Strange happenings in Hong Kong - grey market dealers

[dmash]

Anyways, back to actual posting.

Recent black dial brand new 26240st ended last night for $56k via auction. He’s posted that timepiece multiple times with no takers, I’m very curious to see if it gets reposted in the coming week and that end result was fake. As I highly doubt it actually brought that much.

There's 4 silver 26240ST sitting on C24 for days <$60k with no takers. These are in hand, they have pics.

Also 3 silver 15510ST sitting at <$50k. Also in hand with pics.

They keep dropping but nobody is biting.

Really curious to see what happens come another 2 months and 'normal' models get released. We're approaching MSRP + tax already and all current RO/ROC are limited edition. I would guesstimate the same model watch, 50th vs non-50th would be a 5-15% price difference on secondary market? Makes no sense that would fetch the same price.

[psm11]

Originally Posted by GS93108

Grateful for the comments but it was me that stirred the pot and thus I fully expected to be met with a back lash.

From what I have observed AP has no prejudice, creed, colour, religion etc. The only thing that anyone needs when dealing with AP are manners and luck. I certainly don't judge anyone's 'worthiness', especially on the internet.

is that really true though? AP certainly takes it time to vet a potential customer and obviously has a certain kind of person in mind to sell their watches too. I don't really get the vibe from AP that they are eager to sell a RO to a retired truck driver who saved for years to buy an AP. They want a certain kind of person wearing their watches.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by psm11

is that really true though? AP certainly takes it time to vet a potential customer and obviously has a certain kind of person in mind to sell their watches too. I don't really get the vibe from AP that they are eager to sell a RO to a retired truck driver who saved for years to buy an AP. They want a certain kind of person wearing their watches.

Just remember this all goes out the window as prices start to reach parity with MSRP. All watch boutiques have had the luxury of the best years of business since their INCEPTION in the last few years. They could be picky about customers, turn down countless heads, and showcase favoritism. It's entirely plausible dealers just want ANYbody to buy inventory in the coming years, just like yesteryears.

I genuinely look forward to walking in watch boutiques and them pitching ME on why I should buy that time piece. Have knowledge of it. Show me details they think are particular interesting. No discount in the picture, just a much better buying experience as a whole and not walking out feeling a bit exhausted and like I'm the one who had to make a sales pitch. It's actually unbelievable what we've resorted to as buyers just to obtain tangible objects nowadays.

[messikens]

Originally Posted by GS93108

I'm not 'defending' anything that you suggest. The only thing I'm defending is logic and the 'joy' that used to exist in this forum.

Already it's too much effort to care.

Carry on. It's your playground.

Don't like the thread - don't read / post on it. Plenty of other threads to keep you joy going...

[Vince_76]

White 26320st for 34.5k no takers. Full set

[m3jasper]

Originally Posted by dmash

So he gets a free pass to (falsely) claim people are full of piss and vinegar by simply wishing to obtain watches at retail, because he has previously posted good content? Nobody critiqued that nor claimed otherwise.

And my statement you quoted, it does come across as that. He’s criticizing people being happy at getting potential allocations and claiming we can only be joyful about watches themselves, but not being joyful at a return to normalcy and true collectors prevailing.

And really? You ‘nullify’ my thoughts simply because I (respectfully) disagree with somebody. Haha, ok.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I didn't find his comments offensive.

Originally Posted by GS93108

Grateful for the comments but it was me that stirred the pot and thus I fully expected to be met with a back lash.

From what I have observed AP has no prejudice, creed, colour, religion etc. The only thing that anyone needs when dealing with AP are manners and luck. I certainly don't judge anyone's 'worthiness', especially on the internet.

Finally, to be super clear, whilst this is not necessarily evident in some of my posts, I am for sure one of APs biggest critics and have made this year's nonsense allocation model very well known to AP HQ. Believe me, AP and I are on a very very tenuous footing and my support of AP the brand is waning, yet none of that detracts from this forum or the good people therein, or indeed the logic in supply of APs moving forwards.

Best to be honest!

Originally Posted by dmash

Really curious to see what happens come another 2 months and 'normal' models get released. We're approaching MSRP + tax already and all current RO/ROC are limited edition. I would guesstimate the same model watch, 50th vs non-50th would be a 5-15% price difference on secondary market? Makes no sense that would fetch the same price.

In my opinion, dealers will then jump on the "discontinued" bandwagon and claim since they are no longer being made, they are worth more. I'd certainly say the momentum is shifting in the collector's favor, as money isn't as cheap as it used to be and there's clearly more supply now.

It'll be interesting to see how it all unfolds.

Originally Posted by psm11

is that really true though? AP certainly takes it time to vet a potential customer and obviously has a certain kind of person in mind to sell their watches too. I don't really get the vibe from AP that they are eager to sell a RO to a retired truck driver who saved for years to buy an AP. They want a certain kind of person wearing their watches.

They may not have a choice if their market contracts the way many are saying it will. Time will tell.

[psm11]

Why was this moved?

[Mathematoxic]

Originally Posted by dmash

Just remember this all goes out the window as prices start to reach parity with MSRP. All watch boutiques have had the luxury of the best years of business since their INCEPTION in the last few years. They could be picky about customers, turn down countless heads, and showcase favoritism. It's entirely plausible dealers just want ANYbody to buy inventory in the coming years, just like yesteryears.

I genuinely look forward to walking in watch boutiques and them pitching ME on why I should buy that time piece. Have knowledge of it. Show me details they think are particular interesting. No discount in the picture, just a much better buying experience as a whole and not walking out feeling a bit exhausted and like I'm the one who had to make a sales pitch. It's actually unbelievable what we've resorted to as buyers just to obtain tangible objects nowadays.

Yes the experience of purchasing watches has been absolutely negative over the past 2 years. We spend money to be vetted. Dealers talk about purchase history more than history of the watch we want to buy. It’s all about eligibility to buy instead of reasons/occasions. Totally screwed up experiences.
When most models falls below MSRP, I believe the buying experience will be much much more enjoyable. No more talks about secondary values and being scrutinised by the SA

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by m3jasper

Especially to someone, like GS93108, who always contributes positively to this sub-forum and is the first write a lengthy and detailed explanation to a newbie asking the same repetitive question of how they go about getting a RO from the btq.

Glad this thread got moved, as I could easily see us losing some of the long-time valuable contributors to the AP subforum if the back-and-forth continued. Now, carry on.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Glad this thread got moved, as I could easily see us losing some of the long-time valuable contributors to the AP subforum if the back-and-forth continued. Now, carry on.

Some of you guys crack me up. It’s negative and a ‘back and forth’ simply because I disagree with what he said and ask him to explain his (accusatory, regarding piss and vinegar) remarks.

This is a discussion board. What happened to just simply conversing without somebody getting their feelings hurt? Really, somebody would leave the board over that, wow.


It’s very intriguing to me though as it’s *only* valuations going down which makes some of you vocal about this. If it were any other subject it would be a normal conversation, but bring values dropping into the mix and there’s a group of people who are immediately on the defensive and clamor on about how it’s not good.

[QuelleHeureEstIl]

Originally Posted by mathematoxic

yes the experience of purchasing watches has been absolutely negative over the past 2 years. We spend money to be vetted. dealers talk about purchase history more than history of the watch we want to buy. It’s all about eligibility to buy instead of reasons/occasions. Totally screwed up experiences.
when most models falls below msrp, i believe the buying experience will be much much more enjoyable. No more talks about secondary values and being scrutinised by the sa

+100

[QuelleHeureEstIl]

Originally Posted by dmash

just remember this all goes out the window as prices start to reach parity with msrp. All watch boutiques have had the luxury of the best years of business since their inception in the last few years. They could be picky about customers, turn down countless heads, and showcase favoritism. It's entirely plausible dealers just want anybody to buy inventory in the coming years, just like yesteryears.

i genuinely look forward to walking in watch boutiques and them pitching me on why i should buy that time piece. Have knowledge of it. Show me details they think are particular interesting. No discount in the picture, just a much better buying experience as a whole and not walking out feeling a bit exhausted and like i'm the one who had to make a sales pitch. It's actually unbelievable what we've resorted to as buyers just to obtain tangible objects nowadays.

+100

[psm11]

Originally Posted by dmash

Some of you guys crack me up. It’s negative and a ‘back and forth’ simply because I disagree with what he said and ask him to explain his (accusatory, regarding piss and vinegar) remarks.

This is a discussion board. What happened to just simply conversing without somebody getting their feelings hurt? Really, somebody would leave the board over that, wow.


It’s very intriguing to me though as it’s *only* valuations going down which makes some of you vocal about this. If it were any other subject it would be a normal conversation, but bring values dropping into the mix and there’s a group of people who are immediately on the defensive and clamor on about how it’s not good.

Again, so confused about all this. A lot of the hostile comments came from those who could simply choose not to partake in the thread. Why in the world would talking about current market conditions push people away? Reminder that there was no issue like this when prices were going the other way.

Rant over -- let those of us who find this thread very valuable as both a reference and venting tool continue on with it. Excited at the prospect of getting my first AP at retail and finally being able to discuss the actual watch (because I have it in hand) on these forms. Let the mass exodus of flippers and those buying watches as an "investment" from the hobby continue.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by psm11

Let the mass exodus of flippers and those buying watches as an "investment" from the hobby continue.

Perhaps those are the ones who didn’t like this thread?

[aa909]

Originally Posted by dmash

Perhaps those are the ones who didn’t like this thread?

yup, same guys flipping the new 5811 and 5712/1R for 300% premium on Moda?

[911AP]

Originally Posted by m3jasper

He did not say that, nor is he insinuating that. Look at his contributions over the years to this sub-forum and his track record of offering people thoughtful advice. That alone nullifies your theory.

You're barking up the wrong tree, imo.

In your previous post, were you offended at idea of being categorized as an "AP Virgin"?

That's an ignorant thing to say, imo.

Especially to someone, like GS93108, who always contributes positively to this sub-forum and is the first write a lengthy and detailed explanation to a newbie asking the same repetitive question of how they go about getting a RO from the btq.

Originally Posted by GS93108

Dmash,

Clearly this is your baby, there's no talking to you without confrontation, that was my mistake and I recognise that.

I sincerely wish you luck in your journey to whatever it is that you are hoping to achieve.

All of you need to not waste your time on this guy lol. This thread is as you all stated his playground. Anyone who disagrees is attacked relentlessly . But it's entertaining to watch.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by 911AP

All of you need to not waste your time on this guy lol. This thread is as you all stated his playground. Anyone who disagrees is attacked relentlessly . But it's entertaining to watch.

Please remember this is the same guy who just said this a mere weeks ago…..before market proceeded to collapse further (and still is). Then proceeded not to post for weeks in here as he was proven wrong LOL

Originally Posted by 911AP

???

I stand by that statement. This is temporary....but time will tell. I doubt it'll go back to 5x retail again, but it'll go back up. Supply issue hasn't changed. It's only temporarily changed because everyone panicked and dumped their supply all at once. Once that supply is absorbed little by little prices will go back up.

[911AP]

Originally Posted by dmash

Please remember this is the same guy who just said this a mere weeks ago…..before market proceeded to collapse further (and still is). Then proceeded not to post for weeks in here as he was proven wrong LOL

I'm sorry I have a life. Was out of the country and not as attached to this thread as you are.

I don't really see evidence of the market further dropping lower. Again as usual you post data from moda of busted watches. Still haven't seen data for new or like new watches from you. All damaged, incomplete, busted examples. As I said before once the supply is absorbed prices will go back up again. But it won't be as high as before because of the economic climate fundamentally changing.

But carry on.....I got popcorn.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by 911AP

I don't really see evidence of the market further dropping lower.

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by 911AP

I don't really see evidence of the market further dropping lower.

You must be misinformed. RG olive day dates freshly dated unworn for less than 50k, 15500s brand new in the low 30s, etc. etc.

To the contrary, given the lack of velocity and pricing support, there is not much evidence that pricing will stabilize or increase

[911AP]

Originally Posted by Vince_76

You must be misinformed. RG olive day dates freshly dated unworn for less than 50k, 15500s brand new in the low 30s, etc. etc.

To the contrary, given the lack of velocity and pricing support, there is not much evidence that pricing will stabilize or increase

I haven't paid as close attention to Rolex. Where are you seeing 15500s brand new for low 30s? This would certainly be something different than what I have seen or what has been posted.

[dmash]

911 is that you?

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by 911ap

i haven't paid as close attention to rolex. Where are you seeing 15500s brand new for low 30s? This would certainly be something different than what i have seen or what has been posted.

moda

[dmash]

mint 26420ti now going for $35k, full set, July 22. unsold. these will be 30k shortly

[Mathematoxic]

Actually there is no need to convince anyone that the market is dropping. Just chill guys. Dmash thanks for all the updates!

[aa909]

[JacksonRain]

Originally Posted by dmash

Please remember this is the same guy who just said this a mere weeks ago…..before market proceeded to collapse further (and still is). Then proceeded not to post for weeks in here as he was proven wrong LOL

Originally Posted by 911AP

I'm sorry I have a life. Was out of the country and not as attached to this thread as you are.

I don't really see evidence of the market further dropping lower. Again as usual you post data from moda of busted watches. Still haven't seen data for new or like new watches from you. All damaged, incomplete, busted examples. As I said before once the supply is absorbed prices will go back up again. But it won't be as high as before because of the economic climate fundamentally changing.

But carry on.....I got popcorn.

The market has indeed continued to drop. In fact, it's literally been dripping every week. It's not because dmash said so, it's just the case. He's just pointing out some examples. It is what it is...



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[Crown & Shield]

Originally Posted by psm11

Why was this moved?

To hide the uncomfortable truth?

[1665fan]

Every market has been dropping also…..it’s called a recession…

[aa909]

26420ti 43 ROO complete set, ~$10K below retail + tax