Market conditions

[Aventura]

Originally Posted by MARTIN1264

It's Frustrating and Humiliating at the same time....I've said before, I love the Rolex brand but I really can't stand the new practices that they have implemented....The only reason I stay the course with Rolex is the retained value( money in the bank mostly).....But it takes the joy out of buying a watch. It's more of a Business transaction... and that's very sad.

I agree with you in what you say except in the matter of investment. If you buy a Sub today. Date you pay $ 8550 + tax which is around $ 9150 according to the state where you live ..
When you recover that money? That price was also when the watch was released in 2010? How much do you think they would pay you for that watch? I thought it would be a gray dealer because a private party is not going to send you the money before, because you do not have references. And also calculate how much would be if there was no shortage at this time.

[Aventura]

Originally Posted by playmore009

Interesting read indeed. I just don’t pay above retail as it perpetuates the current situation. If we all decide not to buy above retail or combo purchases at AD or from grey, they will get the message. I don’t hold any judgement on others.

They are not doing me a favor to take my money for exchange for their product. That is ludicrous.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Very, very well said.

[Aventura]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

This was an excellent article and it was the first I have seen to detail what is really happening.

Prior to last year, Rolex was just too available. Stores were stocked to the brim with almost everything (except Daytona -C). Even the "harder" watches BLNR and JC SDDS were just an order and a month away....

The grey market had pricing for new Sub Dates @ over 20% off! Unacceptable. The brand was in danger of losing its caché as it was being defined by SS sport watches that were ubiquitous and being sold at discount pricing. That is not good for a "luxury" brand and like it or not, that is what Rolex is.

So it was time for Rolex to clean things up and that is just what they have done.

By distributing less, they have increased SALES. Just because the case was full of watches didn't mean they were selling all of them. Now the FOMO is driving people to pull the trigger on watches they would be "meh" on if it was available all the time ( the Hulk comes to mind)....

The only thing I think Rolex really needs to do is to change it's merchandising displays to accommodate the lower distribution. As case full of empty slots looks bad from a retail perspective. If they had merchandisers with far less slots it would add even more to the exclusivity story.

I'm happy Rolex took this direction. This is why Rolex will never become Breitling or Hublot...etc Overproduced, overpriced and of diminishing value. Rolex will make the tough short term actions to endure the integrity of the brand. That is fine by me.

It is difficult to understand your comment. Do you say that the gray dealers were selling time back with a 20% discount? (8550-20%: 6840) And I want to know how they got the Sub. new? And so cheap to be able to sell them at that price and win.
Rolex did not sell them, no? How did the gray dealers obtain these watches? reach

[Aventura]

Originally Posted by EDL7

Basically..they are screwing you..the buyer that is..
But buyers put up with it..because buyers of this sort of thing respect power and money..even if it is themselves... that are getting screwed in the deal...much like politics..or bombs ..or nukes/energy in your town...or any other similar reality..
Solution..
Don't buy em anymore..don't invest..hahaha..like that's gonna happen..lol..

Agree. Very well said.

[MARTIN1264]

Originally Posted by Aventura

I agree with you in what you say except in the matter of investment. If you buy a Sub today. Date you pay $ 8550 + tax which is around $ 9150 according to the state where you live ..
When you recover that money? That price was also when the watch was released in 2010? How much do you think they would pay you for that watch? I thought it would be a gray dealer because a private party is not going to send you the money before, because you do not have references. And also calculate how much would be if there was no shortage at this time.

You kinda of lost me....Can you please explain? If I buy a Rolex, they all have residual value when compared to other watches. And it seems in most cases lately that the Sports line are more expensive even with private sales.....Again Rolex has created this scenario....Some people like it because of values. IMHO, Rolex has taken the any excitement out of buying their watches. When you spend a lot of $$ (to me at least) I think you should enjoy the buying experience.

The experience in now a Business transaction (with damn stipulations!) That's what I hate most. I mean, why did buying a watch have to become a chore? I know we all love the Brand but it's out hand. People scrambling to buy a watch LOL!!


It's a bad way to be.......

[Car32]

Originally Posted by Aventura

It is difficult to understand your comment. Do you say that the gray dealers were selling time back with a 20% discount? (8550-20%: 6840) And I want to know how they got the Sub. new? And so cheap to be able to sell them at that price and win.
Rolex did not sell them, no? How did the gray dealers obtain these watches? reach

They absolutely were, I know because I bought a subND froma trueted seller about a year ago (literally just before the madness began), brand new, stickered and no name on warranty card. And 15%-20% was th going rate for many models back then and a going back til at least 2016 when I got into the hobby.

[Aventura]

Originally Posted by LINVS

"...it is our distinct belief (based on plenty of evidence) that some of the more clever (and independently owned) watch companies are going to be increasingly limiting supply of high-demand sport watches in order to increase demand. "

This is what many of us figured out already. The SS Sports shortage isn't because of the Chinese or folks making money in the rising stock market. But Rolex is intentionally with holding supply to drive demand.



"...Because of unrealistic demands for growth, luxury watch brands produced more watches than consumers were actually willing to buy (at any price)."

So, Rolex is doing this to correct over growth and a glut of watches. The glut of watches is apparent as buyers have been accustomed to big (sometimes in excess of 20%) discounts.

I've noted that all of these "limited availability" watches are all available on the grey market. Anyone of us could have a Hunk, SD43, or White dial Daytona on our wrist tomorrow if we have the cash. But, that's hard to stomach after years of expecting a discount.

The glut of watches makes sense. The greys buy lots of watches (DJs) as long as some of those limited watches are included. For example, a grey dealer might agree to take 25 Datejusts off the hands of an AD just as long as a couple Subs and a Daytona are included. The ADs must cycle their stock otherwise they'll lose their AD status.

So bottom line, the "shortage" is due to massive "unmoved" stock.

And what does the gray dealer do with 25 Datejusts ?? Who do they sell them to? Apart it seems that with what you earn selling at a price premium Daytona makes up for buying 25 Datejusts ?? Let's do the numbers and we see ...
Apart you have to see if they sell the 116500 with those surcharges. Yes, they are offered at that price but I would like to see sales made.

[TudorTuesday]

Originally Posted by MARTIN1264

. When you spend a lot of $$ (to me at least) I think you should enjoy the buying experience.

I wish I'd had you around every time I bought a house or car. Seems when I spend a lot of money, it's always a pretty miserable experience. Maybe it's me! :(

The enjoying is always great. The buying... Always arm wrestling an "oh, one more thing" and " we're sorry, but..."

[ILuvSubs]

Great article. Thanks OP for sharing.

It certainly makes Rolex less accessible, which I think is a real shame, given its history and heritage of being a manufacturer of tool watches.

I suppose this is what happens when you become a luxury good.

[904VT]

Thanks for sharing. ABTW always has amazing pics of the references. The BLRO looks great

[MARTIN1264]

Originally Posted by TudorTuesday

I wish I'd had you around every time I bought a house or car. Seems when I spend a lot of money, it's always a pretty miserable experience. Maybe it's me! :(

The enjoying is always great. The buying... Always arm wrestling an "oh, one more thing" and " we're sorry, but..."

Most of the time, when you are buying a house it's usually for a reason (bad neighbor, downsizing etc, and needing a new or newer car is usually a necessity) but when buying a watch or a fun car it should be a nice experience..... I was in Greenwich CT. (Lot of AD's clustered in one area) yesterday looking for a Rolex, but I was also looked at other brands....It's nice to be greeted and appreciated by most of the dealers when looking at higher end and sometimes mid-tier brands. It felt to me that they were looking for my business...When I drop any type of money on something i don't need but want, I hope to enjoy the experience.

The Rolex dealer however nice, needs to follow rules laid out by Rolex. Again IMHO...Keeping stocks low helps the brand keep its (perceived by many) exclusivity...

I just think that Rolex Almighty should understand the angst and frustrations that are caused by their actions alone... Not a good way (or ethical) to treat People.

[railgrail]

Originally Posted by MARTIN1264

Most of the time, when you are buying a house it's usually for a reason (bad neighbor, downsizing etc, and needing a new or newer car is usually a necessity) but when buying a watch or a fun car it should be a nice experience..... I was in Greenwich CT. (Lot of AD's clustered in one area) yesterday looking for a Rolex, but I was also looked at other brands....It's nice to be greeted and appreciated by most of the dealers when looking at higher end and sometimes mid-tier brands. It felt to me that they were looking for my business...When I drop any type of money on something i don't need but want, I hope to enjoy the experience.

The Rolex dealer however nice, needs to follow rules laid out by Rolex. Again IMHO...Keeping stocks low helps the brand keep its (perceived by many) exclusivity...

I just think that Rolex Almighty should understand the angst and frustrations that are caused by their actions alone... Not a good way (or ethical) to treat People.

they are looking for your biz in CT bc that insolvent liberal state is literally in a death spiral; an exodus is taking place from taxes continuously going up, up and away. look at Greenwich, or New Canaan, they have become veritable ghost towns w/ For Sale signs outside of more than half the homes. so yeah, everyone wants the biz and normal ADs are stuck w/ unhappy clients, thx to the non-profit entity known as Rolex.

[MARTIN1264]

Quote

"they are looking for your biz in CT bc that insolvent liberal state is literally in a death spiral; an exodus is taking place from taxes continuously going up, up and away. look at Greenwich, or New Canaan, they have become veritable ghost towns w/ For Sale signs outside of more than half the homes. so yeah, everyone wants the biz and normal ADs are stuck w/ unhappy clients, thx to the non-profit entity known as Rolex."


Kind of a different response, but OK......

[drmizzou]

Good articles

[Speed]

Originally Posted by TudorTuesday

I wish I'd had you around every time I bought a house or car. Seems when I spend a lot of money, it's always a pretty miserable experience. Maybe it's me! :(

The enjoying is always great. The buying... Always arm wrestling an "oh, one more thing" and " we're sorry, but..."

This!

Thanks Brother... I’m with you!

[TudorTuesday]

Originally Posted by Speed

This!

Thanks Brother... I’m with you!

Here's hoping the next big purchase is a fun one!

[Speed]

Originally Posted by TudorTuesday

Here's hoping the next big purchase is a fun one!

Thanks much. I have to say, every purchase from David SW have been non-aggravating. But Perhaps if I ever bought from an AD, I’d have a different experience.

My last car and home purchase experience were less than ideal, that’s for sure.

[glassdial]

Originally Posted by TimeToWatch

Good for current owners, bad for prospective buyers.

It’s a sellers market in everything from houses to watches.

Possibly not for long, we are 10 years into a bull run. Its going to end, look at London house prices, already starting to slide, weak pound, Brexit on the horizon. Soon it will be art and luxuries on the decline.

[watchtabs]

Amazing article by Ariel. I was going to share it, glad it’s here.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Speedbird-1]

Very interesting, thought provoking thread.

With the clamour to obtain 'the latest' and the
apparent willingness of many it seems, to pay
well over the odds.
Should Rolex be reconsidering their pricing structure?

If AD's were flogging new watches at grey (selling) prices, would
this kill the greys and elevate even further the luxury status of
the brand?
'Quids in', all 'round!
Except for the ordinary punter that is, and Rolex's highly visible
marketing, tell me that Geneva aren't targeting the ordinary punter.

Ironically, it's probably the 'Grey Pound' they're after!

[VicLeChic]

I used to be totally against paying over retail for any watch from any brand. These days though I could see myself paying more for a piece I really want to start wearing and enjoying now rather than waiting years to be called by the AD if at all. I’m talking paying over list price within reason, not going overboard, 20% extra is probably my threshold. If you can spend 10K, you can probably afford to spend 2K more.

For anything else (nice watches that can wait), I’ll always hunt for the best deal in the grey market or at the AD, pursuing the highest discount.

[Art 1]

Enjoyed. Thanks.

[MonsterSS]

thanks for sharing, that was an interesting article

[JFinder]

Interesting Article

[904VT]

Originally Posted by MARTIN1264

Most of the time, when you are buying a house it's usually for a reason (bad neighbor, downsizing etc, and needing a new or newer car is usually a necessity) but when buying a watch or a fun car it should be a nice experience..... I was in Greenwich CT. (Lot of AD's clustered in one area) yesterday looking for a Rolex, but I was also looked at other brands....It's nice to be greeted and appreciated by most of the dealers when looking at higher end and sometimes mid-tier brands. It felt to me that they were looking for my business...When I drop any type of money on something i don't need but want, I hope to enjoy the experience.

The Rolex dealer however nice, needs to follow rules laid out by Rolex. Again IMHO...Keeping stocks low helps the brand keep its (perceived by many) exclusivity...

I just think that Rolex Almighty should understand the angst and frustrations that are caused by their actions alone... Not a good way (or ethical) to treat People.

I'm guessing you have never been Patek shopping...

[MARTIN1264]

Originally Posted by 904VT

I'm guessing you have never been Patek shopping...

Above my pay grade .....

[stealthhawk]

Interesting... thanks for sharing.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by Aventura

And what does the gray dealer do with 25 Datejusts ?? Who do they sell them to? Apart it seems that with what you earn selling at a price premium Daytona makes up for buying 25 Datejusts ?? Let's do the numbers and we see ...
Apart you have to see if they sell the 116500 with those surcharges. Yes, they are offered at that price but I would like to see sales made.

The grey dealer sells the (25) DJ

They will sell them to anyone who will buy them.

They sell 116500 with surcharges everyday.

Everybody wins!