Buying just to flip

[AperolSpritz]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Changing the topic a bit - is all your AP history with the same boutique or even same SA/manager, or have you been spreading things around? I understand that all the boutiques have access to purchase history and other info, but am wondering how important loyalty to a particular place or even person is.

All with the same boutique yes (not an AD - AP boutique). However I changed SAs over the years as some of them moved on.

But you are right, everywhere in the world they have access to your profile.
Was in Capri a couple years back. Passed by to say hi, they looked me up on screen and all of a sudden several hot pieces came out of the safe in those white carton AP boxes ready for me to buy... In hindsight should have taken that steel QP @ 55k ;-)

[westoque]

It’s all personal. For me, I’ve been offered 15500OR, 41/38mm Chronos, multiple offshores and recently a Code 11 Perpetual Calendar but passed on the opportunities due to me wanting to maintain the relationship to be able to buy retail together with the experience. I’m just focusing on a watch that I really want, the jumbo, even though it’s discontinued, I’m still banking on the fact that maybe next year with a new release I’ll get the opportunity to buy. My AP grail however is the Perpetual Calendar Black Ceramic and will focus on that next when I get my jumbo.


For the flippers, I can see the logic of selling and making a quick buck but that’s not my thing, together with being banned and not getting the opportunity to buy from the boutique anymore. Not sure if everyone knows but having a relationship with the boutique has perks, you get to go to events, get some free stuff (bags, watch travel cases), get to AP tours in Switzerland, get bought dinners to name a few. I was waiting for a holiday gift but maybe I’m not VIP enough to on that list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AperolSpritz]

Originally Posted by westoque

It’s all personal. For me, I’ve been offered 15500OR, 41/38mm Chronos, multiple offshores and recently a Code 11 Perpetual Calendar but passed on the opportunities due to me wanting to maintain the relationship to be able to buy retail together with the experience. I’m just focusing on a watch that I really want, the jumbo, even though it’s discontinued, I’m still banking on the fact that maybe next year with a new release I’ll get the opportunity to buy. My AP grail however is the Perpetual Calendar Black Ceramic and will focus on that next when I get my jumbo.


For the flippers, I can see the logic of selling and making a quick buck but that’s not my thing, together with being banned and not getting the opportunity to buy from the boutique anymore. Not sure if everyone knows but having a relationship with the boutique has perks, you get to go to events, get some free stuff (bags, watch travel cases), get to AP tours in Switzerland, get bought dinners to name a few. I was waiting for a holiday gift but maybe I’m not VIP enough to on that list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This year I received an AP panettone.

Last year it was a Michelin star dinner for 2 and two very nice bottles. Maybe I should have taken the QP

[TunaTuna]

Of course you take it because it sells at a premium and you can always sell it down the road if you want, not necessarily flipping it right away.

This is what EVERYONE is doing with Rolex, RM and hot AP and Patek.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by AperolSpritz

All with the same boutique yes (not an AD - AP boutique). However I changed SAs over the years as some of them moved on.

But you are right, everywhere in the world they have access to your profile.
Was in Capri a couple years back. Passed by to say hi, they looked me up on screen and all of a sudden several hot pieces came out of the safe in those white carton AP boxes ready for me to buy... In hindsight should have taken that steel QP @ 55k ;-)

[m3jasper]

Originally Posted by Willyjo

This is absolutely correct if you buy from an AP boutique. You can flip from AD's.

Sent from my SM-G985F using Tapatalk

Most AD's in the USA have to use AP's CRM. Not sure if it's the same way in the ROW. They register the watch for you once you purchase it, so the moment the person you sell it to registers it, you're screwed.

Originally Posted by AperolSpritz

Well first thanks for saying that but yes and no.
True they told me they basically couldn't allocate me the steel and ceramic skeleton so for these two pieces I had to chose. But no trouble getting the rose gold one and the ceramic QP on top of one of the two others mentioned above. And frankly I now regret not taking the QP white ceramic but that is another question. At the time I thought it was too much an Ibiza/Mykonos only watch ;-)

And just to be clear, I didn't get the 15416CE yet, and many of you told me "a bird in the hand..."

But what my SA actually told me is that refusing all these pieces actually raised my profile with AP (as they saw am not a flipper and truly was going for what I liked/wanted).

After having said all this, I do realize the insanity of putting so much thoughts and efforts into analyzing how to get the "honor and opportunity" to spend a hundred thousand dollars on a watch !

That definitely makes a difference from what I've seen.

Originally Posted by westoque

It’s all personal. For me, I’ve been offered 15500OR, 41/38mm Chronos, multiple offshores and recently a Code 11 Perpetual Calendar but passed on the opportunities due to me wanting to maintain the relationship to be able to buy retail together with the experience. I’m just focusing on a watch that I really want, the jumbo, even though it’s discontinued, I’m still banking on the fact that maybe next year with a new release I’ll get the opportunity to buy. My AP grail however is the Perpetual Calendar Black Ceramic and will focus on that next when I get my jumbo.


For the flippers, I can see the logic of selling and making a quick buck but that’s not my thing, together with being banned and not getting the opportunity to buy from the boutique anymore. Not sure if everyone knows but having a relationship with the boutique has perks, you get to go to events, get some free stuff (bags, watch travel cases), get to AP tours in Switzerland, get bought dinners to name a few. I was waiting for a holiday gift but maybe I’m not VIP enough to on that list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hate to break it to you, but the 26579CE has been discontinued. Hopefully they'll come out with a new version with a new dial, etc.

[Bearxj86]

I think there is an 3rd alternative here.

Buy it, wear it for a while or keep it in the safe.
Sell it at below market (maybe take some profit for your troubles) to a friend or private collector - not a dealer.
Or trade it in a private to private sale for something you DO want.

The key is to be discrete if you are doing this.

[westoque]

Originally Posted by m3jasper

Hate to break it to you, but the 26579CE has been discontinued. Hopefully they'll come out with a new version with a new dial, etc.

Oh. Didn't know that, but all good since I think there's always a new release and means a new grail. Point being having the relationship should pay off in any case.

[Armis]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Typically, the boutique will register it under your AP account (to extend your warranty from 2 to 5 years) as a courtesy when you pick it up. If it later is registered under a different account, well, there you go.

So if I register a preowned AP (a ROO in this case) online, then does that watch then disappear off the previous owners “my watches” list??

[911AP]

Originally Posted by Armis

So if I register a preowned AP (a ROO in this case) online, then does that watch then disappear off the previous owners “my watches” list??

Yes

[supernova]

Flipping with AP is a big no no and they definitely track it.

My SA at AP house was telling me a story about how he sold a Blue 15500st to a client he really liked and trusted only to find it was sold and Re registered a couple months later. He was telling me how disgusted and betrayed he felt, because in essence he just handed him 20-30k cash. Quite sure that client isn’t getting any more watches from AP!

Definitely a much different experience to the Rolex game, AP does value its clients more and I do get a sense of joining the family with AP, however odd that may sound. That’s the big difference between Rolex and AP on the experiences side.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[squall1]

Originally Posted by supernova

Definitely a much different experience to the Rolex game, AP does value its clients more and I do get a sense of joining the family with AP, however odd that may sound. That’s the big difference between Rolex and AP on the experiences side.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Same for me, doesn't sound odd at all. Its pretty clear they put some thought into planning out their allocations and spreading the love...trying to accommodate new customers.

Not saying this never happens for some at Rolex, but for me it feels completely random and mechanical.

[Harry_S]

Originally Posted by AperolSpritz

Over the last 18 months, I refused 3 hot pieces:
- Skeleton rose gold
- White ceramic QP
- Skeleton steel

I had the cash to buy them. All in all we are talking c.$230k MSRP vs. c.$700k grey.
Take out grey premium. Probably could have sold these for c.550k to grey so making 300k profits.

Well I didn't. I am waiting for my skeleton ceramic and 50y RO specials that are coming my way.

Call me an idiot I don't care. But been buying AP since the days you were losing money on them and will continue to. An the guys know that...

I salute you sir, a true enthusiast 🤝🏆

[Knoxx]

I just dont understand why boutique/ ad would blacklist "flippers"
once the watch is yours than you can do whatever you like, wear it/ keep it/ sell it/throw it/ burn it..

Long before watches like ap, rolex, pp, rm gone crazy i used to gift my principal and client rolex submarine as a gift.. they dont call me flipper
a lot of people buy watches for a gift, are they flippers?

[Knoxx]

Originally Posted by westoque

It’s all personal. For me, I’ve been offered 15500OR, 41/38mm Chronos, multiple offshores and recently a Code 11 Perpetual Calendar but passed on the opportunities due to me wanting to maintain the relationship to be able to buy retail together with the experience. I’m just focusing on a watch that I really want, the jumbo, even though it’s discontinued, I’m still banking on the fact that maybe next year with a new release I’ll get the opportunity to buy. My AP grail however is the Perpetual Calendar Black Ceramic and will focus on that next when I get my jumbo.


For the flippers, I can see the logic of selling and making a quick buck but that’s not my thing, together with being banned and not getting the opportunity to buy from the boutique anymore. Not sure if everyone knows but having a relationship with the boutique has perks, you get to go to events, get some free stuff (bags, watch travel cases), get to AP tours in Switzerland, get bought dinners to name a few. I was waiting for a holiday gift but maybe I’m not VIP enough to on that list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am sorry, but if i am an SA i would think you are a flipper.
You just want the highest % profit such us jumbo and qp black ceramic.
In order to get jumbo you have to climb, work with them by purchase others such code, roo, jules etc.

Its like a ferrari, you cant go to a dealer and say i want to order LaFerrari. In order to get a Laferrari you have to have a long purchase history with the brand.

cheers

[911AP]

Originally Posted by Knoxx

I just dont understand why boutique/ ad would blacklist "flippers"
once the watch is yours than you can do whatever you like, wear it/ keep it/ sell it/throw it/ burn it..

Long before watches like ap, rolex, pp, rm gone crazy i used to gift my principal and client rolex submarine as a gift.. they dont call me flipper
a lot of people buy watches for a gift, are they flippers?

I don't think they have an issue with gift giving. But I'd tell the SA the intention before you did it since the registration of the warranty would change immediately if given as a gift.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by Knoxx

I just dont understand why boutique/ ad would blacklist "flippers"
once the watch is yours than you can do whatever you like, wear it/ keep it/ sell it/throw it/ burn it..

Long before watches like ap, rolex, pp, rm gone crazy i used to gift my principal and client rolex submarine as a gift.. they dont call me flipper
a lot of people buy watches for a gift, are they flippers?

Watch manufacturers don't want you competing with them to sell their watches, particularly when the resale vs MSRP is so high that you can make a greater profit on their watches than they do. They are also tired of having potential clients whining that they can't buy a watch from the boutique but there are hundreds listed for sale on Chrono24.
The terror campaign against flippers is designed to reduce criticism of watch manufacturers and cries of favoritism while, at the same time, promoting bundling, sales of less popular models.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by Knoxx

I am sorry, but if i am an SA i would think you are a flipper.
You just want the highest % profit such us jumbo and qp black ceramic.
In order to get jumbo you have to climb, work with them by purchase others such code, roo, jules etc.

cheers

You sound like you have been drinking the kool aid from the AD...

Like the other guy the Jumbo and some QPs are the only APs I'd be interested in. Not to flip but to wear! 15500? Don't like the large empty dial which makes it look even bigger. 15450? Thick for the size... Code? Worse than unattractive in my eyes... Offshore? Some are nice but small wrists...

Now you may say the brand is not for me if I only like the Jumbo and some QPs. This is totally ok as I am quite content where I am.

[mykii]

Have been offered watches (Rolex's) numerous times and have turned them down. Wouldn't flip, fullstop. Plus, the premiums are far, far, lower than what people would expect. Not worth the hassle at all.

[Goin2drt]

Originally Posted by mykii

Have been offered watches (Rolex's) numerous times and have turned them down. Wouldn't flip, fullstop. Plus, the premiums are far, far, lower than what people would expect. Not worth the hassle at all.

Perfect since you are so against it and “premiums are far, far lower” I will take your Hulk off your hands at MSRP when ready to sell. Oh and if you have a white faced Daytona I will take that one as well since the premiums aren’t worth it to you.

[BumbleB]

I’ve passed on numerous ‘hot models’ like the SubLV, SeaDwellers, SkyDwellers because I either already had them or didn’t want them.

Frankly, I couldn’t be bothered going through the hassle of buying them and then trying to sell them to some grey dealer that’s going to tell me the market price has recently dropped and all that BS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[911AP]

Originally Posted by mykii

Have been offered watches (Rolex's) numerous times and have turned them down. Wouldn't flip, fullstop. Plus, the premiums are far, far, lower than what people would expect. Not worth the hassle at all.

Originally Posted by BumbleB

I’ve passed on numerous ‘hot models’ like the SubLV, SeaDwellers, SkyDwellers because I either already had them or didn’t want them.

Frankly, I couldn’t be bothered going through the hassle of buying them and then trying to sell them to some grey dealer that’s going to tell me the market price has recently dropped and all that BS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What logic is this? The premiums on Rolex are still double retail at a minimum. Rolex doesn't track flippers to my understanding the way AP and Patek does. It would be the dumbest thing to not buy the watches, and if you don't like them just sell them. You could sell them instantly to any of the big grey dealers.

Any AP or Rolex I have sold literally was in a day or maybe a week if I was a bit more ambitious in price.

[peb35]

Hi all, this thread is interesting!

Beside the original subject, what about you could buy from the boutique a niece piece that you really wanted, but few months later you feel it doesn't fit you that well, or you get a call from another boutique (different brand) saying the piece you wait for 5 years is finally available and need some cash ?

I recently "got the call" from my boutique for a nice blue dial AP Offshore Diver, I told them few months ago that I like it and I had the chance they thought about me.
I was very very happy but then feel it's kinda "big" for my thin wrist, I have a friend who would like to buy it from me (of course not as high as the current market).

As I know well the sales person, I think I will inform him if I sell it to a friend.
He offered me other niece pieces before (also in Royal Oak range) that I declined last year, because it was whatever not the model I really wanted or it was too expensive.
I don't think I would be a "flipper" if I sell it like that.
But, how AP can judge if we are? What are the rules? I mean if sell a piece after 6 months is maybe not considered as a flipper? At some point, except if you have a lot of cash, you need to sell some watches when you want to buy a new one :-)

[peb35]

Originally Posted by 911AP

What logic is this? The premiums on Rolex are still double retail at a minimum. Rolex doesn't track flippers to my understanding the way AP and Patek does. It would be the dumbest thing to not buy the watches, and if you don't like them just sell them. You could sell them instantly to any of the big grey dealers.

Any AP or Rolex I have sold literally was in a day or maybe a week if I was a bit more ambitious in price.

Well he just doesn't want to bother to resell the watch, I can understand that! List the watch for sale, reply to all the requests of how much lower can you do, searching if buyer is reliable, waiting the payment, sending the watch over or meet someone in person (= take a risk), etc...
Except if you are in Hong-Kong or Singapore where you have tons of grey dealers can buy fast and where it's safe... it's a hassle to re-sell a watch when you are not used to it.

[underpar31009]

Originally Posted by mnl

i hate people who buy to flip, i firmly believe that you should only buy if you actually want to own it, otherwise you should leave it available for the next person who wants to own it can have the opportunity to buy.

so no, i would definitely not buy just to flip it.

Well said. Never buy to flip.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rolex16]

Originally Posted by peb35

Hi all, this thread is interesting!

Beside the original subject, what about you could buy from the boutique a niece piece that you really wanted, but few months later you feel it doesn't fit you that well, or you get a call from another boutique (different brand) saying the piece you wait for 5 years is finally available and need some cash ?

I recently "got the call" from my boutique for a nice blue dial AP Offshore Diver, I told them few months ago that I like it and I had the chance they thought about me.
I was very very happy but then feel it's kinda "big" for my thin wrist, I have a friend who would like to buy it from me (of course not as high as the current market).

As I know well the sales person, I think I will inform him if I sell it to a friend.
He offered me other niece pieces before (also in Royal Oak range) that I declined last year, because it was whatever not the model I really wanted or it was too expensive.
I don't think I would be a "flipper" if I sell it like that.
But, how AP can judge if we are? What are the rules? I mean if sell a piece after 6 months is maybe not considered as a flipper? At some point, except if you have a lot of cash, you need to sell some watches when you want to buy a new one :-)

This is a great question and one that I wonder about. I remember the old days when watches were available and you could do as you pleased after purchase. Didn't love it, or loved something more and needed cash, you sold it. Now, you live in fear of being blacklisted forever if a watch doesn't work for you and you want to sell it. For how long? 6 months, a year, 2 years, or what?

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by underpar31009

Well said. Never buy to flip.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Okay, but what if you're standing at the counter of your ADs store examining said unicorn, call it a black dial 15500, which is priced at MSRP, and there's a guy leaning almost on top of you, crowding you, looking over your shoulder and he says "Hey, you gonna buy that watch or just look at it? Cause I can resell it ten minutes from now in my little shop on the corner and make a bundle. So make up your mind, I can't leave my second hand watch store locked up all day."
Would you buy it then, knowing that it wasn't going to go to some deserving soul who's only wish in life is to buy a nice $30,000 watch at retail but instead was going to this filthy reseller? Huh? What would you do then?

[underpar31009]

Originally Posted by cascavel

Okay, but what if you're standing at the counter of your ADs store examining said unicorn, call it a black dial 15500, which is priced at MSRP, and there's a guy leaning almost on top of you, crowding you, looking over your shoulder and he says "Hey, you gonna buy that watch or just look at it? Cause I can resell it ten minutes from now in my little shop on the corner and make a bundle. So make up your mind, I can't leave my second hand watch store locked up all day."
Would you buy it then, knowing that it wasn't going to go to some deserving soul who's only wish in life is to buy a nice $30,000 watch at retail but instead was going to this filthy reseller? Huh? What would you do then?

You bring up an interesting situation. I would buy it and enjoy it. I have always wanted a black dial 15500.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jgives]

People flip houses, people flip cars, people flip art. Why should watches be treated any differently? It is what it is. If there’s a market and money to be made, embrace it as fact.

[Benzsiam]

I have nothing against the flippers but I wouldn’t do it myself. I have passed many Rolexes in the past, I buy only the pieces that I love and plan to keep it for long. I am good at buying but not good at selling. Selling is a lots of hassle, the profit isn’t really worth the headache for me.