Why is buying a car so hard/insulting?

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by swils8610

Tesla is currently trying that buying method. The issue is if you have an issue with your new Tesla you have nowhere to bring it for service. That is the issue they are dealing with now. Try buying a pallet of soup from Campbell's...unless your buying multiple truck loads or railcars of it good luck.

I can buy many things, including soup, direct from the factory. I don't need a middle man to jack up prices without adding value to the product.

The manufacturer needs authorized service centers for warranty service. Warranty service. Not a profit center under the middle man's roof.

The dealership service centers are not competitive once the warranty is out and an independent will be more cost effective for the consumer (watchmaker vs RSC, for example). Cars aren't Rolex's, aftermarket parts don't devalue the car, and excellent service can be had by any number of independents.

[bradj]

I bought my first new car while I was in the middle of the pacific ocean on a US Navy destroyer. I've never negotiated a car purchase in the dealership. I get annoyed with the hour it takes just to go in and pick it up.

[swils8610]

I hope no feelings are being hurt by this discussion. I enjoy this forum and how we can all express our opinions.

[chaisson]

I buy a new Accord every 2 to 3 years, my wife a CRV every 4 years (16 New Hondas to date) Just my 2 cents here. Find a good dealership you trust and doesn't have a high staff turnover. I've learned when buyer and seller develop a solid relationship it pretty much takes the BS out of the deal. Dealer profit makes sure he's around to take care of customers (I walk in, put my keys on the counter and am given a loaner when ever needed) Had a steering rack fail on my last Accord out of warranty, dealer service went to bat on my behalf with Honda and the rack supplied no charge. Always believe the guy that takes your money, is the guy that should take care of you.....

[swils8610]

Originally Posted by chaisson

I buy a new Accord every 2 to 3 years, my wife a CRV every 4 years (16 New Hondas to date) Just my 2 cents here. Find a good dealership you trust and doesn't have a high staff turnover. I've learned when buyer and seller develop a solid relationship it pretty much takes the BS out of the deal. Dealer profit makes sure he's around to take care of customers (I walk in, put my keys on the counter and am given a loaner when ever needed) Had a steering rack fail on my last Accord out of warranty, dealer service went to bat on my behalf with Honda and the rack supplied no charge. Always believe the guy that takes your money, is the guy that should take care of you.....

Very nice!! It's nice to hear some positive dealership feedback!

[locutus49]

My wife - herself in sales for years - and I actually enjoy negotiating with sales guys. We enjoy the back and forth and the rest of the game.

[threemonkeys]

Originally Posted by locutus49

My wife - herself in sales for years - and I actually enjoy negotiating with sales guys. We enjoy the back and forth and the rest of the game.

X2.

And here's a pro tip - when the sales yahoo wants you to sit in your chair like a good boy and/or girl while he talks to the sales manager, always get out of the chair and start looking at other cars and talking to other sales people. You'll be surprised how that can speed up the process.

Even so, I still want to take a shower after visiting a car dealership.

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by threemonkeys

X2.

And here's a pro tip - when the sales yahoo wants you to sit in your chair like a good boy and/or girl while he talks to the sales manager, always get out of the chair and start looking at other cars and talking to other sales people. You'll be surprised how that can speed up the process.

Even so, I still want to take a shower after visiting a car dealership.

Before I started negotiating by phone, and they did the walk out. I would wait for them to come back, and state that is the last and only time that will happen. I then gave him/her the chance to make it happen and if it didn't I was off to the next dealership. Doing things over the phone, eliminates that and puts you in the drivers seat.

[the_Hunter]

Originally Posted by threemonkeys

even so, i still want to take a shower after visiting a car dealership.

x1000

[TheVTCGuy]

OP, send a note to Danny 83, he will help you out and do it honestly

[swils8610]

Honestly??

[rouxeny]

I hate buying cars. Well, actually, I love getting a new car but I absolutely hate the process.

I've bought 6 in my lifetime, and the easiest by far was back in the day using auto-by-tel. The price was set, I walked in, and picked it up. I bought another after a few emails with a salesman, that wasn't that bad either.

However, most have been the usual back and forth, time wasting, "let me talk to my manager" BS which makes me crazy. When I finally got to the finance guy when I purchased my BMW, he congratulated me on having done a good job. He may have meant it as a compliment but I thought it was kind of rude. One Honda salesman actually accused me of taking money out of his family's mouth, to which I replied that he was trying to do the exact same to me.

I think that not only will the car-making industry be disrupted in the near future, but the sales/repair industry will also.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by swils8610

Honestly??

Yes, honestly. Perhaps I should have elaborated. What he will NOT do is advertise or tell you a price, and when you get to the dealer try to change terms, or sell you a different and upgraded vehicle, or take your keys when you are trading in a car to "check it out" and have them disappear when you tell the dealer you don't want to deal with them anymore and would like to leave. And you finally dial the police on your cell when they "can't find" your keys and suddenly they appear. You see, these things happened to me. I call those tactics DISHONEST. Danny83 will not attempt any of those... maneuvers.

That is what I meant by "HONESTLY"

Maybe it is unfair of me to form an opinion of all car dealers from the (three) bad experiences I have had with them, but what else do I have to base it on? Would you like to hear the details? I will be glad to describe each and every encounter, but the end result is I generally place them at the level of a snake oil salesman, putting it mildly.

Danny is an exception to this opinion, and I am buying my next car from him later this year. I am sure you are an honest and fair car dealer yourself, but my experiences have me forming an opinion of general disdain for those in your profession. Sorry for being blunt, and perhaps you feel the same way about Navy Fighter Pilots, like me, we are both entitled to our opinions.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Yes, honestly. Perhaps I should have elaborated. What he will NOT do is advertise or tell you a price, and when you get to the dealer try to change terms, or sell you a different and upgraded vehicle, or take your keys when you are trading in a car to "check it out" and have them disappear when you tell the dealer you don't want to deal with them anymore and would like to leave. And you finally dial the police on your cell when they "can't find" your keys and suddenly they appear. You see, these things happened to me. I call those tactics DISHONEST. Danny83 will not attempt any of those... maneuvers.

That is what I meant by "HONESTLY"

Maybe it is unfair of me to form an opinion of all car dealers from the (three) bad experiences I have had with them, but what else do I have to base it on? Would you like to hear the details? I will be glad to describe each and every encounter, but the end result is I generally place them at the level of a snake oil salesman, putting it mildly.

Danny is an exception to this opinion, and I am buying my next car from him later this year. I am sure you are an honest and fair car dealer yourself, but my experiences have me forming an opinion of general disdain for those in your profession. Sorry for being blunt, and perhaps you feel the same way about Navy Fighter Pilots, like me, we are both entitled to our opinions.

I had a bad experience trying to buy an F-14 from a Navy Fighter Pilot once... ended up with a bridge in Brooklyn

Agree Paul. There are far more bad experiences out in the ether with car dealers than good ones, hence the general distrust for dealers. As far as I know, I haven't dealt with any forum members, and don't want to unfairly cast them in the same bucket as the ones I have experienced. But as a consumer sector, car dealers have a reputation for using more shady tactics than any other consumer sector.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I had a bad experience trying to buy an F-14 from a Navy Fighter Pilot once... ended up with a bridge in Brooklyn

Agree Paul. There are far more bad experiences out in the ether with car dealers than good ones, hence the general distrust for dealers. As far as I know, I haven't dealt with any forum members, and don't want to unfairly cast them in the same bucket as the ones I have experienced. But as a consumer sector, car dealers have a reputation for using more shady tactics than any other consumer sector.

Abdullah!!!! I gave you a great deal on that bridge!!

[Tri-Tip]

I've had good and bad experiences.

Worst was an empty Infiniti dealership that would not even talk to me unless I was ready to buy a car that night. Or the Chevy dealership that would not order the Corvette I wanted, would only sell me what they had in stock.

In both cases, I went elsewhere and received good service.

I prefer to buy near my home, so I start at a dealer a distance away so that I can push them and see what price they will let me walk out without a car, then I know the bottom line and go to the nearby dealership and cut the deal.

I always know the model, trim level, etc that I want and usually know much more about the car than the dealership does.

[Lawman77]

Totally...

Who finances cars anyways? Cash is king. Then again, I only buy luxury items if/when I have 60 months salary in the bank and at least 6 gold bars in the safe.

[1William]

Buying a car for me is about the vehicle I am buying and the price I will pay. Having purchased a number of luxury vehicle over the years I go to my local dealership and test drive the vehicle I believe I want to ensure it is everything I want it to be and that it actually works for me. No discussion about buying from the sales person at that point but will take his information so I can call him back once I have completed my shopping. I then do all my research on the vehicles that are available. I also look at the depreciation, service and warranty on both a new model and a certified pre-owned model. I then find the vehicle in my region that I want. It is a call to the dealership and the sales manager. A brief discussion to confirm that my information on the vehicle is correct and a price offer/discussion. If there are any games I hang up and move on. In the end I save both my time, money and frustration. I can't say that I always get my price but I do get what I believe to be a fair price.

[WhatTheDeuce]

All I know is buying a car is worse than going to a dentist. For me at least.


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[guelerct]

All dealerships are different and have different priorities based on their goals. In a good negotiation both sides win.
I took June 30th off and visited 3 dealerships knowing what car I wanted and where my trade and price needed to land. I was upfront and found a dealer looking to hit a quarterly quota and I drove it home that day feeling that the deal was as good as it would get.

[bdex75]

I worked for a great family owned franchise car dealer for several years a long time ago. In all aspects of the business other than wrenching. Ran the body shop to learn claims, ran service to learn relationship with AD. Sold and was a finance guy.

I think that in today's age of "I want it as cheap and fast as I can and don't care about service" car dealers will have increased headwinds.

I agree. One could "build" or order a car on line, wire money from their bank to the manufacturer to pay and have shipped. Would cut out all of the middleman associated costs. But what about service? What about when they break? Who will fix them? And that is assuming that they were shipped clean, prepped and full of fuel. Ready to be dropped at your door. And do you want to test drive the car? How can you do that with no physical dealership to go to? Not saying that it has to be owned by a third party, but people want to feel and touch and drive a car before the plop down thousands of dollars on one. Kind of similar to the Rolex AD bs the gray. A lot of us go to AD to try on and decide then some buy from gray to save a a buck. (Sometimes a lot of bucks). If everyone did that how long will they be around for us to try them on? And Rolex is not going to build boutiques that they own everywhere world wide. They do t even own the ones they have now if I remember correctly.

I think dealers that charge a $1000 dealer fee are asking to run people off. But there are several around me that advertise no dealer fees. But in the end it is still the final price that matters.

Tesla is pushing the envelope against franchised dealers. Elon has enough money and determination to make it happen. Will be interesting to see if others follow suit. The expense of building your own network of dealerships is insane and why I personally believe direct sales has not yet happened with big 3.


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[azguy]

I hate the process and the last 4 cars have been purchased from private sellers, usually from Craigslist. There are pitfalls there but it's usually not price. The seller needs to deliver the car to the dealership of my choice for a "pre-buy" inspection which of course I pay for. It works for me because many $15-25K cars don't have people walking around that can just deliver cash and consummate a sale with financing and BS.

The last time I tried and buy a car at a dealership a fight almost ensued

I was looking at a Toyota Tacoma and it had something like a $25k price on it and they were going to give me $15k for my trade, there was another say $800 in dealer fees, tags, etc plus the sales tax and the sales guy is like you need to write a check or finance $15K... I'm like... I can do basic math your numbers are wrong and this stand off ensued of me saying something isn't right and him saying I don't understand math. For like 20 minutes then he's like well maybe this car isn't for you, maybe you need to look at something less expensive and I'm like you're missing something the car is $25k, and you are giving me $15k for my trade plus the $800 in fees & tags and $850 in sales tax is $11,650 why would I write a check for $15k

I finally call him an idiot/and or thief or something along those lines and that his numbers are off by $3,500 and get up and leave. By the time I get to my car the sales manager, general manager, etc are all around me asking what has gone wrong. I say you guys is a idiot and I know how to add and what you want is $3,500 to high. Finally someone hands me a breakdown, WHILE telling me I still don't know my math and I see a $3,500 extended warranty line item on the sheet and I say see what's this

Then they all say, OMG, we must have left that on the spreadsheet from the last deal we did and unless you toggle all the way to the bottom you can see the warranty add-on's and yada, yada, yada we are so sorry, it was an oversight, yada, yada, yada.

[123Blueface]

Through it all, recalling buying cars in the late 60's all the way to today, times have changed in this industry for the better. At least today, there are very many tools as have been highlighted in this thread that diminish the disadvantage the buyer had way back then. Still a drag in many instances but heck, they need you much, much more than you need them. Only one of you there to buy that day, many of them out there to sell.

Any of many sites highlighted on this thread will provide you the dealer invoice compared to MSRP. Forget incentives. Dealers are not there to give cars away. Let them get those. Be reasonable. Just negotiate down to that dealer invoice as best as you feel comfortable.

Trade in? Offer it to them. Let them give you their price. Go prepared to evaluate your car for what it is, not what you think it is. Use Blue Book, NOT NADA, or RedBook or Black Book, and get the trade in range and use that to negotiate up from their offer. Not comfortable with offer? Unbelievably, Carmax does an excellent job of offering a realistic figure for your car. Sell it to Carmax and go back for that closest to invoice figure.

If all homework is done, I am proof last month that you can buy a vehicle for dealer cost, no dealer fees, and out the door in two hours from walking in. Although frankly, I pretended to be done and started walking out twice and had them request to come back so they could see what else they could do.

And last and best of all, buy a car on the last day of the month, early evening and if they have sales charts, note who has sold the least cars and find him/her.

[Cru Jones]

I loved the "no dicker sticker" of Saturn.

[Tri-Tip]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

I loved the "no dicker sticker" of Saturn.

How did that work out for them?

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by Tri-Tip

How did that work out for them?

GM messed up Saturn, not the sales process.

When GM tried to turn Saturn into just another brand/division (even resorting to selling Opel cars in North America), it was doomed.

As for "no dicker", I still fondly remember buying the car and knowing what I was getting without the games/negotiations.

[rouxeny]

With the last car I bought (Acura MDX), the finance guy mentioned there was a "window etching fee" of a few hundred dollars. I didn't want to pay it, because I know it's a BS service and you can do it yourself if you ever really wanted to, although I'm not sure why you would. He said it was standard and done to all cars on the lot. However, I had looked closely and there were no etchings on the car, so I called them on it. Lots of blustering ensued, "Impossible, every car has it!" When they realized that I was right, they promised to dispatch somebody right away to do the etching. I told them thanks but no thanks, how about you kindly take that fee off and we'll proceed?

The worst part is that I'm sure there are a lot of customers of that dealership out there that paid the fee and got no etching!!

Bastards, as I read this thread, I'm reminded by how much I hate car stealerships.

[swils8610]

Bastards? Stealerships? Wow. Pretty strong words. With words like those I assume you work for free? A non-profit perhaps?? Does the company you own or work for make a profit to pay you? Let me tell you something...I work an average of 55 hours per week as do my most of my employees other than hourly support staff. I EARN my money doing things honestly and ethically running a dealership. The simple fact is no one forced you to buy your MDX at that dealership. You could have left. Simply taken your business elsewhere. I'm also assuming if and when it breaks you are going to to take it back to the Acura dealership you bought it at for service. I'm always cordial on this forum and keep negative comments to myself when I disagree with people. With the information people have at their fingertips via the Internet today there is no reason anyone should feel they can't a fair deal a dealership. Do the research! We do!! We research the same Internet you do on your trade value. We Google it. We see what they are selling for. We see how many are available on out market for sale and want the asking prices. We see how long on average it takes retail your trade. Anyone can get invoice pricing and dealer holdback on the Internet. And bottom line...if you don't like the deal or the way you are treated simply take your business elsewhere. It's not rocket science. I will say this...there are bad dealerships out there. There are great dealerships out there. Same as any other business. Am
I a little biased because I'm in the industry? Probably. If you've bought furniture lately did you ask the furniture dealer what his cost was? What they paid for that couch? Prob not. Did they try to sell you scotch guard for it? Prob. Can you look up the cost of that couch on the Internet? Prob not. And yet in the car biz dealer cost, holdback and trade values are everywhere on the Internet. There is no reason anyone should be taken advantage of at a dealership if they do their homework. Sorry if I've offended anyone here...but being referred to as Bastards and a Steeleeship offends me.

[UNLVino]

Originally Posted by swils8610

Bastards? Stealerships? Wow. Pretty strong words. With words like those I assume you work for free? A non-profit perhaps?? Does the company you own or work for make a profit to pay you? Let me tell you something...I work an average of 55 hours per week as do my most of my employees other than hourly support staff. I EARN my money doing things honestly and ethically running a dealership. The simple fact is no one forced you to buy your MDX at that dealership. You could have left. Simply taken your business elsewhere. I'm also assuming if and when it breaks you are going to to take it back to the Acura dealership you bought it at for service. I'm always cordial on this forum and keep negative comments to myself when I disagree with people. With the information people have at their fingertips via the Internet today there is no reason anyone should feel they can't a fair deal a dealership. Do the research! We do!! We research the same Internet you do on your trade value. We Google it. We see what they are selling for. We see how many are available on out market for sale and want the asking prices. We see how long on average it takes retail your trade. Anyone can get invoice pricing and dealer holdback on the Internet. And bottom line...if you don't like the deal or the way you are treated simply take your business elsewhere. It's not rocket science. I will say this...there are bad dealerships out there. There are great dealerships out there. Same as any other business. Am
I a little biased because I'm in the industry? Probably. If you've bought furniture lately did you ask the furniture dealer what his cost was? What they paid for that couch? Prob not. Did they try to sell you scotch guard for it? Prob. Can you look up the cost of that couch on the Internet? Prob not. And yet in the car biz dealer cost, holdback and trade values are everywhere on the Internet. There is no reason anyone should be taken advantage of at a dealership if they do their homework. Sorry if I've offended anyone here...but being referred to as Bastards and a Steeleeship offends me.

The issue is the games - I'm OK with someone making their day on my purchase, not their month. Good or bad the auto industry earned their reputation with the 4 square shell game - focus on payment not price, hide trade value, etc.

That's why I use a broker now - fair price for a car, fair financing terms, no games - the way it should be. There are honest dealers of which I am sure you are one - but the industry as a whole has a certain reputation for a reason.

[swils8610]

And lastly car dealerships are there to make a profit. Just like a Rolex AD is. Profit is not a 4 letter word. Unless you won the recent Powerball I'm assuming the company people work for or own make a profit.