Rolex buying "experience" has left me kinda sour

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

As far as quality goes, there's no comparison. GS is superior to Rolex in every metric, and it isn't close.

Can you quote these metrics and their objective measurements, specifically the ones that aren’t close. I’m very curious to see how you will attempt to support this blanket unsubstantiated statement.

My objective measurement of Grand Seiko is that they don’t make anything that I want to wear, and it isn’t close.

[Henrimontgomery]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

I agree, and when it comes to other brands, Tudor and Grand Seiko are absolutely killing it, and the ADs will treat you with respect.

GS in particular are now making vastly higher-quality and varied watches than Rolex, and Tudor is to all intents & purposes a cut-price Rolex without all the brand baggage - both good and bad. It just depends on how hung-up you are on the little coronet. I bought a GS Spring Drive Omiwatari last month and had to wait a whole two weeks for it to arrive...

I don’t see it. Every time I handle GS, the only think I see is big thick watches. I really really wish I could see the hype, but they are just bland.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

I agree, and when it comes to other brands, Tudor and Grand Seiko are absolutely killing it, and the ADs will treat you with respect.

GS in particular are now making vastly higher-quality and varied watches than Rolex, and Tudor is to all intents & purposes a cut-price Rolex without all the brand baggage - both good and bad. It just depends on how hung-up you are on the little coronet. I bought a GS Spring Drive Omiwatari last month and had to wait a whole two weeks for it to arrive...

GS watches are not in high demand at the moment. That could change, anything can happen. But availability is solely determined by supply and demand and if they are available, supply outpaces demand. This easy retail availability dynamic also determines value retention in the used markets.

[Watchman001]

Guess some people missed this part of the OP:

« One individual flat and told me his pieces are from an AD but he sells them and splits the profits with the AD, he offered to show me the warranty cards and the information on all the pieces as well as letting me contact the AD if we decided to proceed, that way I could verify warranty information. This is when I basically decided what the hell am I doing? On a list, trying to get a company to take my money? Being pushed all kinds of other garbage or getting told I can buy what I want at 60-80% markups? It's just insanity.l »

Not exactly an unfounded complaint, or a sense of entitlement.

[bluestreak]

Originally Posted by Watchman001

Guess some people missed this part of the OP:

« One individual flat and told me his pieces are from an AD but he sells them and splits the profits with the AD, he offered to show me the warranty cards and the information on all the pieces as well as letting me contact the AD if we decided to proceed, that way I could verify warranty information. This is when I basically decided what the hell am I doing? On a list, trying to get a company to take my money? Being pushed all kinds of other garbage or getting told I can buy what I want at 60-80% markups? It's just insanity.l »

Not exactly an unfounded complaint, or a sense of entitlement.

I find it difficult to believe an AD is going to field questions about a watch sold by a reseller.


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[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by bluestreak

I find it difficult to believe an AD is going to field questions about a watch sold by a reseller.


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I wondered the same thing, I didn't walk it down the aisle that far, didn't have time, wasn't going to go grey, but it did piss me off.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Watchman001

Guess some people missed this part of the OP:

« One individual flat and told me his pieces are from an AD but he sells them and splits the profits with the AD, he offered to show me the warranty cards and the information on all the pieces as well as letting me contact the AD if we decided to proceed, that way I could verify warranty information. This is when I basically decided what the hell am I doing? On a list, trying to get a company to take my money? Being pushed all kinds of other garbage or getting told I can buy what I want at 60-80% markups? It's just insanity.l »

Not exactly an unfounded complaint, or a sense of entitlement.

I don't have a sense of entitlement, I just ignore the people that can't read or make dumb assumptions. I simply want to be treated fairly when buying a luxury good. Rolex needs to tamp down on this BS.

[Zach69SS]

They all do it now, all the major brands, the bundles and offerings of something you don’t want to get what you want, if you get it? To me it’s stupid take care of the customer and sell them what they want if available or with a reasonable wait. Then as they become a customer most people with buy other things later especially a watch enthusiast, with customers you never know? Start a history with a new client it may work for both.

The wait list thing is total BS and is on its way out. The market has changed and the demand is not there anymore with some exceptions, Daytona SS, Pepsi and a few others.
I see big trouble for the PM pieces they will have to discount them or bundle them somehow.

[the dark knight]

Originally Posted by Zach69SS

They all do it now, all the major brands, the bundles and offerings of something you don’t want to get what you want, if you get it? To me it’s stupid take care of the customer and sell them what they want if available or with a reasonable wait. Then as they become a customer most people with buy other things later especially a watch enthusiast, with customers you never know? Start a history with a new client it may work for both.

The wait list thing is total BS and is on its way out. The market has changed and the demand is not there anymore with some exceptions, Daytona SS, Pepsi and a few others.
I see big trouble for the PM pieces they will have to discount them or bundle them somehow.

I was speculating on another thread they are probably already bundling out PMs to grey market dealers and packaging steel sports, one reason why despite the market downturn it's still so hard to get steel sports at the AD.

[fwedb]

I have been on a "waitlist" for a white Explorer II for ~ 4-5 months, my first Rolex.
I understand the law of supply and demand and I didn't expect to get one right away. I visited 3x ADs recently, and all 3 haven't received any Explorer II in the past few months. I don't know if it's true and if Rolex is still making them for the US market. I don't know if I'm considered as a serious customer and if it can take years for a "basic", non returning customer like me, to get one. Lots of unknowns, and this is what makes this experience very frustrating. Why can't they have a process where they do some background check (as they seem to do anyway), and later tell if / when they can get an allocation. Why does it need to be so random ? I feel a lack of respect.
I'm probably going to give up at this point.

[Torshalla]

The loval Omega boutique (WoS) openly ask for buying other watches to potentially be able to buy harder to get watches… something my Rolex AD does not… it is down to the actual individual dealers and not the brands…


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[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

IWC, Zenith and Omega (Omega is probably my personal favorite to begin with) have some great stuff. All of these great pieces are available right now, the dealers actually treat you like you matter and like you're a paying customer. They break open champaign when you buy a new piece, they call you a week or two later to see how you like it, etc, etc, etc.

Most importantly the Omega piece I found is absolutely stunning and I know the place I normally buy my watches from will do it for a certain price. If they match it here I might do it to commemorate the trip with the family and my career milestone. I'd never seen it in person before this week but wow it's a looker.

Rolex make great watches, they are highly sought after and although a million plus new Rolex watches come onto the market each year it is not enough to satisfy the demand.

What you have found is that there are other companies out there who make brilliant watches as well, in many respects they are the equal or better of Rolex, I particularly like the Omega Planet Ocean line up and have my eye on one to add to my collection.

Whilst IWC, Zenith, Omega and others have top quality watches they do not have the pull that owning a Rolex brings, as a result the watches are often more readily available.

I am more than happy with my Omega watches I certainly don't feel as though they are less of a watch because they're not a Rolex.

[KatGirl]

Originally Posted by Oxfordian

Rolex make great watches, they are highly sought after and although a million plus new Rolex watches come onto the market each year it is not enough to satisfy the demand.

What you have found is that there are other companies out there who make brilliant watches as well, in many respects they are the equal or better of Rolex, I particularly like the Omega Planet Ocean line up and have my eye on one to add to my collection.

Whilst IWC, Zenith, Omega and others have top quality watches they do not have the pull that owning a Rolex brings, as a result the watches are often more readily available.

I am more than happy with my Omega watches I certainly don't feel as though they are less of a watch because they're not a Rolex.

Ahh, but so many people DO and therein lies the problem!

Kat


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[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by KatGirl

Ahh, but so many people DO and therein lies the problem!

Kat


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Absolutely right, it's a vicious circle, if we can take the blinkers off we might just see that there are other brands out there making some superb watches.

I'm lucky I have the watches I want, its a mix of brands and styles, however I am always keeping my eyes open to see what else is around but I'm not getting hung up on a particular watch from a certain brand.

[Stan Cooper]

There are a couple of reasonable Rolex alternatives to a new 126710 GMT-Master II from an AD that you can buy now.

1) Gently used 16710 GMT-Master II from one of the TRF trusted sellers. This is a reliable and versatile reference with the bulletproof 3185 or 3186 caliber movement and ability to easily swap bezel inserts and bracelets.

2) Gently used Explorer II model with 3185 or later caliber movement ("jump hour hand" to easily change time zones while traveling without hacking the movement).

[IGY]

Originally Posted by Stan Cooper

There are a couple of reasonable Rolex alternatives to a new 126710 GMT-Master II from an AD that you can buy now.

1) Gently used 16710 GMT-Master II from one of the TRF trusted sellers. This is a reliable and versatile reference with the bulletproof 3185 or 3186 caliber movement and ability to easily swap bezel inserts and bracelets.

2) Gently used Explorer II model with 3185 or later caliber movement ("jump hour hand" to easily change time zones while traveling without hacking the movement).

I'd be shopping for an excellent condition, pre-owned 5524G or a Tonda PF GMT Rattrapante rather than burn money to pay a grey premium for a GMT-II. Maybe a dual time Overseas if your wrists are large enough. If you can't negotiate discounts on any of these watches, then you can likely find good used examples at discounts to RRP.

[fwedb]

I have been on a "waitlist" for a white Explorer II for ~ 5 months, would be my first Rolex. I also added the latest GMT II Wayne in my account, with no hope to get anytime soon.
I understand the law of supply and demand and I didn't expect to get one right away. I visited 3x ADs recently, and all 3 haven't received any Explorer II in the past few months. I don't know if it's true and if Rolex is still making them for the US market. I don't know if I'm considered as a serious customer and if it can take years for a "basic", non returning customer like me, to get one. Lots of unknowns, and this is what makes this experience very frustrating. Why can't they have a process where they do some background check on the customer (as they seem to do anyway). And then tell later if / when they can get an allocation. Why does it need to be so random ? I feel a lack of respect.
I'm probably going to give up (and get a Zenith Chronomaster sport or white speedy)

[rolexpatek363]

Ten years ago I would have agreed with you - far too thick. Things have moved on, and you should have a look at both the Elegance and Evolution 9 ranges. The Zaratsu polishing on the cases, and the dials, dial furniture, hands and movements are stunning, and the watches are now slim and elegant.

I'm very interested in the Birch Bark, which is coming out next month. Titanium, hand wind, hi-beat and 39mm x 10mm. The movement contains a horological advance in the escapement...

https://www.grand-seiko.com/uk-en/collections/slgw003g

[garyk]

Guess I cannot get beyond my favorite Seiko watches I have and pony up the thousands for the name Grand Seiko. I have seen the quality but not for me.

[alllexandru]

never mind I was about to make a long post but it will be in vain like all other post regarding the subject

My wife promised me a Rolex for 50 years anniversary, she doesn't understand the market and all AD bul..s.it, started to save for next year when is the milestone age, I feel like she will be very disappointed when she will go to AD to receive all the lies and what she need to do IF the mighty AD God will allow her to buy.

I decided to let her know explaining why is not worth it.

Bottom line for a normal person (not everyone is a milionare to overspend on shitty jewellery or watches you don't want to supposedly be in line) this hobby it is killed, there is no fun no joy no nothing, regarding Rolex but not only.

Cheers!

[Neil McCauley]

Originally Posted by alllexandru

Bottom line for a normal person (not everyone is a milionare to overspend on shitty jewellery or watches you don't want to supposedly be in line) this hobby it is killed, there is no fun no joy no nothing, regarding Rolex but not only.

Cheers!

Absolute nonsense. Why even bother wasting your time to post this.

I'm a normal person, as are 99.9% of people on here. I haven't bought anything I didn't want, and I get plenty of fun and joy from this hobby.

Perhaps if you didn't look so negatively on things like that, you might have a better time.

[KatGirl]

Originally Posted by Neil McCauley

Absolute nonsense. Why even bother wasting your time to post this.

I'm a normal person, as are 99.9% of people on here. I haven't bought anything I didn't want, and I get plenty of fun and joy from this hobby.

Perhaps if you didn't look so negatively on things like that, you might have a better time.

I have to agree with Neal. I am far from wealthy, and have 2 brand new Rolexes from my AD, without buying anything else I didn’t need or want. My AD doesn’t play those games. I expect a call about a third one soon. Granted, I did not ask for a Pepsi or a Daytona, so it’s a little easier to get what I want, but still takes some initiative and patience. The key is to find the right AD, which in my case is Devons in Stockton, CA.


Kat


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[hd-bagger]

[QUOTE=KatGirl;13342876]I have to agree with Neal. I am far from wealthy, and have 2 brand new Rolexes from my AD, without buying anything else I didn’t need or want. My AD doesn’t play those games. I expect a call about a third one soon. Granted, I did not ask for a Pepsi or a Daytona, so it’s a little easier to get what I want, but still takes some initiative and patience. The key is to find the right AD, which in my case is Devons in Stockton, CA.


Kat


Yep, I think it's all about finding the right AD. I was treated poorly from an AD when I got ready to purchase my first Rolex. I had no idea about how the market was. This was during the pandemic when everything apparently went crazy. It almost soured me to the brand.

On a whim, I stopped by a second AD while passing through the area. I was treated like an old friend. No games, no bs, and no gimmicks.

I've bought a sub date 41, datejust 36, tudor bb gmt, and a blnr master ii from this AD. I've also received several nice gifts, and haven't bought any jewelry. I will buy jewelry from them when the need arises though. Why would I take my business anywhere else? I'm also not on the list for anymore watches at the moment, i'm just a very satisfied customer and friend!!

Don't sour to the brand, sour to the retailer if you're treated poorly. There's plenty of great authorized dealers out there, you just haven't found one.

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by KatGirl

I have to agree with Neal. I am far from wealthy, and have 2 brand new Rolexes from my AD, without buying anything else I didn’t need or want. My AD doesn’t play those games. I expect a call about a third one soon. Granted, I did not ask for a Pepsi or a Daytona, so it’s a little easier to get what I want, but still takes some initiative and patience. The key is to find the right AD, which in my case is Devons in Stockton, CA.


Kat


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Same here, be realistic in what you want and it will come reasonably quickly.

I'm fairly sure that I would have been able to pick up a GMT by now from my old AD if I hadn't moved house, my new AD is optimistic that I will get a BLNR but not sure when. If I'm honest I'm not expecting one, I have only been a customer a matter of a few weeks so if it turns up great, its a stunning watch, if it doesn't then so be it, its not the end of the world, its just a watch.

[SS Oyster]

I’ve never heard of such prices. I was just in Phoenix at an AD who also sells CPO and even those shocking prices were way cheaper than OP said he was quoted.

Grey = DavidSW


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[alphadweller]

Haven't bought a Rolex since 2020. I thought things had improved of late, with so many incomings. Market seems to be cooling down.

[rockysw]

things are getting better. Yesterday for the first time I saw two tone watches available for sale (full gold were the first one in windows for sale). Some stainless steel model should be available in windows soon.

But I get your frustration. The current allocation process in my opinion is immoral and unethical.

[KatGirl]

Originally Posted by rockysw

things are getting better. Yesterday for the first time I saw two tone watches available for sale (full gold were the first one in windows for sale). Some stainless steel model should be available in windows soon.

But I get your frustration. The current allocation process in my opinion is immoral and unethical.

There is no one “allocation process”. Each AD uses their own criteria to decide who gets an allocation. What are you basing your “immoral and unethical” theory on?

Kat


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[WheresCassAt?]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Hi everyone, I guess I'm here to vent supreme frustrations with the whole "experience" of trying to buy a Rolex. I'm not definitely not the first with these issues but I guess it just kinda culminated into a crescendo this week and my frustrations have boiled over and finally reached the breaking point.

Been trying to get a GMT Master II for quite some time. Tried to get a Rolex 39mm Explorer locally the year I turned 40, that was a mess. I walked in about 9 months before my birthday, they had one on Display I knew sometimes there was a wait so I asked if it was available he said no, I asked to get on the list he said ok. He supposedly took down my phone number and my email. I followed up a few times and then it was discontinued.

I don't want a 36mm so I went into a holding pattern and just focused my efforts on a GMT. This guy never followed up, always wanted to show me Tag's, Nomos (I actually like Nomos) and a few others. I politely declined. Got on the list of the same stuff at another location because I was told even though it's the same dealer they treat each location independently.

So I got on the list for a 40mm Explorer when it was announced, as Rootbeer and a Batman. Every time I'm in I get asked to buy something I don't want, I get told it's the fastest way to "Move up the list". So I had a buddy make an introduction to the AD he uses a few hundred miles away. In short order (6 weeks) I had my 40mm Explorer. That was a good experience but the AD is quite small. Their number of display pieces is between 8 and 12 every time I'm in there, it's a tiny shop. But they're great to deal with. Needless to say I also asked about the Rootbeer and Batman.

I've since hit another career milestone that I planned to celebrate with a watch, the reason I got on the list for the Rootbeer! Needless to say no Rootbeer obviously.

This week on vacation we've visited a couple of Rolex ADs along with numerous other jewelers and watch shops. I've found several Rootbeers, Batman's and Pepsi's for sale. On a couple of occasions I've walked it down the aisle to see/gather information. The cheapest Rootbeer was $26,800, most of them were right around 30k. All the Pepsi's regardless of shop were $30k for the modern rendition, I did find a 10-12 year old piece that was 22k. The Batman's were 21-23k. One individual flat and told me his pieces are from an AD but he sells them and splits the profits with the AD, he offered to show me the warranty cards and the information on all the pieces as well as letting me contact the AD if we decided to proceed, that way I could verify warranty information. This is when I basically decided what the hell am I doing? On a list, trying to get a company to take my money? Being pushed all kinds of other garbage or getting told I can buy what I want at 60-80% markups? It's just insanity.


In the meantime I've found several pieces that I love, IWC, Zenith and Omega (Omega is probably my personal favorite to begin with) have some great stuff. All of these great pieces are available right now, the dealers actually treat you like you matter and like you're a paying customer. They break open champaign when you buy a new piece, they call you a week or two later to see how you like it, etc, etc, etc.

Most importantly the Omega piece I found is absolutely stunning and I know the place I normally buy my watches from will do it for a certain price. If they match it here I might do it to commemorate the trip with the family and my career milestone. I'd never seen it in person before this week but wow it's a looker.

Rolex needs to wake up, I know for a fact I'm not the only one that feels this way and they're turning off an entire generation of affluent buyers who value their own time and personal likes/dislikes and don't want to deal with bullshit. The watch company that's done a great job building a brand and building some timeless pieces along the way needs to get their AD network under control.

If you're interested in other watch brands find an AD that sells said watch brands as well as Rolex. Like they mentioned you'll move up the list much quicker. You can go as far as saying "i'll buy this if you sell me *insert Rolex*"

[Zach69SS]

I would not go as far as saying unethical, but definitely not a good representation of the Rolex brand. I understand that when there are 50 watches and 200 hundred customers it’s a problem. However you should not have to buy this to get that or move up some imaginary list?

Most brands are doing this even at their own boutiques. Very sad in my opinion. This has happened to me recently with brands other than Rolex. I was told this my face and my reply was fine, I will a purchase of both, do you have both in stock? Because I’m not going to buy one without the other! Or I will get it for you later deal?

I would never play that game with any brand especially on something so expensive.

I remember when you went to a jewelry store and purchased what you wanted period.
A real shame things are what they are now. There is hope with the good ADs out there, who care and are willing to earn the customers business.

With all the recent reports on how slow market conditions are things will have to change build the relationship with the customer first and then see what happens. I would respond very well to approach and think of the business the next time I’m looking for a watch or jewelry.