Why is buying a car so hard/insulting?

[Desibaba]

Originally Posted by Knappo 1307

Interesting wordage, coming from a current car salesman. You could see why some are less than thrilled with the whole car buying merry-go-round.....

Its like any other business that's there to make money. If you don't like negotiating on your trade, new car or APR then go to CarMax. The problem is 9 times out of 10 you WILL pay more there. CarMax is selling used 2015 Lexus models with 10-20k miles for more than what I could sell you a brand new 2016 Lexus for.

[mfer]

I think this is the most popular thread I have ever made!......and it isn't watch related :-/

[jcd]

I've read through this whole thread with interest. You see I'm in the market for a new pick-up. I'd like to order one. I've researched the product and driven the trucks and I know what I'd like and how I want it equipped. I guess what my question is, with all these references to "research" that people make, on what sites are you doing that pricing research? Google shows me a lot of sites that don't seem real helpful. I just want to see prices I should expect to pay for a vehicle equipped like I'd like. Edmunds and True Car want an email address and I'm a little leery of giving them that. Maybe I shouldn't be?

So, like I said, I've searched, but I'm just wondering what sites provided useful info to people in an easy to use fashion, based upon your experiences anyway. Any recommendations? I just want to walk in and say I would like this truck at this price (I don't have a trade).

I hope asking that isn't derailing this thread, but it seems to be all over the place already anyway.....

[SMD]

There sure a lot of straw men that have taken a pounding on this thread.

[swils8610]

Give TrueCar your email address. They generally have accurate pricing.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by jcd

I've read through this whole thread with interest. You see I'm in the market for a new pick-up. I'd like to order one. I've researched the product and driven the trucks and I know what I'd like and how I want it equipped. I guess what my question is, with all these references to "research" that people make, on what sites are you doing that pricing research? Google shows me a lot of sites that don't seem real helpful. I just want to see prices I should expect to pay for a vehicle equipped like I'd like. Edmunds and True Car want an email address and I'm a little leery of giving them that. Maybe I shouldn't be?

So, like I said, I've searched, but I'm just wondering what sites provided useful info to people in an easy to use fashion, based upon your experiences anyway. Any recommendations? I just want to walk in and say I would like this truck at this price (I don't have a trade).

I hope asking that isn't derailing this thread, but it seems to be all over the place already anyway.....

Set up a disposable email on Hotmail for this purpose. Don't pay for an account, don't populate personal data on the account, just get the free junk account. Refer all your shopping research to this email. Once you've purchased the truck, walkaway from it (it will be junk mail heaven).

[daunwaun]

So seriously, who buys a car without driving it first. All these people on here...yeah, I just pick up the phone order it and have it delivered. I guess if you have millions in disposable income you can buy a car, hate it and get rid of it.

Are most dealerships into selling games...sure. Walk away if you don't feel comfortable...its that simple.

Take 30 min, research and go from there.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by daunwaun

So seriously, who buys a car without driving it first. All these people on here...yeah, I just pick up the phone order it and have it delivered. I guess if you have millions in disposable income you can buy a car, hate it and get rid of it.

Are most dealerships into selling games...sure. Walk away if you don't feel comfortable...its that simple.

Take 30 min, research and go from there.

My car wasn't available for test drive near me as it had just been released and was in very short supply due to some crappy forecasting on BMWs end. It didn't really matter because if you drive enough from one brand you generally know what you're getting.

[Desibaba]

Buying a new car is extremely easy if you use truecar.com. You need to remember that when your friend/neighbor/coworker tells you that he is driving that $100k car for zero down and $500 a month its possible he is LYING because he is trying to impress you that he is so smart and he can get a deal that no one else can. The best example of that happened to me yesterday. Customer A walks in the store and tells me his friend "Joe Shmoe" got a new 2016 Lexus GS for zero down and $375 a month from us last week and he wants the exact same deal.

I said no problem we will give him the same deal but I will need to call his buddy Joe Shmoe to make sure he is okay with disclosing the details of his transaction to this guy. We call Joe and Joe said he doesn't mind us telling his friend what he paid for the car, etc. I pulled up the exact pricing sheet from the computer and it turns out the customer had actually put $3k down and was paying $475 a month and yes we will honor the deal. He did end up taking the car home.

Buyers are liars. Until I got in the car business I used to think the dealers were shady and crooks. Now I realize the customers are a lot worse than we are. Most dealers these days offer a 3 or 5 day return policy. If you really think your deal was so bad then return the car and go elsewhere.

[subtona]

I have had poor experience dealing in nyc and neighboring parts, they are always given first opportunity but have not had the interest to do the right thing.

My experience has been much better elsewhere, of 10 new purchases:


I have purchased 2 in nyc area (different dealers), I would prefer to have a single mutually beneficial relationship, each were given the opportunity for additional sales and were grossly offensive regarding their difficult negotiation practices.


I have purchased 8 new vehicles between South Carolina (4) & Albany (3) and Upstate NY (1) And I was a repeat customer with each of them. 1 dealer closed and the other two were driven by availability at the time of purchase.

My long distance purchases have been negotiated over the phone or same day walk in drive out when I was in the area.

price is the first conversation (service is a whole entirely different discussion) I am not interested in squeezing the last nickle out of the dealer but the conversation has to be considerate of both sides of the sale or I walk quick.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Desibaba

Buyers are liars. Until I got in the car business I used to think the dealers were shady and crooks. Now I realize the customers are a lot worse than we are. Most dealers these days offer a 3 or 5 day return policy. If you really think your deal was so bad then return the car and go elsewhere.

Buyers are often sucked in by false advertising, tricks, deception and they are taken advantage of at numerous turns of the deal.

I am not buying your statement nor a car from you.

[wantonebad]

Originally Posted by Desibaba

Buying a new car is extremely easy if you use truecar.com. You need to remember that when your friend/neighbor/coworker tells you that he is driving that $100k car for zero down and $500 a month its possible he is LYING because he is trying to impress you that he is so smart and he can get a deal that no one else can. The best example of that happened to me yesterday. Customer A walks in the store and tells me his friend "Joe Shmoe" got a new 2016 Lexus GS for zero down and $375 a month from us last week and he wants the exact same deal.

I said no problem we will give him the same deal but I will need to call his buddy Joe Shmoe to make sure he is okay with disclosing the details of his transaction to this guy. We call Joe and Joe said he doesn't mind us telling his friend what he paid for the car, etc. I pulled up the exact pricing sheet from the computer and it turns out the customer had actually put $3k down and was paying $475 a month and yes we will honor the deal. He did end up taking the car home.

Buyers are liars. Until I got in the car business I used to think the dealers were shady and crooks. Now I realize the customers are a lot worse than we are. Most dealers these days offer a 3 or 5 day return policy. If you really think your deal was so bad then return the car and go elsewhere.

People lie, no doubt about it but the mere suggestion that customers are the deceitful ones in this process dismisses your credibility with me out of hand. That's not the norm and the suggestion that it is will devolve this discussion even further.

Originally Posted by subtona

Buyers are sucked in by false advertising, tricks, deception and they are taken advantage of at numerous turns of the deal.

I am not buying your statement nor a car from you.

Well said Gus!

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by daunwaun

So seriously, who buys a car without driving it first. All these people on here...yeah, I just pick up the phone order it and have it delivered. I guess if you have millions in disposable income you can buy a car, hate it and get rid of it.

Are most dealerships into selling games...sure. Walk away if you don't feel comfortable...its that simple.

Take 30 min, research and go from there.

I bought the last three without driving them, and still have all three. I've kept them 13 years, 8 years, and two years. If you know what you want, you don't need to go sit in it to know you still like it. And, you don't need to pay the overheads of a middleman for the privilege of a test drive. If you really HAVE to drive it, rent one for a day and see if it works for you.

[rozyd]

Originally Posted by Desibaba

Buying a new car is extremely easy if you use truecar.com. You need to remember that when your friend/neighbor/coworker tells you that he is driving that $100k car for zero down and $500 a month its possible he is LYING because he is trying to impress you that he is so smart and he can get a deal that no one else can. The best example of that happened to me yesterday. Customer A walks in the store and tells me his friend "Joe Shmoe" got a new 2016 Lexus GS for zero down and $375 a month from us last week and he wants the exact same deal.

I said no problem we will give him the same deal but I will need to call his buddy Joe Shmoe to make sure he is okay with disclosing the details of his transaction to this guy. We call Joe and Joe said he doesn't mind us telling his friend what he paid for the car, etc. I pulled up the exact pricing sheet from the computer and it turns out the customer had actually put $3k down and was paying $475 a month and yes we will honor the deal. He did end up taking the car home.

Buyers are liars. Until I got in the car business I used to think the dealers were shady and crooks. Now I realize the customers are a lot worse than we are. Most dealers these days offer a 3 or 5 day return policy. If you really think your deal was so bad then return the car and go elsewhere.

Originally Posted by subtona

Buyers are often sucked in by false advertising, tricks, deception and they are taken advantage of at numerous turns of the deal.

I am not buying your statement nor a car from you.

I wholeheartedly agree. Hopefully Desibaba your dismissive tone about your customers doesn't come across in real life.

[uscmatt99]

For my most recent purchase I test drove a car similarly equipped to what I wanted at two dealerships, had a face to face with one salesperson at each. After that, I made it known that I intended to custom order my vehicle and asked for the best price from each. Then I just went back and forth with each one by email until neither would budge further, and determined that was probably the fair price in my area.

I checked against prices that people across the country paid for on some enthusiast message boards similar to TRF. Several paid less than me, and I suspect most paid similar or more, but nobody wants to broadcast their less than stellar deal, only the best deals. Same with quarter mile times after mods/tunes and such. That and it depends on how far out you extend your search, for me having a local dealer I bought from that would give me loaners during servicing, free winter wheel storage, etc. made a difference.

In the end I got mine for 5% under MSRP, the best I saw were 7-9%, but often that was for vehicles sitting on the lot, didn't have some options I thought were critical to my purchase, or they searched for months for the unicorn deal. I'm not a fan of negotiating as I'm quite terrible at it, but I'm satisfied with what I paid and absolutely love my ride

[Desibaba]

Originally Posted by rozyd

I wholeheartedly agree. Hopefully Desibaba your dismissive tone about your customers doesn't come across in real life.

In real life I have to act the part but if I had a dollar for every time a customer told me they were "Coming back later to buy" but didn't or said they were "just looking" and then an hour later were signing paperwork for that car that they were supposedly "Just looking" at then id probably have every Rolex in the book in my collection including a Platona. That tells me they lie constantly and are sometimes way more deceptive can we can ever be. I am one of the top performers in my company in sales and my customer surveys which they receive after the sale are the at the top of the store. I must be doing something right lol

I wish the entire car industry went the Rolex AD way and every car had a 40 percent mark up and the prices were non negotiable. It would make life for us and for the customers a lot easier.

[wantonebad]

Originally Posted by Desibaba

In real life I have to act the part but if I had a dollar for every time a customer told me they were "Coming back later to buy" but didn't or said they were "just looking" and then an hour later were signing paperwork for that car that they were supposedly "Just looking" at then id probably have every Rolex in the book in my collection including a Platona. That tells me they lie constantly and are sometimes way more deceptive can we can ever be. I am one of the top performers in my company in sales and my customer surveys which they receive after the sale are the at the top of the store. I must be doing something right lol

I wish the entire car industry went the Rolex AD way and every car had a 40 percent mark up and the prices were non negotiable. It would make life for us and for the customers a lot easier.

Tells me all I need to know...

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by texex91

I never show my face in a dealership--everything handled on the phone. Just like my watches. Ship them to your house and FedEx paperwork.

Call sales manger directly.

Tell him you want to get to the price and get it done today.

Get your price then tell him a trade if you have it. And get it done.

If not, hang up and call the next one.

NEVER waste your time with floor guys, they have zero stroke and you're on their turf.

Phone is your friend.

I buy $50k to $300k cars 3-5 times a year without ever stepping foot in dealership. No need to. Plenty of info on internet and plenty of dealers all across the US. Find one, have it shipped to your house and cut the crap and game playing.

Simple.

Go get'em.

I agree 100% with this.

I have only walked into a dealership twice in the last 25 years to by a car. While both time turned out to be decent experiences, I spent way too much time there that could have been done over the phone and via email.

The last 4 cars I purchased in the last 5 years were all done in a matter of hours (a few phone calls and emails). The only time I went to the dealership was to take delivery.

On a side note, I used Truecar to shop my X5 in July. I found the "out the door pricing" to be horrible and I actually feel bad for anyone that trusts the discounts they promote. I used that discount as a jumping off point and ended up getting another $3200 off by dealing directly with the sales manager... more than double the Truecar discount

The salesman was just annoying and if I wasn't pressed for time, I would have argued that he shouldn't even get credit for the sale since he did nothing. He then had the nerve to ask that I give him "all 5's" when I received the BMW survey, saying that a 4 is a fail - Needless to say, I didn't give him a 5 or a 4.

He then had the nerve to send me an email questioning me about my responses.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by rr-nyc

I agree 100% with this.

I have only walked into a dealership twice in the last 25 years to by a car. While both time turned out to be decent experiences, I spent way too much time there that could have been done over the phone and via email.

The last 4 cars I purchased in the last 5 years were all done in a matter of hours (a few phone calls and emails). The only time I went to the dealership was to take delivery.

On a side note, I used Truecar to shop my X5 in July. I found the "out the door pricing" to be horrible and I actually feel bad for anyone that trusts the discounts they promote. I used that discount as a jumping off point and ended up getting another $3200 off by dealing directly with the sales manager... more than double the Truecar discount

The salesman was just annoying and if I wasn't pressed for time, I would have argued that he shouldn't even get credit for the sale since he did nothing. He then had the nerve to ask that I give him "all 5's" when I received the BMW survey, saying that a 4 is a fail - Needless to say, I didn't give him a 5 or a 4.

He then had the nerve to send me an email questioning me about my responses.

Good stuff

[subtona]

Originally Posted by wantonebad

People lie, no doubt about it but the mere suggestion that customers are the deceitful ones in this process dismisses your credibility with me out of hand. That's not the norm and the suggestion that it is will devolve this discussion even further.
Well said Gus!

Originally Posted by rozyd

I wholeheartedly agree. Hopefully Desibaba your dismissive tone about your customers doesn't come across in real life.

Originally Posted by Desibaba

In real life I have to act the part but if I had a dollar for every time a customer told me they were "Coming back later to buy" but didn't or said they were "just looking" and then an hour later were signing paperwork for that car that they were supposedly "Just looking" at then id probably have every Rolex in the book in my collection including a Platona. That tells me they lie constantly and are sometimes way more deceptive can we can ever be. I am one of the top performers in my company in sales and my customer surveys which they receive after the sale are the at the top of the store. I must be doing something right lol

I wish the entire car industry went the Rolex AD way and every car had a 40 percent mark up and the prices were non negotiable. It would make life for us and for the customers a lot easier.

That would pretty much eliminate a lot of jobs?

I believe Saturn tried something like that, although I can't recall seeing any of their dealerships around lately.

[Desibaba]

Originally Posted by subtona

That would pretty much eliminate a lot of jobs?

I believe Saturn tried something like that, although I can't recall seeing any of their dealerships around lately.

That's the problem. Toyota tried the pure price for their Scion line up when I was there and we sold between 400-500 Toyotas a month but we were lucky if we moved 15 Scions. When I was with CarMax on average we had to go through 10 customers before we got a deal. Right now at Lexus if I see two customers then one of them is leaving with a car. Everyone says they hate negotiating prices but for some reason those same people don't buy cars from non haggle dealers like CarMax either. Go figure

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by subtona

I have had poor experience dealing in nyc and neighboring parts, they are always given first opportunity but have not had the interest to do the right thing.

My experience has been much better elsewhere, of 10 new purchases:


I have purchased 2 in nyc area (different dealers), I would prefer to have a single mutually beneficial relationship, each were given the opportunity for additional sales and were grossly offensive regarding their difficult negotiation practices.


I have purchased 8 new vehicles between South Carolina (4) & Albany (3) and Upstate NY (1) And I was a repeat customer with each of them. 1 dealer closed and the other two were driven by availability at the time of purchase.

My long distance purchases have been negotiated over the phone or same day walk in drive out when I was in the area.

price is the first conversation (service is a whole entirely different discussion) I am not interested in squeezing the last nickle out of the dealer but the conversation has to be considerate of both sides of the sale or I walk quick.

I have found most dealers in Manhattan are pretty easy to deal with and negotiate with. It's always been quick and easy for me to by from company owned dealers rather than independently owned and operated IMO.

[Watchflair]

Originally Posted by Knappo 1307

Interesting wordage, coming from a current car salesman. You could see why some are less than thrilled with the whole car buying merry-go-round.....

..... If a customer chooses to add additional products to their purchase why would that be seen as something less than thrilling???

Just about every single retail outlet tries to sell you a warranty on the product you are purchasing. Sears, Home Depot, Best Buy, Walmart, Furniture Stores, etc... So why would purchasing additional products i.e. warranties on your significantly large purchase be an issue.

I really hate belly aching.

What ever happened to negotiating your best deal?

We all do it: case in point WATCHES

When was the last time someone went in and paid full price for a watch?

No you go and negotiate your best deal or buy third party through a trusted seller. Buying third party through a trusted seller is the equivalent of using a broker to buy a car.


There was one manufacturer that tried the fixed price no haggle point of sale on new cars---oh wait they're out of business. Face it: People like to negotiate. Who makes a large purchase and says okay to the first number?

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Desibaba

In real life I have to act the part but if I had a dollar for every time a customer told me they were "Coming back later to buy" but didn't or said they were "just looking" and then an hour later were signing paperwork for that car that they were supposedly "Just looking" at then id probably have every Rolex in the book in my collection including a Platona. That tells me they lie constantly and are sometimes way more deceptive can we can ever be.

It could also mean they don't want you hovering over their shoulder while they look.

[Desibaba]

Originally Posted by SMD

It could also mean they don't want you hovering over their shoulder while they look.

I leave them alone after I hand them my business card if I get the vibe they really don't want to be bothered. When they realize the cars are all locked up and they cant get inside they come looking for me

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by Watchflair

..... If a customer chooses to add additional products to their purchase why would that be seen as something less than thrilling???

Just about every single retail outlet tries to sell you a warranty on the product you are purchasing. Sears, Home Depot, Best Buy, Walmart, Furniture Stores, etc... So why would purchasing additional products i.e. warranties on your significantly large purchase be an issue.

I really hate belly aching.

What ever happened to negotiating your best deal?

We all do it: case in point WATCHES

When was the last time someone went in and paid full price for a watch?

No you go and negotiate your best deal or buy third party through a trusted seller. Buying third party through a trusted seller is the equivalent of using a broker to buy a car.


There was one manufacturer that tried the fixed price no haggle point of sale on new cars---oh wait they're out of business. Face it: People like to negotiate. Who makes a large purchase and says okay to the first number?

Certainly wasn't "Belly Aching", and absolutely nothing wrong with negotiating. My point was many people don't like the whole back and forth to the sale manager, waiting, and then piling on extras after a deal is made ie: gap insurance, different types of extended warranties. As far as your comparison of buying a watch, to buying a car, I'e never had a bad experience ever buying a Watch and never had to wait around for hours while the salesperson had to go speak to a manager about a discount. Maybe I've just been lucky, but the comparison of buying a watch to buying a car is not a good one. IMHO...

[Lordofrolex]

Its the worst

[Desibaba]

It doesn't matter if you sell Kias or Rolls Royces this is usually true in my experience.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Watchflair

.....


There was one manufacturer that tried the fixed price no haggle point of sale on new cars---oh wait they're out of business. Face it: People like to negotiate. Who makes a large purchase and says okay to the first number?

That manufacturer (Saturn) had a bad product. They wouldn't have succeeded selling that product anyway.

People aren't accustomed to negotiating anything. Do you negotiate at the grocery store? WalMart? Gas station? Doctors office? The vast majority of car buyers are not accustomed to negotiating a purchase and are not on even ground with a dealer who manipulates buyers for a living.

The negotiation isn't the point of this thread though. It's the environment the dealer puts you in. All the overhead add on fees, stupid games to manipulate the buyer, and the perception you get that you're being taken for a ride create a frustrating experience for many car buyers.

[cedargrove]

Originally Posted by Desibaba

In real life I have to act the part but if I had a dollar for every time a customer told me they were "Coming back later to buy" but didn't or said they were "just looking" and then an hour later were signing paperwork for that car that they were supposedly "Just looking" at then id probably have every Rolex in the book in my collection including a Platona. That tells me they lie constantly and are sometimes way more deceptive can we can ever be.

Really? Your example of customer deception is when they say they are "just looking" and then end up buying a car? I think that's the kind of lying most sales people would welcome. Get real.