the "Ask a Grey" thread

[EE33]

Originally Posted by Mosco

BUY THE SELLER, and you will be fine.

Hi Greg, great thread and thanks for posting it.
I've followed the above quote in purchasing watches in the past and havn't had any problems, only joy.

I did however read recently that a couple of what I thought were long time trusted sellers got banned here on TRF. One of the banning I could sort of understand, but the other I couldn't find any history on.

It's sad and unfortunate when there is a dispute between the buyer and seller and it spills out onto the open forum........maybe we need a referee/mediator to help out in these cases.
Just my thoughts.

[ghotihead2001]

I'm not sure if this has been asked but, what if any is the downside of buying from a grey dealer vs. an AD?

Are are there issues with making a warranty claim if my name is not on the documentation?

[emagni]

Thanks Greg! Great thread and is long over due :-)

[Runnin' Rebel]

Really a sweet thread !

[Runnin' Rebel]

Greg, I have a question I didn't see asked. Whose idea was it to start this thread. Did you consult the other great sellers here for their feed back on this idea cause there is some pretty good 411 on here. I'm just curious, if everyone was on board.

If its more or less classified answer, it's ok not to answer, I would understand.

Thanks again
Mark

[mltworldwide]

and thanks for the info. What do you think about taking an educated risk on a trade in? Chance for a big reward or chance to take a loss? I'm thinking of very rare watches that have very little sales history. Would you stay away or not? Also, what about vintage Rolex? With so many variables do you try to figure a worst case value?

[MrPhatKatt]

Love this thread plus I joined after I bought a Ball from you(love that watch), and figured out this is the forum for me. Didn't really know you like I should but I lucked out. Found out the great references you have earned over the years. So again know the seller not the watch is ingrained in me. Thanks Greg for sharing the wealth of info and the TRF for their help. I've been intrigued by the anti-magnetics, they seem to have a functionality about them and I want a IWC next got any ideas?

[ft laud mike]

Thank you for the thread, It has answered many questions i have had.
Will you be attending the Miami IWJG show in Nov?
Pm sent,
Thank you
mike

[Porsche]

Thanks for the thread Greg - just goes to show how open and transparent you are (and to those who are trying to work out income... think about the huge $$$ tied up in inventory at any one time, and also the risks involved? What kind of return would you want?)

A couple of dumb comments/questions...

1. I assume some low-lifes always trying to find an angle to scam you on - and you would be up-to-date on techniques to minimising risks? How often does this happen?

2. How reliable is the courier/postage system? Do you factor in "x" number of pieces going missing every year? or is there always an insurance policy in place?

3. Do you only deal in late-model watches? Or do you also sell older watches (I don't mean vintage), which may have had a hard life, maybe have service parts or in need of service etc?

Thanks again

[kilyung]

Great thread Greg! I'm assuming you've gathered some really interesting statistics on most requested/sold models. Can you share your top five?

[Naya72]

Another great thread Greg...
Any experience where you sold the watch and felt sorry because you wanted to keep it yourself?

[Kaylesdad]

Great thread thanks for starting it Greg

[swatty]

Nice thread Greg , thanks for starting it

[Sub Par]

I have a question if you don't mind Sir;

When you handle so many high-end pieces so often, do you become blase about them?. By that I mean, someone who works in a bank must surely get no excitement from holding a brick of $100 bills after a while so do you check out something you've just sourced like a BNIB President and go "meh", or do you still go "whoa that's nice"!...

[77T]

Originally Posted by Mosco

The inevitable began, with people looking for ulterior motives for me starting the thread. Just been accused (in private) of 'shilling' for my Ball inventory by the post I made earlier. Please let me assure, it isn't so.

The notions that I stock few pieces of this brand and stating that it is a stellar product are related, naturally. I want to sell watches, not take on a servicing nightmare. It's just logic.

And I thought it was just a way to boost your post count!!!

BTW, I am one of Greg's happy new Ball owners - it has become the default daily wristwatch. Rotate it with my Root Beer and Bluesy and very happy with its accuracy and bright night lume from the Tritium tubes!

...did I get all that right Greg?


Keep up the answers -

[The GMT Master]

Great idea Greg, I think this will benefit a lot of folks - I hope you have as much success with this thread as I did with mine

[Megalobyte]

Originally Posted by Mosco

Maybe because of the boutiques, maybe because of the multitude of the new models which are 'singing' to collectors. Only time will tell....


Naturally, trades amongst dealers take place, that is the whole premise behind IWJG shows. However, the items we stock are usually the ones we have general clientele for. Personally, I try not to deviate from my niche too much.



That's a trade secret, although I will tell you that our margins are typically very low, in the single digits. The primary focus is not 'profit from individual sale', but rather volume.

Up to $9? That IS low! :)

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by EE33

Hi Greg, great thread and thanks for posting it.
I've followed the above quote in purchasing watches in the past and havn't had any problems, only joy.

I did however read recently that a couple of what I thought were long time trusted sellers got banned here on TRF. One of the banning I could sort of understand, but the other I couldn't find any history on.

It's sad and unfortunate when there is a dispute between the buyer and seller and it spills out onto the open forum........maybe we need a referee/mediator to help out in these cases.
Just my thoughts.

You know, I thought the same thing. Maybe a board of 5-7 people to mediate minor disputes. Not a bad idea at all.

Originally Posted by ghotihead2001

Are are there issues with making a warranty claim if my name is not on the documentation?

As long as the watch is under warranty, no.

Originally Posted by emagni

Thanks Greg! Great thread and is long over due :-)

Originally Posted by JAGERVEGAS

Really a sweet thread !

Thanks dudes!

Originally Posted by JAGERVEGAS

Greg, I have a question I didn't see asked. Whose idea was it to start this thread. Did you consult the other great sellers here for their feed back on this idea cause there is some pretty good 411 on here. I'm just curious, if everyone was on board.

If its more or less classified answer, it's ok not to answer, I would understand.

Thanks again
Mark

Mark, I didn't consult anyone, maybe I should have... I learned in the past that if you want something done, just go for it - and if people are 'with it', they'll jump on board. If not - no sweat either.

Originally Posted by drster

and thanks for the info. What do you think about taking an educated risk on a trade in? Chance for a big reward or chance to take a loss? I'm thinking of very rare watches that have very little sales history. Would you stay away or not? Also, what about vintage Rolex? With so many variables do you try to figure a worst case value?

We as dealers have to take educated risks on trades all the time. If I am not knowledgeable on any given watch, I bounce my question off someone who may be more knowledgeable about it. Oscar and I, for instance, pick each other's brains all the time about possible trades. And of course, there is always risk for loss, but our job as self-proprietors is to minimize it.

Vintage is really not my forte' - I'd check with Anastasios (Tempoking), Nick (Greekbum) or Jacek. Those guys are a wealth of knowledge. Whenever I am offered a vintage Rolex, I defer to few others. One can't possibly know everything in this business

Originally Posted by MrPhatKatt

Love this thread plus I joined after I bought a Ball from you(love that watch), and figured out this is the forum for me. Didn't really know you like I should but I lucked out. Found out the great references you have earned over the years. So again know the seller not the watch is ingrained in me. Thanks Greg for sharing the wealth of info and the TRF for their help. I've been intrigued by the anti-magnetics, they seem to have a functionality about them and I want a IWC next got any ideas?

Thanks my friend
Any Ingenieur or Pilot's IWC is anti-magnetic to my knowledge, so your options are wide. Just decide what functions you prefer and what size suits you best, and go from there!

Originally Posted by ft laud mike

Thank you for the thread, It has answered many questions i have had.
Will you be attending the Miami IWJG show in Nov?
Pm sent,
Thank you
mike

Mike, my pleasure! Miami - too far in advance to tell, but knowing the weather in Ohio in November, I'll be itching to skip out to a warmer climate for a few days :)

Originally Posted by Porsche

Thanks for the thread Greg - just goes to show how open and transparent you are (and to those who are trying to work out income... think about the huge $$$ tied up in inventory at any one time, and also the risks involved? What kind of return would you want?)

A couple of dumb comments/questions...

1. I assume some low-lifes always trying to find an angle to scam you on - and you would be up-to-date on techniques to minimising risks? How often does this happen?

2. How reliable is the courier/postage system? Do you factor in "x" number of pieces going missing every year? or is there always an insurance policy in place?

3. Do you only deal in late-model watches? Or do you also sell older watches (I don't mean vintage), which may have had a hard life, maybe have service parts or in need of service etc?

Thanks again

Thanks for the kind words, John! And to those who want to figure out the income - tough s**t, it's a trade secret . One thing I will tell you is that you take out as much as you put in it. If someone thinks they can get rich 'flipping' a couple watches on their spare time, they're smoking. On to the questions:

1) Use logic. If someone is too 'eager' for you to ship, if something doesn't jive - move on. Odds are, it'll be the best decision you have made. With all the modern means to defraud, only true way to minimize your own risk is to use your head. I'll cite a couple examples in a bit. Those take a bit of typing, and I haven't had my first cup of coffee yet

2) I use FedEx and so far, there have only been one instance of a loss. Insure through Parcel Pro or Jewel Systems, and lower your risk (but heighten expenses - never one without the other )

3) Typically, I stick to more recent models as I don't want to inherit a servicing nightmare.... But that's just me.

Originally Posted by kilyung

Great thread Greg! I'm assuming you've gathered some really interesting statistics on most requested/sold models. Can you share your top five?

Top five change all the time, but the most sold watch in my company's history is a Stainless Steel Rolex Submariner. It's as liquid as any asset I have ever come across. Close second is the IWC Portuguese line, followed by JLC Master Compressor line.

Originally Posted by Naya72

Another great thread Greg...
Any experience where you sold the watch and felt sorry because you wanted to keep it yourself?

With the exception of a one-of-a-kind Blancpain 500 Fathoms (Only Watch made for the Monaco auction), I don't get overly attached to inventory. Otherwise my business would be even more difficult as it already is. Plus, I don't wear watches I intend to sell. Have my 2 wearers - and that's all.

Originally Posted by Kaylesdad

Great thread thanks for starting it Greg

Originally Posted by swatty

Nice thread Greg , thanks for starting it

Thanks guys!

Originally Posted by Sub Par

I have a question if you don't mind Sir;

When you handle so many high-end pieces so often, do you become blase about them?. By that I mean, someone who works in a bank must surely get no excitement from holding a brick of $100 bills after a while so do you check out something you've just sourced like a BNIB President and go "meh", or do you still go "whoa that's nice"!...

I still get butterflies - this business never gets old. It's like seeing new art, or an exciting ride.

Originally Posted by 77T

And I thought it was just a way to boost your post count!!!

BTW, I am one of Greg's happy new Ball owners - it has become the default daily wristwatch. Rotate it with my Root Beer and Bluesy and very happy with its accuracy and bright night lume from the Tritium tubes!

...did I get all that right Greg?


Keep up the answers -

Thanks my friend

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

Great idea Greg, I think this will benefit a lot of folks - I hope you have as much success with this thread as I did with mine

Thanks Buddy Chris! Best of luck in your future endeavors

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by Megalobyte

Up to $9? That IS low! :)

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by Mosco

The primary focus is not 'profit from individual sale', but rather volume.

this reminded me of that old SNL skit from the '80s for "First Citiwide Change Bank II":




Citiwide banker: A lot of people don't realize that change is a two-way street. You can come in with sixteen quarters, eight dimes, and four nickels - we can give you a five-dollar bill. Or we can give you five singles. Or two singles, eight quarters, and ten dimes. You'd be amazed at the variety of the options you have.

Customer #3: I was driving through Pennsylvania on the tollway, and to save time I was using the exact-change lanes. I had just run out of quarters, and I was getting a bit nervous when I spotted a sign for a Citiwide branch at the next exit. Let me tell you, it was a pretty good feeling.

Citiwide banker: I have had people come in with wrinkled ten-dollar bills to exchange for new crisp bills to put in birthday cards. We can handle special requests like that, usually in the same day.

Customer #4: I'd just returned from a business trip to London, and all the cash I had was a five-pound note. Citiwide wasn't able to convert it to dollars, but they did give me four guineas, two crowns, four shillings, and ten pence.

Citiwide banker: All the time, our customers ask us, "How do you make money doing this?" The answer is simple: Volume. That's what we do.

[Megalobyte]

Thanks for the thread Greg.

I have one question, hope it's not a delicate one.

It's regarding warranties.

Personally I only buy a watch with a warranty card that's stamped, named and dated. In my lay person's opinion, it's the only way I can be certain of no potential warranty issues. I do realize with someone else's name, for Rolex, Dallas is the better choice.

So, regarding warranty work. What are the implications and risks of papers that are missing info, name, date, stamp, etc. ?

And WRT Rolex, my understanding is that Rolex can to some extent track the original sale, so while open, or semi-open papers might be ok for some brands, for Rolex, the warranty really needs to have been fully filled in.

I'm wary of buying a watch with open papers, is there info you can offer to alleviate some of those fears?

I get nervous when I see an ad that says: "Your name and purchase date on papers." Am I wrong?

Thanks!

[gimpex]

One question.

Any plans to move to Europe ? We need one such seller this side !

Great thread by the way.

[Rags]

Great thread Greg, I for one always wondered about some of the questions that have been answered on threads like this & the one from GMTII master.. Thanks for bringing some insight to grey dealers. BTW you are a class act sir.

[Trewth]

Love the Thread Greg!, and although I did purchase my first watch from a TRF dealer already, I am now way more informed on my second.... Tony...getting itchy..LOL

[joeychitwood]

Greg, I assume that personal security must be a concern when receiving shipments or transporting expensive watches given the number of transactions you conduct. I won't ask you about your measures, but have you ever had a close call related to your profession?

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by Megalobyte

So, regarding warranty work. What are the implications and risks of papers that are missing info, name, date, stamp, etc. ?

And WRT Rolex, my understanding is that Rolex can to some extent track the original sale, so while open, or semi-open papers might be ok for some brands, for Rolex, the warranty really needs to have been fully filled in.

I'm wary of buying a watch with open papers, is there info you can offer to alleviate some of those fears?

I get nervous when I see an ad that says: "Your name and purchase date on papers." Am I wrong?

Thanks!

Shouldn't be nervous about those, as that means that the watch is coming right from AD and your name will be officially placed on the docs. As far as some fields left open, only one I would concern myself with is the dealer stamp. You definitely want that. Name is unimportant for the most part, and date can be filled in. Watch warranties, for now at least, aren't an exact science like auto warranty for instance.

Originally Posted by gimpex

One question.

Any plans to move to Europe ? We need one such seller this side !

Great thread by the way.

Thanks
No plans to relocate yet - but if taxes get lowered there - who knows :)

Originally Posted by Rags

Great thread Greg, I for one always wondered about some of the questions that have been answered on threads like this & the one from GMTII master.. Thanks for bringing some insight to grey dealers. BTW you are a class act sir.

Many Thanks

Originally Posted by Trewth

Love the Thread Greg!, and although I did purchase my first watch from a TRF dealer already, I am now way more informed on my second.... Tony...getting itchy..LOL

Tony is a class act, congrats on your first (and impeding second) Rolex purchase :)

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

Greg, I assume that personal security must be a concern when receiving shipments or transporting expensive watches given the number of transactions you conduct. I won't ask you about your measures, but have you ever had a close call related to your profession?

Yes, I have, but my stapler was handy

[ralpie]

Greg, do you have employees or are you able to handle everything on your own? Seems like the buying is the most time consuming part of your business and I'd think you'd want to do that yourself.

[zeuloa]

Another question Greg: I assume your inventory is rather large at any given time - where do you keep all the boxes?

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by ralpie

Greg, do you have employees or are you able to handle everything on your own? Seems like the buying is the most time consuming part of your business and I'd think you'd want to do that yourself.

I have an assistant, but most of the stuff is handled by me, which I don't mind. At least this way if something is done wrong, I have noone else to blame.

Originally Posted by zeuloa

Another question Greg: I assume your inventory is rather large at any given time - where do you keep all the boxes?

I do have a shop with plenty of room for storage.