and sell a brand new BLNR or BLRO to a Grey right now. They will only buy at an extremely lowball price. That tells me all I need to know.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by HMHM

I fully agree that the Rolex franchise is immensely important to every AD. It’s their cash cow these days and it draws customers in to their boutiques. That being said, if like you said that ADs are doing their best to ensure their watches end up with end users rather than flippers/secondary dealers, why does the latest YG YM42 appear on DSW’s website? Many other ADs have not even seen the latest releases, yet DSW has gotten one to resell at a mark up. I’m highly curious how does the AD do their due diligence and sell likely their first received piece to a flipper. The fact that a 2022 release was sold to a customer (likely a good customer since he/she got it that quickly), who then flips it for a profit, suggests that the AD is either bad at their job in identifying appropriate customers or they are in it together. Either way we look at it, doesn’t reflect that good on the AD, does it?

The same thing happened with the Patek new building release watch. The ADs selected their most special clients which were then approved by Patek. I believe names were filled out on the COO by Patek. Despite all that care, several watches showed up quickly on the used market at hefty premiums. The profit motive at work.

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

The profit motive at work.

Exactly! With this market volatility, we hope that it will deter people from engaging in watch investing/flipping and AD can go back to selling watches to genuine customers who want to wear and enjoy the watch. That was what I'm hoping will happen with my post above.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by ronricks

The watches are sitting. Most Grey’s aren’t buying. They are still moving watches dealer to dealer. Some will do consignment. Most bought at way higher prices than they can sell. Try and sell a brand new BLNR or BLRO to a Grey right now. They will only buy at an extremely lowball price. That tells me all I need to know.

Yes of course. The list price is poker face right now. Based on my offer being -40% and not the usual -25% below list they are expecting a correction of that size. Should be fun for buyers.

[thenewrick]

And the crash was enough to make a shy bald Grey dealer reflect and plan a mass sell off

[Cambo]

Originally Posted by ronricks

The watches are sitting. Most Grey’s aren’t buying. They are still moving watches dealer to dealer. Some will do consignment. Most bought at way higher prices than they can sell. Try and sell a brand new BLNR or BLRO to a Grey right now. They will only buy at an extremely lowball price. That tells me all I need to know.

Watched a CRM YouTube video recently….people are calling them trying to sell watches that they haven’t even got from the AD yet (although they say the AD has it promised to them)
Interesting times

[Shaitan]

700 replies to this thread soon. People really must be upset they couldn’t get a watch over the last few years if they discuss this topic for the 234th around. Yes you will all get your JM’s at retail soon.


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[Slambonie]

Originally Posted by Shaitan

700 replies to this thread soon. People really must be upset they couldn’t get a watch over the last few years if they discuss this topic for the 234th around. Yes you will all get your JM’s at retail soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

found the flipper

[rdragon]

Originally Posted by EEpro

Yes of course. The list price is poker face right now. Based on my offer being -40% from the usual -25% below list they are expecting a correction of that size. Should be fun for buyers.

Mind sharing what watch this was for?

[Turbo Racer]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

And the crash was enough to make a shy bald Grey dealer reflect and plan a mass sell off

Who sai I lied to the ad? Lol

[Shaitan]

Originally Posted by Slambonie

found the flipper

Yeah go find Jesus first


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[EEpro]

Originally Posted by rdragon

Mind sharing what watch this was for?

The 520 Daytona I have listed in the classifieds. I also corrected my post so the language would be clearer. All offers were 40% below list price instead of the usual.