Worked at an AD in Cincinnati

[train-time]

Originally Posted by Madman37

I understand what you are saying here but unfortunately this happens everywhere in life. Inequality in who might be chosen to join a partnership of a firm, or who gets a seat at a really expensive restaurant, access to aa car etc. It’s not the fault of the company only it’s the people who want the product or access. Once that stops then the company is impacted and will stop practices like you describe.

You are exactly correct with your assessment. And the OP and others with similar situations are always talking about awarding the hard to get pieces this way at MSRP.

A local AD in my area solved the allocation problem by selling at current market value so everyone has an equal opportunity to get one of the hard to get pieces but they have to pay current market value. It doesn't matter who you are as long as you have the bucks, you will get the watch!

[Eric-London]

Originally Posted by goldboy

Pffffff

[Goatrope]

Originally Posted by train-time

You are exactly correct with your assessment. And the OP and others with similar situations are always talking about awarding the hard to get pieces this way at MSRP.

A local AD in my area solved the allocation problem by selling at current market value so everyone has an equal opportunity to get one of the hard to get pieces but they have to pay current market value. It doesn't matter who you are as long as you have the bucks, you will get the watch!

Interesting. I’ve never heard of an AD selling at market prices. Is that a new thing or have I just been under a rock.

[East of Eden]

Originally Posted by Not My Style

Let me clarify...

I like the people at R and P, and I mostly enjoyed working there until I stepped behind the Rolex counter. I'm honest, and I don't like playing games. The brand needs to be called out for making promises they don't intend on keeping.

And the watchmakers there are good at their jobs, but they do make mistakes. I would go to bat for them every time. The attitude shown towards me was less than stellar from the head watchmaker, so a simple task he couldn't perform proves he needs to chill out on the level of arrogance shown towards me.

Nevertheless, I witnessed and saw things that raise ethical questions. Like it or not, I witnessed things that should be brought to light. Picking and choosing who the rules apply to, or how we dictate who the right customer is based on status or purchasing history, just seems appalling. I shared an anecdote about two women I encountered, how each treated me, and how we choose who to sell to. In this case, influence outweighed human decency. I don't think that's the culture Hans Wilsdorf would want for his product.

It's a watch. It's not the end all, be all. Most of my clients were great people, and it always broke my heart when a company that welcomes everyone, changed its approach when I stood behind the Rolex counter. All of a sudden, "everyone" is an exclusive group. Is that necessarily R&P's fault, or is just hand being dealt by Rolex? I don't know, but the lack of transparency and the entitled attitude of Rolex made me hate the brand.

Thanks for posting, that's what this forum is for, opinions on all things Rolex. As far as the two women, and the AD chosing to sell to the jerk, I don't think it's the AD's concern about their moral character and decency, those questions are valid when choosing a spouse or friends, not when running a business, whose priority is to maximize stockholder value and paying rent, employees, etc. I doubt Hans Wilsdorf would have any problem with how ADs operate today, I've heard it said his own decency was lacking, having cheated on wives, etc. That's between him and God, and has no bearing on my watch choices today. Wilsdorf was all about marketing, I'd say Rolex has that perfected given the demand which most watchmakers can only dream of.

You stated in the OP that Rolex isn't the 'best' watch, I'm not sure forum members say it is, nor is it the most expensive. To me, unlike a lot of disposable junk sold today, Rolex sells watches that are beautiful, accurate, durable, hold their value well, and can be passed down to the next generation.

[Njkdog]

Originally Posted by TheHulk

Oh brother! Screwed out of sales tax? Give me a break!! The guy that bought the Platona surely pays his fair sure. The rest- blah blah blah

Actually, probably not. Over the years, the more money I’ve made, the better my accounts have gotten at having me pay less and less taxes.

Edit: technically speaking, I don’t make that much money. Sometimes actually, no money at all.

[Scholar]

Originally Posted by Roger Lococco

It's just just a watch but it's also just a business like any other.

The owner is going to try to maximize their profits. A hypothetical as an example ... maybe the owner thought that the spouse of the Reds player might recommend the store to her friends, who would potentially then come in and buy expensive jewelry or PM watches. Is that a scientific calculation? No. But it's certainly conceivable that they had experience with a sale like that working out for a future stream of revenues and profits.

Anyway, thanks for posting your experiences. I found it to be an interesting read.

As a point of contrast, though, if I go into a Savile Row tailor’s shop, I am treated as a full customer. It doesn’t matter that someone else might come and order 20 suits rather than my one suit (future cash flow), we’re all treated as real customers.

Rolex ADs are different and a particularly disgusting bunch unfortunately, in my experience. They won’t even entertain putting me on the list for an Oyster Perpetual or Datejust. This has been the case across multiple ADs in multiple states. (Wasn’t the case a decade ago, I remember, but that makes the present behavior that much more disgusting.)

[j.mo]

Originally Posted by Scholar

As a point of contrast, though, if I go into a Savile Row tailor’s shop, I am treated as a full customer. It doesn’t matter that someone else might come and order 20 suits rather than my one suit (future cash flow), we’re all treated as real customers.

Rolex ADs are different and a particularly disgusting bunch unfortunately, in my experience. They won’t even entertain putting me on the list for an Oyster Perpetual or Datejust. This has been the case across multiple ADs in multiple states. (Wasn’t the case a decade ago, I remember, but that makes the present behavior that much more disgusting.)

Originally Posted by Scholar

As a point of contrast, though, if I go into a Savile Row tailor’s shop, I am treated as a full customer. It doesn’t matter that someone else might come and order 20 suits rather than my one suit (future cash flow), we’re all treated as real customers.

Rolex ADs are different and a particularly disgusting bunch unfortunately, in my experience. They won’t even entertain putting me on the list for an Oyster Perpetual or Datejust. This has been the case across multiple ADs in multiple states. (Wasn’t the case a decade ago, I remember, but that makes the present behavior that much more disgusting.)

My local AD Devon’s, won’t even give me the time of day. And I have a hulk, BLNR, and 116610ln
Not that I’m a HUGE fish, but I’m not a chump.
I would buy a Daytona or BLRO “given the chance”


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[Bryan81]

Originally Posted by Scholar

As a point of contrast, though, if I go into a Savile Row tailor’s shop, I am treated as a full customer. It doesn’t matter that someone else might come and order 20 suits rather than my one suit (future cash flow), we’re all treated as real customers.

Rolex ADs are different and a particularly disgusting bunch unfortunately, in my experience. They won’t even entertain putting me on the list for an Oyster Perpetual or Datejust. This has been the case across multiple ADs in multiple states. (Wasn’t the case a decade ago, I remember, but that makes the present behavior that much more disgusting.)

Not quite the same. The supply of Rolex watches for an AD is fairly fixed. No matter how much demand, the supply doesn’t increase. They can just sell to their best customers and not lose money.

For the tailor, the supply of suits isn’t as fixed, or at the very least isn’t perceived as fixed to the same degree. When there’s more demand then, to a certain extent, they can produce more suits. By serving everyone well, they can increase their income and profit.

Even if demand increases and the tailor can’t increase supply (maxed out on the number of suits they can produce, even if hiring more assistants), they can increase the price. For the Rolex AD, they can’t really increase the price. If anything, demand higher than supply is a pain in the neck for them rather than an opportunity to increase profit.


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[VictorGMT]

Originally Posted by Scholar

As a point of contrast, though, if I go into a Savile Row tailor’s shop, I am treated as a full customer. It doesn’t matter that someone else might come and order 20 suits rather than my one suit (future cash flow), we’re all treated as real customers.

Rolex ADs are different and a particularly disgusting bunch unfortunately, in my experience. They won’t even entertain putting me on the list for an Oyster Perpetual or Datejust. This has been the case across multiple ADs in multiple states. (Wasn’t the case a decade ago, I remember, but that makes the present behavior that much more disgusting.)

Economics is the allocation of resources in scarcity.

Savile Row tailor shops probably have tailors hoping to be called back to work, due to plummeting formalwear demand and increased quality of off-shore competition. For the consumer, there is no scarcity. There is abundance. Allocation is not necessary.

At MSRP, supply for Rolex is greater than demand. There is scarcity. The watches WILL be allocated.

- By lines
- By pricing (AD's aren't permitted)
- By future customer value
- By transaction value (bundle)
- By past customer value
- By whim

Everyone who walks into the tailor shop will get a suit. Not everyone who walks into an AD gets a Rolex. With those facts in mind, AD's are free to pick an allocation method.

- Customers who have spent a lot or are high status don't like lines
- Customers who have spent little or nothing don't like allocation by customer value
- The lucky and the unique like allocation by whim, the indistinguishable and unlucky don't.

At these prices, demand is greater than supply. There is scarcity. Someone will be unhappy. We all think the AD should use the allocation method that favors us, that one seems most "fair" or "makes the most sense", etc.

[Big Tex Rolex]

There is no game, it’s just the way it is …

“A” List customers, those that come into the store regularly, and buy diamond earrings, diamond bracelets, etc., get first offer of any Rolex that comes in … and if you’re in the “100 Club”, and ask for a certain watch, you’re going to get it.

Then it trickles down from there … to the “75 Club”, then to the peons in the “50 Club” … etc., etc.

I’m not for it, and I’m not in any of those classifications … but as a business, I get it …

Why would you not treat your best customers with preferential treatment ??

Giving them what they want keeps them coming back, to buy more bracelets … which keeps the lights on.

[VictorGMT]

Originally Posted by Bryan81

Not quite the same. The supply of Rolex watches for an AD is fairly fixed. No matter how much demand, the supply doesn’t increase. They can just sell to their best customers and not lose money.

For the tailor, the supply of suits isn’t as fixed, or at the very least isn’t perceived as fixed to the same degree. When there’s more demand then, to a certain extent, they can produce more suits. By serving everyone well, they can increase their income and profit.

Even if demand increases and the tailor can’t increase supply (maxed out on the number of suits they can produce, even if hiring more assistants), they can increase the price. For the Rolex AD, they can’t really increase the price. If anything, demand higher than supply is a pain in the neck for them rather than an opportunity to increase profit.


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Oops I was typing the same thing, it just took me longer.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by jlovda

I doubt it. Most don't.

I think I might be inclined to agree in most cases
Then again the purchaser may have had a pocket full of money from an inheritance or divorce settlement

[pursang_]

I love the analogy to Savile Row.

Your understanding couldn't be any more wrong:

Bespoke tailoring is as in demand as it's ever been. Whether the houses or the freelance tailors there is no shortage of work. Some have their books closed entirely. Others have waiting lists *cough*

A cutter who measures, cuts the suit, and does fittings can realistically crank out about 150 suits a year.

The "finishers" who actually tailor the garments for good take about 30-40 hours of labor for a three piece. Some tailoring styles are far more.

The scalability of anything handmade is ultimately constrained by the number of hands involved. There's just no cheating this fact. Bespoke tailoring is where economies of scale goes to die.

[rockysw]

thanks for posting. Dont mind the post needlessly critisizing your views.

Its good to know that some in the industry feel the same way as a lot of customers.

[pursang_]

OP

https://old.reddit.com/r/rolex/comme...el_good_story/

[1995akcoop]

So many doubt this guy yet we’ve had similar complaints… especially when it came to incompetent watch tech hence why we’re so adamant about shipping only to RSC


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[JSCP]

They offer you a watch if they like you, period. I have two AD’s and bought before hype and beginning of hype, then now that they are not easy to get. They know you really like watches and not a flipper. They know.

So OP’s insights are old news that don’t really bring much true insight. Going “nowhere”….

[perf0rmance]

Originally Posted by pursang_

OP

https://old.reddit.com/r/rolex/comme...el_good_story/

If that’s a true story, then there’s hope for us yet! LOL.

[Wayrollie]

Having a bit of success in my purchases and typically following the same “milestone celebration” visits (that generally lead to purchases within a few months), I can attest that the SA can only advocate for you for so much. End of the day, it depends on the store owner/Director that decides where that allocation goes. It can be instant, it could be a month, it could be towards the date of your milestone celebration, and strangely, it could be years. I would imagine for those waiting for years, they are consistently being outstoried by customers and outadvocated by the SAs. But given the demand of say a panda or Pepsi, there is always a request for it, so if you’re not getting it in a few months, safe to say… move on and find another AD and SA that will fight for you. Unless you essentially resubmit your name for consideration on a monthly basis, which explains why the monthly checkins are useful and necessary.

As for me personally, I know what I’m getting into and I know the game that’s being played. And I go out of the way to make sure I’m an all star caliber player when the scouts are watching me come in. It obviously varies based on the metro you’re in but you obviously have to make yourself stand out. It’s like a job application really. I actually like the fact that I have a panda and no one else does. It makes me feel special. I’m sure if everyone were getting pandas left and right, I would feel less special. And that’s true, I’d get something with more demand, less supply, and more of a higher value. Not that I’m going to sell it, but because I got something that is special. Would any of you guys get it if it’s no longer special or hard to get?

As many of you have said, it’s just a watch attached to a brand. Doesn’t make me a better person. However, judging by how some people respond on this forum to certain posts, it definitely indicates that this brand (and the chase for watches) does make some people reflect their not so best selves. Too little info? Flamed. Too much info? Flamed. Numbers are a bit off? Flamed. Selective outrage is unreal, and within a few days or hours, the post is forgotten and people move on to the next Molotov.

OP, thank you for taking the time to speak about something that you believe in, and for spending the time to write about it. Hope you have a better job that you like and can support and identify with the brand.

[zengineer]

I used to work at a Speedway gas station. The hot dogs are not organic.
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[fredos_rolex]

Even if you're patient, is there any realistic chance an average Joe can EVER get allocated a Daytona panda at an AD? At my preferred AD shop, I've never even seen one outside of their exhibition pieces.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by fredos_rolex

Even if you're patient, is there any realistic chance an average Joe can EVER get allocated a Daytona panda at an AD? At my preferred AD shop, I've never even seen one outside of their exhibition pieces.

They get a few each year. Only the selected customers who got them know they ever came in.

[JDsnewwatch]

Originally Posted by Not My Style

I worked at an AD in Cincinnati for two years, so let me give you some insight on what it's like.

First, if you want a sports model, you better buy other things. My AD wouldn't sell a sports model to anyone without previous purchase, with few exceptions. A two-toned Sea-dweller, sure, because no one wants that watch. We would write names on cards and pretend we were adding clients to some master list, but the truth is, it was just input into some program to automatically text the client. Rolex wants ADs to keep the dream alive, because not everyone is getting what they want.

Second, it's more important who you are than how you are. I had a sweet young woman check in with me monthly asking to get her fiance a Submariner. She wasn't rich or famous, just a hard working woman who saved up to get her man something special. I was really hoping to make this happen…

Another woman walked in during this time, arrogant and conceited. Talked to me like I was beneath her, asking for the same watch. I informed her that we would try, but she didn't want to hear it. Her husband was some no name, buried on the roster, Reds baseball player. Frankly, her attitude had me completely disgusted.

When I told the owners about this, they grabbed a Submariner from the safe and sold it to her the next day. I got credit for the sale, and I hated every second of it. This woman was vile, and her arrogance stemmed from who she was married to, not even her own accomplishments.

Third, there are rules to buying Rolex…but those rules can be broken. Again, if you're influential, or just rich, the rules don't apply.

Most of my clients wanted me to ship them their watches to avoid paying taxes. Now legally speaking, if I ship you the watch, you report it in your home state. But honestly, we knew most, if not all, our clients were skipping this procedure.

But worse than "legal" tax fraud is just straight up tax fraud. My associate had a client named Jack out of New York drive eight hours to put a platinum Daytona in his pocket and walk out, only for us to later ship him an empty box. That's $5,000 in taxes Ohio got screwed out of…taxes that go to police, schools, infrastructure. Do you think these guys care? Nope. This happened several times while I worked there.

Fourth, watchmakers aren't Gods. So many people were amazed to meet our watchmakers, but let me give you some insight…it's just a two year technical program. They're human, and they screw up a lot.

I saw two watches get destroyed because they forgot to simply tighten the case backs. I once watched both watchmakers struggle to make a simple fix before telling me it was irreparable, and it had to be shipped back. I took the watch from them, looked at it for 10 seconds, and told them here's what's stopping the repair…you would have thought I cracked the code. Numerous times they couldn't get the watch backs off for battery repairs.

And the level of arrogance having that title almost matched the level of arrogance from some of my clients. The best compliment I got from them was, "You're smart enough to be a watchmaker." Nevermind I have an actual college degree, why would I want to waste my life working on trinkets? These guys act like they're curing cancer, when they're glorified toy makers.

Fifth, Rolexes are mechanical. If you complain that your watch isn't accurate, then look at your cell phone. Or buy a Casio. It amazes me how many people actually think Rolex is the best at time keeping. Everyone has a watch in their pocket connected to a satellite.

Sixth, Rolex is a company more concerned about image than honesty. Do you think they're going to admit to you that you'll never get that watch you desire? Do you think they care if you saved up for something special? If you're not a select client, don't bother.

As someone who sold Rolex, I can honestly say I hate their product and everything associated with it. It reeks of arrogance and entitlement, and why?

Are they the best watch on the market? No, there are companies that do far better.

Are they truly handcrafted? No, they're mass produced.

Are they going to make you a better person? No, 99% of people don't care what watch you're wearing. If you're an entitled jerk without a Rolex, you'll still be an entitled jerk when you put one on. I know plenty of them.

But if you want to keep chasing that dream, stop on down to Richter and Phillips.

Please tell us about how your previous employer supplied watches to the grey market? You know, the watches that they never got?

[ArtNouveau]

Originally Posted by train-time

You are exactly correct with your assessment. And the OP and others with similar situations are always talking about awarding the hard to get pieces this way at MSRP.

A local AD in my area solved the allocation problem by selling at current market value so everyone has an equal opportunity to get one of the hard to get pieces but they have to pay current market value. It doesn't matter who you are as long as you have the bucks, you will get the watch!

At least in the US, an AD selling their watches for “market value” would be grounds for losing their franchise. I’d have to see proof of that before believing as most AD’s will do whatever RolexUSA tells them to do to keep their money printing franchise going.
No AD I have ever dealt with over the past 30+ years has ever done that except maybe one. They offered me a 116500 back around 2017 with a convoluted story and a “need” for it to be $5K over MSRP. Less than six months later they were no longer an AD, dropped by both Rolex and Omega.

[WilsdorfNDavis]

Originally Posted by ArtNouveau

They offered me a 116500 back around 2017 with a convoluted story and a “need” for it to be $5K over MSRP. Less than six months later they were no longer an AD, dropped by both Rolex and Omega.

They probably already knew they were losing their AD status so they were trying to get as much as possible from their remaining stock...

[ChocBoyWonder]

Originally Posted by BillA

Why do so many flame the OP, that is his opinion and experience. You can accept it or reject it, but the anger here is off the chart.

My question exactly. I'm interested in knowing how many users on this thread are owners and how many are waiting for the first call like myself. I can't even land an AK. In any even whether OP was a ticked employee wanting to vent or just someone fed up, I appreciate what they are saying. It's up to the reader to interpret. Just my thoughts

[BroncoOne]

There’s some sour grapes. I’m sorry that you are so angry.

As for the sales tax, I’m sure that the buyer pays more tax in a single quarter than you or most other people will pay over their entire lives. I’m not losing sleep that the state didn’t also confiscate another $5000 oh his money to light the state house speaker’s cigar.

TheAD has the absolute right to sell a watch to whichever customer that they believe will drive their own business, that they, not you, risk the capital to open. Sure, I’d rather the sweet woman got the watch, but they have to pay the bills, including your paycheck. I note that you didn’t report offering to waive your pay that week to direct the watch to her.

Sorry for being snarky, but look at the other side.

[rmwill]

Keep arguing with a one post chatbot folks!

[bluestreak]

Originally Posted by BroncoOne

As for the sales tax, I’m sure that the buyer pays more tax in a single quarter than you or most other people will pay over their entire lives. I’m not losing sleep that the state didn’t also confiscate another $5000 oh his money to light the state house speaker’s cigar.

Yes, if you’re buying a Rolex you shouldn’t pay taxes on a luxury purchase. Because you’ve already paid more taxes than most plebes.

Lol. I wonder why most people think Rolex owners are douchebags…

[rockysw]

Originally Posted by BroncoOne

There’s some sour grapes. I’m sorry that you are so angry.

As for the sales tax, I’m sure that the buyer pays more tax in a single quarter than you or most other people will pay over their entire lives. I’m not losing sleep that the state didn’t also confiscate another $5000 oh his money to light the state house speaker’s cigar.

TheAD has the absolute right to sell a watch to whichever customer that they believe will drive their own business, that they, not you, risk the capital to open. Sure, I’d rather the sweet woman got the watch, but they have to pay the bills, including your paycheck. I note that you didn’t report offering to waive your pay that week to direct the watch to her.

Sorry for being snarky, but look at the other side.

oh wow, calm down. Like it or not, OP has the right to express his opinion. Seems like you are deep in the rolex game.