32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

An obvious photoshop (kidding). It certainly is curious to me to see a specimen that has a much higher amplitude than mine. If every watch I ever owned performed like my new DJ41 I'd be ecstatic. At full wind it does 271 horizontal and 227 crown down. My Sub is doing 235 and 208, respectively. Yours is seemingly on steroids.

Bas said your numbers are "very good" but I would really love to hear some more thoughts on how your watch achieves this. The low amplitude issue has been described as an internal source of friction dragging down the train efficiency. That all makes sense. So what would we conclude with yours? Looser tolerances? A stronger mainspring? IF, and that's a big if, Rolex has finally made a real fix for this issue, could we be seeing it here? In other words, a whole new range of amplitudes becoming "the norm". Again, I would love, hell I'd pay, to have some actual watchmakers comment on this haha.

I don’t know, to be honest I think it’s a problem movement as it’s not very consistent vs my other normal 32xx and the thing runs slow in my wrist :(. In spec but slow side.

I’ll keep and eye on it and if I see changes in on wrist performance I’ll report back.


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[amanbra]

This is what’s weird about the watch. After wearing it all morning so full pr it’s -4 now vertical??? How?? Same amplitude.





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[HiBoost]

And you're letting it settle a while (I do 5 mins) before taking the reading? And even then I'll watch it for a couple mins to get the average values.

One thing that changes after wearing is the temp. You could try a few tests at full wind but different temps (30 mins in the fridge, etc) to see if any patterns show up.

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[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by amanbra

This is what’s weird about the watch. After wearing it all morning so full pr it’s -4 now vertical??? How?? Same amplitude.





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Also, can you record more positions? Ideally the 5 standard ones. Since you possess the "world record holder" 32xx we need as much data as possible :)

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[saxo3]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Yep 53 lift angle and yes around 270 for crown up full PR after manually winding to top it off.

I’m hoping that’s the reason why it’s running a tad slow vs the amp issue. It started off it’s life closer to 0s per day.

Originally Posted by amanbra

Here it is everyone have a great day

Hello amanbra,

in this thread, you participated so far with 87 posts, since 24.01.2021. Therefore, you know the 32xx topic very well and are probably aware that 270 degrees have never been reported for any 32xx in vertical position.

I'm interested to see your 32xx TG data in ALL horizontal AND vertical positions.

Can you do 5 position measurements for all your 32xx watches? All after full caliber winding, using the procedure published several times in this thread.

It would be nice if you would share the results here using the following type of summary table.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Also, can you record more positions? Ideally the 5 standard ones. Since you possess the "world record holder" 32xx we need as much data as possible :)

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Yeah maybe over Christmas but won’t be happening anytime soon.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Hello amanbra,

in this thread, you participated so far with 87 posts, since 24.01.2021. Therefore, you know the 32xx topic very well and are probably aware that 270 degrees have never been reported for any 32xx in vertical position.

I'm interested to see your 32xx TG data in ALL horizontal AND vertical positions.

Can you do 5 position measurements for all your 32xx watches? All after full caliber winding, using the procedure published several times in this thread.

It would be nice if you would share the results here using the following type of summary table.

Really can’t be bothered Saxo, I’ll do a few as requested my Hiboost over the Xmas break when I finally will have a break but that’s in.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Hello amanbra,

in this thread, you participated so far with 87 posts, since 24.01.2021. Therefore, you know the 32xx topic very well and are probably aware that 270 degrees have never been reported for any 32xx in vertical position.

I'm interested to see your 32xx TG data in ALL horizontal AND vertical positions.

Can you do 5 position measurements for all your 32xx watches? All after full caliber winding, using the procedure published several times in this thread.

It would be nice if you would share the results here using the following type of summary table.

Here is my brand new sub full wound though if you’re worried there is something wrong with my machine.




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[saxo3]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Also, can you record more positions? Ideally the 5 standard ones. Since you possess the "world record holder" 32xx we need as much data as possible :)

Hi Jeff,
Concering amplitude numbers only, that's about the best result I ever measured for all my 32xx watches:

Sea-Dweller 126600, caliber 3235

None of my 32xx was ever above 300 degrees in any horizontal and never above 260 degrees in any vertical positions. In this thread these were the highest amplitudes reported, so far...

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Here is my brand new sub full wound though if you’re worried there is something wrong with my machine.


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These 278 degrees are in dial up position, as your photo shows.
That is a (very) good result.
What does the same watch give in vertical positions?

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by saxo3

These 278 degrees are in dial up position, as your photo shows.
That is a (very) good result.
What does the same watch give in vertical positions?

That one does 250 ish from memory. Didn’t take a photo.

This one I can find of my problem movement.

I really only sit and do this for a new watch once so I know how it started and only remeasure if I detect a change in the watch.

I reply to you folk when I’m making a coffee at the kitchen etc … my timegrapher is stored in the attic so it’s a PIA to get to etc… and here in Sydney we’re finally coming out of lockdown so business is insanely busy.




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[amanbra]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

And you're letting it settle a while (I do 5 mins) before taking the reading? And even then I'll watch it for a couple mins to get the average values.

One thing that changes after wearing is the temp. You could try a few tests at full wind but different temps (30 mins in the fridge, etc) to see if any patterns show up.

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Hey i missed all these questions, so what I do is set it for 4 second average and wait until the entire screen as stabilised (line graph) before i take a photo of it.

[CharlesN]

[QUOTE=amanbra;11755702]



I am a little perplexed by the photo you are showing ....

Have you wrapped the watch head in a cloth ?

Which way round is the watch ? Is the Crown resting against the microphone end ?

[amanbra]

[QUOTE=CharlesN;11755720]

Originally Posted by amanbra

I am a little perplexed by the photo you are showing ....

Have you wrapped the watch head in a cloth ?

Which way round is the watch ? Is the Crown resting against the microphone end ?

hope this explains it, i wrap in cloth to avoid scratches.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/33417862...yABEgJ1PvD_BwE

[CharlesN]

I have just taken to photos of my watch in the bracket.
The FIRST picture is WRONG way round.
The SECOND picture is CORRECT way round.

Readings are slightly different between the two …

THIS IS WRONG .....




THIS IS CORRECT .....





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[amanbra]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

I have just taken to photos of my watch in the bracket.
The FIRST picture is WRONG way round.
The SECOND picture is CORRECT way round.

Readings are slightly different between the two …

THIS IS WRONG .....




THIS IS CORRECT .....





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really why is there a gap for the crown in the plastic then?

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by amanbra

really why is there a gap for the crown in the plastic then?

Thats something I have wondered and asked before.

I have asked Witschi ... A TG manufacturer.

They did not give me a reason.

But ... To perhaps make your mind more at easy ... All the textbooks i see show the crown against the microphone end. The Crown om my 126610 will not fit into the groove on my Weishi bracket As you can see it does on the Witschi arm.

The Cloth has "To Go" also.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Thats something I have wondered and asked before.

I have asked Witschi ... A TG manufacturer.

They did not give me a reason.

But ... To perhaps make your mind more at easy ... All the textbooks i see show the crown against the microphone end. The Crown om my 126610 will not fit into the groove on my Weishi bracket As you can see it does on the Witschi arm.

The Cloth has "To Go" also.

I find this so bizarre the crown position. Anyone who looks at that holding mechanism will conclude the crown goes into the plastic slot. I dunno if there is a difference between yours and my machine. Overall though the results should be materially correct, i can't fathom sound being better through a trip lock vs a normal case...

re the cloth as far as i'm concerned if i don't detect disturbance in the graph the cloth is fine, I don't care if it's a tiny bit off, I need to know if it's healthy or not. If the cloth mutes the sound a bit you just increase the gain.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by amanbra

I find this so bizarre the crown position. Anyone who looks at that holding mechanism will conclude the crown goes into the plastic slot. I dunno if there is a difference between yours and my machine. Overall though the results should be materially correct, i can't fathom sound being better through a trip lock vs a normal case...

re the cloth as far as i'm concerned if i don't detect disturbance in the graph the cloth is fine, I don't care if it's a tiny bit off, I need to know if it's healthy or not. If the cloth mutes the sound a bit you just increase the gain.

I have both a Weishi and Witschi. Bioth have very similar "Cut outs" The Weishi is an obvious Chinese copy of the very much more advanced Witschi. Witschi are very clearly the market leaders. Just about every manufacturer uses them and mare than a majority of watchmakers also.

The cloth is NOT OK to use It can muffle and absorb vibration noise. You do need to remove it.

[saxo3]

NEW 3235 PROBLEM

My Rolex 126600 dial has lost its red text "Sea-Dweller"!
Anyone knows how to repair?


Bezel insert positioned for genuine use

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

I have both a Weishi and Witschi. Bioth have very similar "Cut outs" The Weishi is an obvious Chinese copy of the very much more advanced Witschi. Witschi are very clearly the market leaders. Just about every manufacturer uses them and mare than a majority of watchmakers also.

The cloth is NOT OK to use It can muffle and absorb vibration noise. You do need to remove it.

yeah i know Witschi is the market leader but for me and what i use it for the weishi sufficed. It's sorta like bergeon tools vs the other stuff...

I'll chuck a beater watch on it without the cloth to see if there is a difference in results. I highly doubt there will be but I'll check one day.

But overall I measure once I get a new watch and if my watchtracker app shows the same results I really don't care, the two corroborate each other.

[CharlesN]

Placing the CROWN against the microphone is logical.

Reason .... The Crown is a part of the watch movement and is directly connected to it.

The case is not part of the movement. It is as it says .. A case.

When watches are made or assembled they are tested (COSC etc) uncased.

Thats some of the logic I guess.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Placing the CROWN against the microphone is logical.

Reason .... The Crown is a part of the watch movement and is directly connected to it.

The case is not part of the movement. It is as it says .. A case.

When watches are made or assembled they are tested (COSC etc) uncased.

Thats some of the logic I guess.

yeah look i'll give it ago, i'm still genuinely shocked lol, that holder has a slot cut out perfect for a crown. At the same time I don't disagree with the logic you present, lets see the results. I put electrical tape around the metal part as well so it's already dulled I guess... there's no way i'm putting a good watch directly against the metal though...

Anyway the s/d mine has shown as always mirrored the watch apps so I think it's overall okay though it might not be perfect.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by amanbra

yeah look i'll give it ago, i'm still genuinely shocked lol, that holder has a slot cut out perfect for a crown. At the same time I don't disagree with the logic you present, lets see the results. I put electrical tape around the metal part as well so it's already dulled I guess... there's no way i'm putting a good watch directly against the metal though...

Anyway the s/d mine has shown as always mirrored the watch apps so I think it's overall okay though it might not be perfect.

I've wondered the same thing about the slot in the plastic which would seem to accommodate a crown. But I've also tested mine both ways and the results are the same. I have tape over the metal side so I don't need any cloths.

Here's my explanation: this machine is quite simple. It has a microphone to listen to your watch ticking. As long as it can hear the ticks, it really doesn't matter which direction the watch is facing. If your particular watch insulates the sound significantly, then you may need to put the crown against the mic directly. But if it does not, orientation shouldn't matter. If the orientation being used were actually providing sound problems, you should see "drop outs" in the waveform where it couldn't hear properly for a time (and of course if it couldn't hear at all, you'd never get a graph to begin with).

I would therefore argue that if you are getting smooth lines on your screen, it can hear just fine. I can think of no possible way where having the watch rotated 180 degrees would somehow add or subtract 20 degrees to your amplitude yet everything else would look good.

[PhilippeD]

Originally Posted by saxo3

NEW 3235 PROBLEM

My Rolex 126600 dial has lost its red text "Sea-Dweller"!
Anyone knows how to repair?


Bezel insert positioned for genuine use

Seems like you have a limited "dissolving print" SD!

It must be worth 100k now.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by PhilippeD

Seems like you have a limited "dissolving print" SD!

It must be worth 100k now.

You are right, but I don't care about the increased value.

The red text must have peeled off somehow. But I could not find any traces. Are the ink particles already inside the movement?

Any idea how the red SD text can be added again onto my dial? I'm afraid that I need a new dial.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by amanbra

I really only sit and do this for a new watch once so I know how it started and only remeasure if I detect a change in the watch.

I reply to you folk when I’m making a coffee at the kitchen etc … my timegrapher is stored in the attic so it’s a PIA to get to etc… and here in Sydney we’re finally coming out of lockdown so business is insanely busy.

Would it not be quicker just to do the 5 position test than arguing against it in multiple posts?

270 degrees in a vertical position, and about 310 degrees in horizontal?

Maybe you don't care, but the result could be interesting for others, not only the amplitudes but also the individual rates and the X-value.

[CharlesN]

So I have to wonder ..........
Is it possible that the ...
"270 degrees in a vertical position, and about 310 degrees in horizontal" That has been mentioned earlier by "amanbra" is is the wrong way around ?

Both saxo3 and I are in the NORTHERN hemisphere.
amanbra is in the SOUTHERN hemisphere.

Could Horizontal and Vertical be different in the different hemispheres ?

[BLNR Nairobi]

Originally Posted by saxo3

NEW 3235 PROBLEM

My Rolex 126600 dial has lost its red text "Sea-Dweller"!
Anyone knows how to repair?


Bezel insert positioned for genuine use

Funniest thing I’ve read today. Haha

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Would it not be quicker just to do the 5 position test than arguing against it in multiple posts?

270 degrees in a vertical position, and about 310 degrees in horizontal?

Maybe you don't care, but the result could be interesting for others, not only the amplitudes but also the individual rates and the X-value.

I’m at work posting here and there during breaks vs sitting in my attic measure 5 positions for all my watches? Half of which are in a safety deposit box so I don’t even have immediate access?

I don’t care about this as much as you. My end goal is to have problem free watches not to investigate everything to the end. If there is an issue with my watch I sell it and buy new ones.

But here is a pic of the horizontal. I’ve never seen it at 310. 304 is the highest I’ve seen but generally 297-302.




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