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21 February 2016, 03:35 PM | #211 | |
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21 February 2016, 03:41 PM | #212 |
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Apple's stand against the Feds
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21 February 2016, 03:45 PM | #213 |
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Now that John McAfee has offered to hack into a locked iPhone 5c or eat his shoe, the solution seems obvious to me...
FBI should buy 100 iPhone 5c's, lock 'em with a 4 digit passcode and offer $10,000 to first 12-y.o. who opens it via an app without destroying its files. Much cheaper than a passel of DOJ lawyers and prolly faster, too.
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21 February 2016, 05:40 PM | #214 | |
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21 February 2016, 05:43 PM | #215 | |
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21 February 2016, 06:39 PM | #216 |
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I mean this in the most respectful way -- but there's quite a few of you who are far too deprived of judgment by their own opinions to take the few minutes it takes to do a little bit of research of what is happening here.
I beg of you - for all our sake - do your damn research. It takes two seconds on Google and the front page of the NYTimes to know what's going on. Making claims that Apple is standing along side "terrorists" is as ridiculous as making the claim that the iPhone or iPad your using makes you a terrorist for using an Apple product. |
21 February 2016, 07:49 PM | #217 |
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21 February 2016, 08:02 PM | #218 | |
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21 February 2016, 09:20 PM | #219 | |
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21 February 2016, 09:46 PM | #220 |
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Agreed
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22 February 2016, 01:38 AM | #221 | |
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The first part - regarding John McAfee is my restatement of his challenge to the FBI. I think he's being ridiculous. The second part is more light-hearted. Giving 5c's is not a bad idea to let true crypto experts design a method of their own. My reference to 12 y.o.'s is the light hearted part. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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22 February 2016, 01:56 AM | #222 | |
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If you and others want to believe that preventing LEA's from obtaining as much data and evidence as they can in the pursuit of preventing terrorism is a greater threat to freedom than the acts of terrorists themselves then that is of course your choice to feel that way. It seems to me that a lot of people are scared of the US Govt and their agencies here to the extent that the actions or attempted actions of said agencies actually seem to worry folks more than the terrorists themselves. This is actually quite worrying in itself and does not bode well for the future of cohesive law abiding society imo. BUT....at least we all do have the freedom to express these opinions as like I said there are plenty of places I go to where we'd all be thrown in jail for having these discussions in public! |
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22 February 2016, 02:45 AM | #223 | |
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We have the freedom to discuss now because our predecessors stood their ground against tyranny. There was a time not that long ago in America where your life could be destroyed if someone accused you of being a communist. You didn't actually have to be one, you just needed to travel in the wrong social circles. The way intelligence agencies use mass collections of meta data is to associate people to risk groups. Being in the wrong risk group is not unlike travelling in the wrong circles during the communist witch hunts. Guilt by association defines your position in the risk matrix, and you are not permitted the opportunity to defend yourself. Think you have nothing to hide? Play the terror version of 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon on all the contacts in your phone, as that is what the intelligence agencies will do with the data gathered from you. How many contacts link to people with foreign sounding names? Or names similar to known terrorists? Or people with too many contacts in terror countries? How many do a lot of international wire transfers? What risk group are you in? My concern is the same concern that James Madison, George Mason, and the early Americans had. People being people will find a way to oppress other people. The government cannot be allowed to be in a position to be the oppressor. Individual liberty must be protected to secure society from tyranny. |
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22 February 2016, 02:51 AM | #224 |
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22 February 2016, 03:32 AM | #225 |
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22 February 2016, 03:44 AM | #226 | |
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I have nothing to hide, but do I want my government (or anyone else's) snooping around in my phone, computer etc? Hell no! There's a million ways to fight terror. Making the general public scared isn't one. Scared people usually sacrifice their freedom for "protection and safety". Governments are funny, once they get to take something, they usually don't give it back. I've read this thread, and boy is it a merry-go-round. We're not getting forward... I just hope Apple won't be ordered to change the software.
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22 February 2016, 03:59 AM | #227 | |
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22 February 2016, 05:46 AM | #228 |
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Apple's stand against the Feds
One thing about which we should be clearer - this isn't a freedom of speech matter. That's the 1st Amendment.
This is about the 4th Amendment right against unreasonable search & seizure. And the suspect's iPhone has been the subject of a lawful investigation complete with properly approved search warrants. The question revolves around the governments ability to compel a 3rd party, namely Apple, to render assistance against its will. In America, a corporation has the same responsibilities and rights as an individual. Again, not taking sides, just clarifying. As for privacy, just using Tapatalk and sharing opinions on a privately hosted forum can abridge many of our rights - just read the end user agreements to which you click "I agree". Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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22 February 2016, 06:09 AM | #229 | |
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22 February 2016, 07:10 AM | #230 |
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Hope Tim Cook wins this fight. It's a fight for privacy and against using words like "terror" and "terrorist" as an excuse to abrogate American civil liberties. It's also good business since Apple will lose a considerable marketplace advantage if they can't sell security as a feature of their products.
In addition, the FBI's request seems rather disingenuous. Since the NSA is recording and logging all cell phone calls, the FBI could get what they say they want from the NSA. But what the FBI is really after is legal precedent. Steve, I'm in the market for one of these in 13". |
22 February 2016, 07:37 AM | #231 |
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I can't help thinking that this whole thing would have been better served behind closed doors. If, by some chance Apple win this, then the most secure computer for any global terrorist to store names, addresses, income, expenditure etc is an iPhone. Why would a terrorist use anything else? It is FBI/CIA/NSA proof.
I wonder if there is some bluff, double bluff, smoke and mirrors going on here.
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22 February 2016, 07:43 AM | #232 | |
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First, the Snowden case is different. That involves spying on US citizens WITHOUT following established checks and balances; I.e A court order, probably cause etc. We can devote 200 threads and about 1,000 pages to that topic, but I will stick to Apple. The government HAS followed proper procedures and obtained a court order, they are not trying to "bypass" any established legal proceedings. You say, that the government is not trustworthy with this information, as proven by Snowden. I say that our checks and balances are the best form of government out there. I am not Naieve and will say it is perfect, and that abuses are not possible, but I still support and believe this is the right cause of action. They went through our procedures, showed just cause, so comply with it Apple. If you believe that these procedures are not adequate, and/or are run by untrustworthy authorities, then run for office, get elected or vote for the candidates you feel would do a better job. These authorities are the ones we (the people) put in place, to protect us from things like terrorism. There are checks and balances in place and they have followed to try and give us this protection; Apple has no right to block them. I don't remember electing any Apple executive to protect me from terrorism or giving them the authority to pick and choose which court orders and laws they decide to comply with. And pray tell, what crime could possibly be worse then the brutal slaughter of innocent human beings, PERHAPS (GOD forbid) a member of your family or mine, to abide by our government rules and provide the requested information. If we were talking about a traffic ticket, I would probably agree with you. I understand what you are saying, that this is the "nose of the camel under the tent....Give them a little and they will take a lot" etc. That allowing them anything will result in a growing abuse of power, more invasion of privacy until we end up in a Facisist or Anarchy. I totally disagree there too. I firmly believe that with our current system of checks and balances, that will never happen. And now, with innocent people slaughtered, is the time to put faith in our authorities and give them the tools they need to protect us. Does the chance for abuse exist? Yes, I agree it does. However to thwart the murder of innocents, as a citizen, I am willing to take that chance; and even if present, would not lead to the totalirian society you describe. I flew 67 combat missions and lost friends over a country in the Middle East because I believe in my government. If Apple doesn't and won't abide by their laws meant to protect us from incidents like this, then leave the country. I feel as a Vet, I am entitled to this opinion. |
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22 February 2016, 07:59 AM | #233 | |
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You would agree, I trust, that there is nothing un-American about dissent. |
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22 February 2016, 10:51 AM | #234 | ||
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The government has developed its case and made arrests. There is not any compelling evidence that there is anything useful to be had on the phone that wasn't already obtained through other means. This is clearly a power grab. Quote:
I too am a veteran, but I do not believe that my service gives me the right to tell people to leave the country if they feel they are doing the right thing. I didn't serve to tell people to leave. I served because I felt that freedom isn't free and I was willing to pay the price. |
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22 February 2016, 10:58 AM | #235 |
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Why couldn't this have been done quietly in the interest of national security - like other things??
This could have been handled much better. |
22 February 2016, 11:43 AM | #236 | |
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BTW, I have nothing bad to say about their products, I actually think they were fantastic. I am having a HECK of a time trying to figure out this Android phone. Anybody an expert? |
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22 February 2016, 12:11 PM | #237 | |
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We all want to be careful about making decisions out a fear (fear of "terrorism," fear of attacks that haven't happened yet, fear of the "murder of innocents," etc.). I think my colleague Abdullah71601 has made the best argument for the moment. |
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22 February 2016, 12:13 PM | #238 |
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I read that both of the terrorists had personal phones and other electronic media they destroyed at some point prior to getting killed. It would seem to me, that while the work phone might have something on it, if he thought to destroy the other phones, why would he leave this one alone? I don't know about you, but I have had personal and work phones and made sure that I don't do anything personal on my work phone. Maybe that's just me.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/san-bernard...ry?id=35570286
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22 February 2016, 12:45 PM | #239 | |
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It would be wonderful to live in a world where we don't even have to think about things like this.... What's that John Lennon song? "You may say I'm a dreamer.." |
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22 February 2016, 12:58 PM | #240 | |
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