If you spend $10,000(investing discussion) or more...

[Polarbears]

Investment does not have to be a dirty word. I remember when I was a kid and I got braces and the sign at the entrance said “invest in your smile”. Keep smiling friends!

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

Investment does not have to be a dirty word. I remember when I was a kid and I got braces and the sign at the entrance said “invest in your smile”. Keep smiling friends!

There we must totally agree.
I invest in my marriage daily by committing to repeatedly saying, “yes dear, you are right”.

[Dyim]

Certain Rolex models tend to hold their value well. Sometimes, you get lucky and might have bought a modern day PN. Time will tell.

I don't look at it as investment. More like a lottery ticket you can wear and enjoy that might make you money.

[lucevan le stelle]

Ongoing posts of this nature seem to be the equivalent of click bait in my opinion. Still, people rise to the response. Posts of the same basic nature asked and answered already, extensively, and much too frequently, here. A hold topic until 2019 while we see where Basel 2018 pieces, SS allocation, and other Rolex availability issues proceed in the year?

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by lucevan le stelle

Ongoing posts of this nature seem to be the equivalent of click bait in my opinion. Still, people rise to the response.

You clicked.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

Are you ok with losing 30%, 50%?

Do you want to see value retention?

A modest increase in value?

The idea that individuals would spend vast sums of cash and have zero concern regarding how stable the value of that item is over the years is absurd.

The new reality is luxury watches is an investment that should be managed as such. Yes it’s not a true return type of investment but if I have a $100,000 watch collection I’m going to assemble pieces that retain and gain value. That’s just a simple reality of 2018 and forward.

I think the issue here is that you are asking this of a forum whose vast majority of members do not need their watches to appreciate, so they don't care at all.

Losing or making money on the watch is irrelevant. They don't see it as any significant portion of their wealth, so who cares? They don't need to ever sell them.

They find these questions annoying because it is not a world they live in, where they need to be concerned over watch values...etc

There are other venues where this is more important. These questions would be better suited there.

Otherwise, you know what watches to buy that don't lose value...it's easier than ever. The whole market is dogs#%! except for specific Rolex, AP, Patek.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by pickettt

You clicked.

me too.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

I think the issue here is that you are asking this of a forum whose vast majority of members do not need their watches to appreciate, so they don't care at all.

Losing or making money on the watch is irrelevant. They don't see it as any significant portion of their wealth, so who cares? They don't need to ever sell them.

They find these questions annoying because it is not a world they live in, where they need to be concerned over watch values...etc

There are other venues where this is more important. These questions would be better suited there.

Otherwise, you know what watches to buy that don't lose value...it's easier than ever. The whole market is dogs#%! except for specific Rolex, AP, Patek.

Great post! I didn’t see this perspective but do now. I feel blessed to own everything I own and some I never thought would be possible. I get some of the pushback and I think you summed it up well!

[TimeToWatch]

Polarbear is trolling us all. Go back to your bitcoin forum man, it’s a much better investment than Rolex.

[LightOnAHill]

there are bitcoin forums? oh man, I've been missing out

[scarlet knight]

I expect to make a profit on stocks, not watches. Cars in last place.

[Terrakot]

This is how I imagine the people who talking about an investment in Rolex

[MinMay]

I'm sure a lot of folks on this forums are millionaire already. If someone thinks Rolex is a great investment, then let them be. Who cares...let them do whatever they desire. I keep my own investment to myself and family...

[lucevan le stelle]

Originally Posted by pickettt

You clicked.

Yeah, you caught me!

[emd710]

Originally Posted by Speed

Value retention / gains are cherries on the top. I buy what I want to wear on my wrist.

I'm right there with you - I bought what sung to me.

I will add that - the good Lord willing, someday my Rolex choices will be on the wrists of my sons and grandsons and great grandsons and so on.

[jrs146]

I get where the OP is coming from. If I’m accumulating six figures in any item I’d hope for at least value retention with appreciation being a bonus. I say this with that being the overall idea. I’m totally fine losing on one and making it up with another. But all in. If I’m talking six figures I’m not going to buy pieces that will leave me with a 50% loss if I need to get out. This is why I’ve never taken the plunge into high end cars over and above what I drive as a daily.


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[AK797]

I was cool with losing 20% on average as this was a hobby and far better than cars where you lose 50% plus and Michelin restaurants where you lose the lot, unless you plant hairs in your food, but that was before all the hype.

Due to my timing, my watch portfolio is actually worth a fair bit more than I paid and that includes mostly PMs, but that is just a nice ancillary bonus, and was never the goal. And so going forward I think I will be more selective than before in picking models I think will either hold value or will be keepers, but I won't buy anything I don't love.

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by Terrakot

This is how I imagine the people who talking about an investment in Rolex
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=cISYzA36-ZY

[Jeffreyc87]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

Good for you. Just like cars I am going to buy what I LIKE and could care less of future VALUE because I in no way, shape or form consider watches an investment. If there value goes up, great, who cares because I won't be selling them. I keep them and will pass them down to the kids.

My "investing" will be in things that are far better investments like real estate, stocks, bonds, my 401K etc.

The idea of someone thinking a watch as an investment is absurd to me, so I guess that is what makes us different. I guess I live in old reality, whatever that is.

This. Watches are a luxury good I buy and wear and give to my kids and grandkids. I invest in real estate, stocks, bonds etc if I want a return.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by jrs146

I get where the OP is coming from. If I’m accumulating six figures in any item I’d hope for at least value retention with appreciation being a bonus. I say this with that being the overall idea. I’m totally fine losing on one and making it up with another. But all in. If I’m talking six figures I’m not going to buy pieces that will leave me with a 50% loss if I need to get out. This is why I’ve never taken the plunge into high end cars over and above what I drive as a daily.


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Exactly!

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by AK797

I was cool with losing 20% on average as this was a hobby and far better than cars where you lose 50% plus and Michelin restaurants where you lose the lot, unless you plant hairs in your food, but that was before all the hype.

Due to my timing, my watch portfolio is actually worth a fair bit more than I paid and that includes mostly PMs, but that is just a nice ancillary bonus, and was never the goal. And so going forward I think I will be more selective than before in picking models I think will either hold value or will be keepers, but I won't buy anything I don't love.

That’s my plan as well!

[red1108nyc]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyKoffee

I don't understand why the term "investment" creates so much fighting here on the discussion boards. So I will avoid the term and simply share my thoughts.

If I spend $10,000 on a luxurious vacation, my money is gone and replaced with precious memories, but that $10,000 is never coming back.

If I spend $10,000 on stocks, gold, silver, real estate or mutual funds, I may make or lose money depending on the market and my timing.

If I spend $10,000 on a new car, I will get a service from that car but that service will undoubtedly cost me money. I will never get all $10,000 back.

If I spend $10,000 on a Rolex watch, odds are I will be able to get my money back anytime I want to sell it. This is especially true if I purchased it pre-owned, bought an "in demand" model without paying a premium, took good care of it, and kept it fully insured.

I have enough money invested in stocks, real estate and precious metals. I don't need or want a new car, and I'm unable to get away for a vacation for a while. So I'm out looking for my third Rolex, and loving every minute of it.

Well said. I think I am in this camp too

[PJitz]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

Are you ok with losing 30%, 50%?

Do you want to see value retention?

A modest increase in value?

The idea that individuals would spend vast sums of cash and have zero concern regarding how stable the value of that item is over the years is absurd.

The new reality is luxury watches is an investment that should be managed as such. Yes it’s not a true return type of investment but if I have a $100,000 watch collection I’m going to assemble pieces that retain and gain value. That’s just a simple reality of 2018 and forward.

Originally Posted by Polarbears

Watches in general if you include all brands and models are a horrible investment. I don’t agree that specific brands and pieces are a horrible investment. But when I say investment again I’m using the word investment to mean the expense to obtain. I think value retention and modest returns is achievable. I also think that can be part of the fun. I don’t plan to sell anything therefore it’s all just for fun but I don’t need to sell an item to see that it’s value increased in the marketplace.

Best not to assume what constitutes a vast amount of money for the diverse range of TRF members. Also, calling the actions of forum members absurd isn't a great way to gain credibility.

You're not using the word 'investment' correctly.

[edweather]

As the saying goes, "Buy what you like, so if you can't sell it, you won't mind owning it."

[oroloi]

My Investments allow me to buy watches, I don’t care if my watches gain value or loose value.

My enjoyment in Watches is priceless.

[Onikage]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

I think the issue here is that you are asking this of a forum whose vast majority of members do not need their watches to appreciate, so they don't care at all.

Losing or making money on the watch is irrelevant. They don't see it as any significant portion of their wealth, so who cares? They don't need to ever sell them.

They find these questions annoying because it is not a world they live in, where they need to be concerned over watch values...etc

There are other venues where this is more important. These questions would be better suited there.

Otherwise, you know what watches to buy that don't lose value...it's easier than ever. The whole market is dogs#%! except for specific Rolex, AP, Patek.

x2 Can't see what can be attained here really. Frankly I'm amazed at how far the three almost identical threads have gone.
OK. So anyone serious about it, load up on as many Daytonas, Kermits and 16710s as you can. Wait a few years and get back to us on how you've doubled your personal fortune. After you've dealt with tyre kicking lowballers who aren't happy with your internet hype based asking price, authenticity meetings at ADs, possibility of any piece requiring service, some idiot wanting a refund after his wife used the Daytona in the hot tub, insurance against possibility of being robbed, your house burning down. Good luck.

[Fabrice M]

I think there is no denying that right now watch collecting is booming, especially for vintage and rare watches. I don't think however that there is any wisdom thinking watches can replace stocks ,real estate or even investing in your own business as primary investments. I do think that some watches: SS Rolex: GMT/Divingwatches/explorer for me. which seem to hold their value over time, some have actually increased greatly, are good place to "park" emergency money. I know that if I needed a quick 10k, I can sell a watch for about the value I paid for, maybe even more. I also understand that the hype and the prices could completely tumble... In this scenario I still end-up with a bunch of great watches that I enjoy and will last at the very least my lifetime. Kind of a win-win for me.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by jrs146

I get where the OP is coming from. If I’m accumulating six figures in any item I’d hope for at least value retention with appreciation being a bonus. I say this with that being the overall idea. I’m totally fine losing on one and making it up with another. But all in. If I’m talking six figures I’m not going to buy pieces that will leave me with a 50% loss if I need to get out. This is why I’ve never taken the plunge into high end cars over and above what I drive as a daily.


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Off topic a bit...but I have got to tell you, I recently purchased a high end car.

I realize it all depends on what you like, and what is important to you.

But this is the best purchase I ever made. By far........The joy I get out of it leaves me with a thrill and cold sweats. I love my watches, but to me, there is simply no comparison at all.

[nmb]

I like the idea that if you are forced to sell due to a drastic change in personal circumstances,then you can quickly turn a watch around into cash.For that reason I do choose purchases carefully to minimise taking a hit.
There are so many models I would like to own,but can't afford or warrant them all,why not choose based on the least possibility of taking a 'bath' down the road?
I have no intention of selling,however life can sometimes deal a nasty hand and unless you are worth millions,how secure are you?
If you still have the SS Zenith Daytona Polarbears,then wise choice,IMHO this one of the few 'modern' Rolex watches that will rocket in value over time.Not Paul Newman standards,but that was more about the owner,less about the watch.

[srvrf]

Originally Posted by nmb

I like the idea that if you are forced to sell due to a drastic change in personal circumstances,then you can quickly turn a watch around into cash.For that reason I do choose purchases carefully to minimise taking a hit.
There are so many models I would like to own,but can't afford or warrant them all,why not choose based on the least possibility of taking a 'bath' down the road?
I have no intention of selling,however life can sometimes deal a nasty hand and unless you are worth millions,how secure are you?
If you still have the SS Zenith Daytona Polarbears,then wise choice,IMHO this one of the few 'modern' Rolex watches that will rocket in value over time.Not Paul Newman standards,but that was more about the owner,less about the watch.

The two potential “problems” with this is that many could argue that if you’re forced to sell watches, you may need to re-evaluate your emergency fund and finances. The other problem is that while it seems that now the “safest” watches to buy are some of the SS Rolex models like the Daytona and new GMT. But to get them you currently have to pay a premium and you do not know what they’ll be worth down the road when you need to liquidate. How much will a ceramic Daytona be worth in ten years? Will you get $18,000 or so back? No one knows. There will also be ten more years of new releases which may effect demand of older watches.


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