The future of CODE 11.59

[In-N-Out]

Originally Posted by Pfang56

My pleasure! Considering another CODE later this year...


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Which one??

[Octagon Guy]

Originally Posted by PattayaHammerTime

not me... I went to the boutique to actually get a code, was asked if I was interested in other models and said no just the code for now.

I understand that the RO is well known even to non watch people and the usual lot of trying to get one to make a premium on it or even wear it to tell people paid X and is worth Y now, I did that with a PP 5164a as I first purchased it to wear as I liked it but when it was getting spotted by randoms and getting comments I sold it for the hefty hype premium that it commanded.

People are the same with their homes as well, buying somewhere to live and stressing how much it's worth, is a strange world!

You are not alone. I also placed interest for a CODE just last month at the Boutique. And they also asked if there's any other models I would consider and I politely declined.

[Pfang56]

Originally Posted by In-N-Out

Which one??

To be continued...;)


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[PreferHackingSeconds]

Originally Posted by nickorette

I suspect that even those that like the codes, if given the opportunity to purchase a RO instead would have chosen the latter.

AP needs to stop wasting their precious resources overmaking references nobody wants, dedicate that to RO production instead. Less codes and offshore will raise secondary up to msrp, and people would be more likely to purchase knowing they won't lose their shirt if they have to sell.

More RO will reduce crazy grey premiums, lowering demand from flippers and therefore more for collectors/enthusiasts

I beg to differ. Asked for a Steel code when it was launched. I actually liked it and the previous fume dials that had the numerals just didn’t do it for me. The new stamped dial with the indices alone struck me the moment I saw the launch and I had to have it.

Also, I don’t think the code is eating up RO production. Think the CEO said in an interview that it was 12% of production or something. If they made ROs only people will jump on the bandwagon saying AP is a one trick pony. Can’t really please everyone these days.

I actually like the Code for the fact that the shape is super unique and those who know knows. Hoping for a dual time version soon as the Code is my go to travel watch.

[nickorette]

Originally Posted by Octagon Guy

I hear a contradicting view here. On one hand, you felt people are keeping their distance from CODE as they are losing their shirt over them but on the other hand, you felt high premium for ROs is not healthy. Isn't the so called crazy premium you are mentioning what it's supposed to be "not losing the shirt" for RO owners?

The losses on codes and offshores are substantial, as are the gains for RO. I think it would be healthier if both models offered modest gains, and that would mean making less codes/offshores and more RO.

[Bpan]

Originally Posted by Octagon Guy

I hear a contradicting view here. On one hand, you felt people are keeping their distance from CODE as they are losing their shirt over them but on the other hand, you felt high premium for ROs is not healthy. Isn't the so called crazy premium you are mentioning what it's supposed to be "not losing the shirt" for RO owners?

He is saying production should be rebalanced so that the supply matches the demand and that the market clearing price for all references is close to (maybe slightly above) the MSRP. With this, the flippers will be removed and watch enthusiasts will get the watches they want without an excessive wait and without instantly losing a large percent of the value when they walk out the door

[Halothane]

Originally Posted by PreferHackingSeconds

I actually like the Code for the fact that the shape is super unique and those who know knows.

Round is unique ?


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[In-N-Out]

Originally Posted by Halothane

Round is unique ?


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technically the best selling watch in the world is a polygon (rectangle, Apple Watch), and the best selling AP is also a polygon (an octagon)

[PreferHackingSeconds]

Originally Posted by Halothane

Round is unique ?


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The case appears round from the top. When you look at it in the centre it’s an octagon. And when you look at it flat, the curved crystal does it for me, looks something like a stadium

Add the floating bottom lugs and the case itself is a work of art in my honest opinion.

[Palex]

Originally Posted by PreferHackingSeconds

The case appears round from the top. When you look at it in the centre it’s an octagon. And when you look at it flat, the curved crystal does it for me, looks something like a stadium

Add the floating bottom lugs and the case itself is a work of art in my honest opinion.

Those who know, know;-)

[Octagon Guy]

Originally Posted by nickorette

The losses on codes and offshores are substantial, as are the gains for RO. I think it would be healthier if both models offered modest gains, and that would mean making less codes/offshores and more RO.

Originally Posted by Bpan

He is saying production should be rebalanced so that the supply matches the demand and that the market clearing price for all references is close to (maybe slightly above) the MSRP. With this, the flippers will be removed and watch enthusiasts will get the watches they want without an excessive wait and without instantly losing a large percent of the value when they walk out the door

At approximately 11% production for CODEs, I don't think that's alot. I would think the issue lies with the flippers/AD mentality to buy/sell a CODE to be allocated/allocate a RO. That results in people who doesn't appreciate the CODE to buy and dispose to recover funds. That causes the open market price to tank significantly, especially for CODEs.

I did discuss with my Boutique manager if it's true that getting a CODE is the key to a RO allocation (just a casual discussion as I'm the rare few that has no interest in RO/ROO) and she explained it's a concept misunderstood. Her explanation is that during the hype, as everyone knows, the demand for RO is so high that it spills over to the ROO. And allocation priority is reserved for existing clients. So to be on the list, the fastest way is to become an existing customer. The 1st purchase can be any watch. But needless to say, the CODE is one of the easiest then. I have friends who kick start their journey with a ROO in 2021/2022 and have received their ROs as their 2nd or 3rd piece. And to date, they don't own any 11.59

And Boutique is trying to change the mass mentality and remedy the situation by prioritising the sale of Steel CODEs and Starwheel to existing CODE owners.

[PreferHackingSeconds]

Originally Posted by Octagon Guy

At approximately 11% production for CODEs, I don't think that's alot. I would think the issue lies with the flippers/AD mentality to buy/sell a CODE to be allocated/allocate a RO. That results in people who doesn't appreciate the CODE to buy and dispose to recover funds. That causes the open market price to tank significantly, especially for CODEs.

I did discuss with my Boutique manager if it's true that getting a CODE is the key to a RO allocation (just a casual discussion as I'm the rare few that has no interest in RO/ROO) and she explained it's a concept misunderstood. Her explanation is that during the hype, as everyone knows, the demand for RO is so high that it spills over to the ROO. And allocation priority is reserved for existing clients. So to be on the list, the fastest way is to become an existing customer. The 1st purchase can be any watch. But needless to say, the CODE is one of the easiest then. I have friends who kick start their journey with a ROO in 2021/2022 and have received their ROs as their 2nd or 3rd piece. And to date, they don't own any 11.59

And Boutique is trying to change the mass mentality and remedy the situation by prioritising the sale of Steel CODEs and Starwheel to existing CODE owners.

Interestingly in my boutique, when I first visited in 2022, told me the easiest piece to start was a ROO or a 34/37mm RO. The Codes were produced a lot less. The manager then tried to find me a 26420IO, to no avail and told me to revisit again when there is something else I like.

[Johndong888]

Originally Posted by Audevache

Isn’t that the same purple of the 2024 stainless steel tourbillon RO? I thought I didn’t like that color but it turns out I actually do.

I thought the same when I saw the stock photos. In person, the dial is crazy nice.


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[dauster]

Hopefully more of this




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[ButtButt]

Originally Posted by dauster

Hopefully more of this




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So clean and simple, love it.

[Octagon Guy]

Originally Posted by PreferHackingSeconds

Interestingly in my boutique, when I first visited in 2022, told me the easiest piece to start was a ROO or a 34/37mm RO. The Codes were produced a lot less. The manager then tried to find me a 26420IO, to no avail and told me to revisit again when there is something else I like.

Probably different Boutiques at different regions are having different inventory/demand. But it all points to the same scenario. All SA are trying to help new clients-to-be kick start their journey. But sadly, it has been badly misinterpreted as a "bundling" sales tactic.

[Halothane]

Originally Posted by PreferHackingSeconds

The case appears round from the top. When you look at it in the centre it’s an octagon. And when you look at it flat, the curved crystal does it for me, looks something like a stadium

Add the floating bottom lugs and the case itself is a work of art in my honest opinion.

“The lady doth protest too much”, lol.
However , I did just see a Code for sale that I actually think is very striking. Does anyone know the MSRP of this piece ?



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[Halothane]

Originally Posted by Octagon Guy

Probably different Boutiques at different regions are having different inventory/demand. But it all points to the same scenario. All SA are trying to help new clients-to-be kick start their journey. But sadly, it has been badly misinterpreted as a "bundling" sales tactic.

It's not "misinterpreted" at all. In fact it's worse than bundling because when you buy a Code you don't get the RO at the same time. You AP fanboys can say what you like but outside a few pieces AP is a one-trick Royal Oak company and they know this. Some sales agents appear to be better than others but when I have personally heard the following from SA's, there is no misinterpretation:

A code is a great way to become an existing customer

A code for the wife would help your chance for a Royal Oak

AP wants to see you are a fan of the "brand" so its helpful to own a piece from every line

[Halothane]

Originally Posted by Palex

Those who know, know;-)

Those who know, know they are half price on the aftermarket

[Steele]

Originally Posted by Halothane

“The lady doth protest too much”, lol.
However , I did just see a Code for sale that I actually think is very striking. Does anyone know the MSRP of this piece ?



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I think 160-165k USD. And they are going for 95k ish now. One just for sale in a GG watches video just posted a few hours ago on YouTube black dial yellow or rose gold. With Turb

[Halothane]

Originally Posted by Steele

I think 160-165k USD. And they are going for 95k ish now. One just for sale in a GG watches video just posted a few hours ago on YouTube black dial yellow or rose gold. With Turb

Thanks. Asking price on this was 99k and its basically new. It's a cool piece but once again why I think they are crazy raising prices on pieces that sell at such a loss on the secondary. That's a huge hit for the seller. Hopefully he's rewarded with a rare RO.

[PreferHackingSeconds]

Originally Posted by Halothane

It's not "misinterpreted" at all. In fact it's worse than bundling because when you buy a Code you don't get the RO at the same time. You AP fanboys can say what you like but outside a few pieces AP is a one-trick Royal Oak company and they know this. Some sales agents appear to be better than others but when I have personally heard the following from SA's, there is no misinterpretation:

A code is a great way to become an existing customer

A code for the wife would help your chance for a Royal Oak

AP wants to see you are a fan of the "brand" so its helpful to own a piece from every line

Seems hard to please everyone. If AP makes the Royal Oak alone, people accuse AP of being a one trick pony. They make a non RO watch and people are yet still unhappy.

As for secondary prices, I wouldn't mind if everything went to the good old days of being under retail. Not too long ago, Rolex Steel professional models and Nautiluses sat in the display case and the AD was offering them at a discount.

At the end of the day, I want to buy my watches to celebrate a milestone, so I would prefer getting them from the boutique brand new. If everyone cared so much about resale, who would buy them new? There are many great watches that lose a lot of value the moment you buy it, yet many people still do so.

[Octagon Guy]

Originally Posted by PreferHackingSeconds

Seems hard to please everyone. If AP makes the Royal Oak alone, people accuse AP of being a one trick pony. They make a non RO watch and people are yet still unhappy.

As for secondary prices, I wouldn't mind if everything went to the good old days of being under retail. Not too long ago, Rolex Steel professional models and Nautiluses sat in the display case and the AD was offering them at a discount.

At the end of the day, I want to buy my watches to celebrate a milestone, so I would prefer getting them from the boutique brand new. If everyone cared so much about resale, who would buy them new? There are many great watches that lose a lot of value the moment you buy it, yet many people still do so.

That's precisely why I try to ignore these hater's posts after I realised they are the ones who not necessarily hate the design of the CODE, but rather, hate the fact they faced difficulties about obtaining a RO at msrp from Boutique. Derived this conclusion as they are always nagging about the value depreciation like a broken record, rather than pinpoint any design flaws. Which I believe they can't really find any as anyone who has really handled a CODE and is open minded, would agree the design and workmanship way supercedes a RO/ROO. But anyone can still choose not to like the CODE as someone's meat is another's poison. Just stating we shd be more objective.

[Palex]

Originally Posted by Halothane

Those who know, know they are half price on the aftermarket

You wish. I bought my Starwheel in January at 60K. Can you show me the ones for 30K?

What’s more, if you could, which you can’t, I couldn’t care less, cause I can afford it. It’s not my last money. Nore am I “investing” in watches.

Post like yours are mostly from people who can’t afford them and have never seen one, other than on their screen.

Cheers!

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Halothane

It's not "misinterpreted" at all. In fact it's worse than bundling because when you buy a Code you don't get the RO at the same time. You AP fanboys can say what you like but outside a few pieces AP is a one-trick Royal Oak company and they know this. Some sales agents appear to be better than others but when I have personally heard the following from SA's, there is no misinterpretation:

A code is a great way to become an existing customer

A code for the wife would help your chance for a Royal Oak

AP wants to see you are a fan of the "brand" so its helpful to own a piece from every line

The Code is not my style but it has done well here over the years and is a bona fide new AP sports line alongside the RO and ROO, now lets see if PP can do the same with Cubitus, already a much worse name than the Code, and I doubt it will be anything more than filler for those who cannot get a Naut/ Aqua so PP have a hard road and you PP fanboys had better wait and see if PP can match AP in a succesful new sports line, so far a bad start.

[Pfang56]

Originally Posted by Halothane

Thanks. Asking price on this was 99k and its basically new. It's a cool piece but once again why I think they are crazy raising prices on pieces that sell at such a loss on the secondary. That's a huge hit for the seller. Hopefully he's rewarded with a rare RO.

That's insane!!!

TBH - I somewhat appreciate your flippers perspective and hyper focus on grey market prices, because it's giving me some bad ideas to break my streak of not buying in the grey. Any good deals in Patek or Rollie to share? Or are you already on top of those...PM me!


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[TheHolyLuck]

Originally Posted by Halothane

“The lady doth protest too much”, lol.
However , I did just see a Code for sale that I actually think is very striking. Does anyone know the MSRP of this piece ?



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I saw it in the flesh in boutique in january.
I didn’t like the fume effect + sparkles. Was too much for me in all ways lol.

[Audevache]

Originally Posted by Steele

I think 160-165k USD. And they are going for 95k ish now. One just for sale in a GG watches video just posted a few hours ago on YouTube black dial yellow or rose gold. With Turb

If you want to go Tourbillon, get the Onyx. It’s amazing.

[Halothane]

Originally Posted by Palex

You wish. I bought my Starwheel in January at 60K. Can you show me the ones for 30K?

What’s more, if you could, which you can’t, I couldn’t care less, cause I can afford it. It’s not my last money. Nore am I “investing” in watches.

Post like yours are mostly from people who can’t afford them and have never seen one, other than on their screen.

Cheers!

Congrats! The one code that has sold above retail is indeed the Starwheel. And I would consider that one at retail , it's a cool watch and dial. All the rest have poor resale like I mentioned and have posted. You can buy a 109K retail Code PC new for 58k today if you like.
I can afford a Code and I have handled and worn them as I do attend GTG and sell friends pieces on the side as a hobby. I'm not a total Code hater. I will agree its a very comfortable watch on the wrist and a unique design. I like the midcase in contrast especially ceramic. My fault lies mostly with the dials (especially the early generations) which please let us admit were awful. The star wheel and tourbs look MUCH better imo. But on most of the better dials, the retail prices are absurd. It's a money grab on someone's "journey" to their dream RO. I'm wondering now if there will be enough of these high end desired RO's to go around for in the future for those buyers with the expansion of the Code line? Only time will tell.

[Audevache]

Originally Posted by Halothane

Congrats! The one code that has sold above retail is indeed the Starwheel. And I would consider that one at retail , it's a cool watch and dial. All the rest have poor resale like I mentioned and have posted. You can buy a 109K retail Code PC new for 58k today if you like.
I can afford a Code and I have handled and worn them as I do attend GTG and sell friends pieces on the side as a hobby. I'm not a total Code hater. I will agree its a very comfortable watch on the wrist and a unique design. I like the midcase in contrast especially ceramic. My fault lies mostly with the dials (especially the early generations) which please let us admit were awful. The star wheel and tourbs look MUCH better imo. But on most of the better dials, the retail prices are absurd. It's a money grab on someone's "journey" to their dream RO. I'm wondering now if there will be enough of these high end desired RO's to go around for in the future for those buyers with the expansion of the Code line? Only time will tell.

I agree that the dials and fonts of the 1st gen entry level Codes weren't that great.

I don't see a fault with the new gen of stamped dials launched since last year, and that have now been totally replacing the older dials across the entire lineup.

And please elaborate why the Codes are more of a "money grab" than pretty much any Calatrava or Lange Saxonia/1815 for example ?