The Rolex Experience: The Authenticity Experts (Part II)

[CaveDiver]

The Rolex Experience: The Authenticity Experts (Part II)

This is part II of The Rolex Experience. Please read part one here before continuing:
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=109294

First I asked why they took the back off the watch and why the watchmaker stretched and pinched the gasket.

After my shock of the state of the watch shown on the Rolex cloth covered tray at the service desk, the kind gentleman explained that the bezel was not Rolex. Numerous inquires about their bezel concern went unanswered. I asked if it was the insert, and I was told the watchmaker did not comment on the insert and the issue was the bezel not the insert. I asked why Rolex New York serviced the watch in 95 (which was the last time it was touched and went unworn until November 09 when I tried it on my wrist). He stated they confirmed Rolex did service the watch in 95 by the markings on the watch’s case back. However, he stated back in 95 Rolex did not have the means to detect aftermarket parts as well as today. He asked for my service warranty card because I stated they last serviced the watch.


At that point I concluded they felt I was being untruthful. They took the case back off to verify if Rolex serviced the watch. I guess there is some secret Rolex watchmaker’s code they mark in the case back. I told him I had no issue with them taking the case back off, but they should not of been so secretive about their motives and should have told me they were going to do so. As to the state of the gasket, he said they were not finished with the assembly. I asked them why he would bring the watch out in that state, and I did not get a good answer other than he wanted to tell me there was an issue. He told me the only part on the watch they had an issue with was the bezel. There was no explanation for the condition of the watch to be presented to me this way. As to the bezel, Rolex never would tell me what gave them the idea it is not Rolex. Given the state my watch was provided to me and another issue that will be covered in Part III, I questioned the watchmaker who handled my father’s watch. At this time my beautiful wife stepped in and told me “I’m sure they will handle your father’s watch as professionals” to calm me down. I moved on after telling him I wanted them to put a new gasket on the watch and reminded him I am here for a bracelet. The service gentleman explained to me before they could provide a bracelet, they would have to replace the bezel with a Rolex bezel and service the watch. I had no problems with that, but I got the feeling they thought some shenanigans were taking place. I told the gentleman I had no issues replacing the bezel if it was indeed not a Rolex part. I then repeated what he told me before we started all this about Rolex not servicing a vintage watch. So after all this, I asked if he was saying they would service the watch. He then reached down and grabbed a service form for me to fill out. Another hour goes by and he comes back and said they could not service the watch. Their head watchmaker looked at it and said they could not service it, so no bracelet either. The gentleman stated the reasons they could not service the watch was concerns of dust form the lume may get into the movement as well as the hands and they would not be able to warrantee the service. He then reached down an grabbed this card:


I had a very stressful Rolex experience. The back removed, pinched gasket and them telling me my bezel is not Rolex. Why did they even go through all this if they would not service the watch? Only good thing was they confirmed Rolex did a service in 95 and it has a 1530 movement. The people I talked to at the desk were very courteous and professional.

Part III,
What is this that the Rolex watchmaker put on my watch? This was not on it before..

[rockyn]

That sounds like an awful experience, and if it were me I would be very upset. This makes me wonder about my brand new GMT II c, In 20 or 30 years from now, is Rolex going to say They can't service my watch because it is too old? I thought Rolexes were meant to be passed down from one generation to the next. You would think they would have thought of this a long time ago.

[CaveDiver]

^^,
I agree and once parts go out of production that is when they call it vintage. One of many conversations I had with the lady at the service desk on the very long wait.

I saw a video that said that Rolex’s are designed to be passed down from gen to gen.. Very good point.

[Fofo]

Originally Posted by CaveDiver

Part III,
What is this that the Rolex watchmaker put on my watch? This was not on it before..

Hi, Cave Diver!

That looks like a spring bar. I don't get your question: was it put at the service center? Where was it put? (because you said that it was not on it before, and even though a spring bar normal place is in between the lugs attaching the bracelet to the case, from your post it sounds, I don't know, different).

What an awful experience you had, and all because you wanted a new bracelet.

[CaveDiver]

Originally Posted by Fofo

Hi, Cave Diver!

That looks like a spring bar. I don't get your question: was it put at the service center? Where was it put? (because you said that it was not on it before, and even though a spring bar normal place is in between the lugs attaching the bracelet to the case, from your post it sounds, I don't know, different).

What an awful experience you had, and all because you wanted a new bracelet.

Yes, it was an awful experience. That is a spring bar but not for a 7206 bracelet for a Sub with open holes. That spring bar is not the spring bar that was installed on my watch when I handed over my watch to Rolex.
These are what were install on the watch when it was handed over to Rolex:


When I got it back it had these installed on the watch:


I’m fortunate I did not lose the watch. Reason for Part III

[Fofo]

Originally Posted by CaveDiver

Yes, it was an awful experience. That is a spring bar but not for a 7206 bracelet for a Sub with open holes. That spring bar is not the spring bar that was installed on my watch when I handed over my watch to Rolex.
These are what were install on the watch when it was handed over to Rolex:
...

When I got it back it had these installed on the watch:
...

I’m fortunate I did not lose the watch. Reason for Part III

Ah!!! I see your point now.

Wow, sounds like you would be better with someone who specializes in vintage models. This is from Larry (Tools) in another thread:

" Some questions have been made about restoration and service for vintage and rare models.

Mr. Bob Ridley is known for quality work in this area. He can be found at this site:

http://www.watchmakers.com/index.html "

[CaveDiver]

Yes, I have talked to Bob Ridley several times already. He is also local to me. However, he can not get a new bracelet from Rolex.

[Kokyuryoku]

Originally Posted by CaveDiver

Yes, I have talked to Bob Ridley several times already. He is also local to me. However, he can not get a new bracelet from Rolex.

Do you necessarily need a new bracelet? Wouldn't a vintage bracelet in better shape than yours satisfy your needs?

[CaveDiver]

Originally Posted by Kokyuryoku

Do you necessarily need a new bracelet? Wouldn't a vintage bracelet in better shape than yours satisfy your needs?

I have the 7206 C&I original rivet bracelet which is in good shap. It is too big for my wrist and I do not want to modify it even though Bob said there was no issue doing so. I guess I just wanted a new one from Rolex.

[Kokyuryoku]

Originally Posted by CaveDiver

I have the 7206 C&I original rivet bracelet which is in good shap. It is too big for my wrist and I do not want to modify it even though Bob said there was no issue doing so. I guess I just wanted a new one from Rolex.

When you say new, do you mean brand new or simply non rivetted? I'd just go with a used bracelet, have it modified and save myself the RSC headache.

[Hawk99]

These are what were install on the watch when it was handed over to Rolex:


When I got it back it had these installed on the watch:


Those are the same spring bars. Except one 'bar end' has pushed though the shoulder of the tube. That's why it looks so weird. Happened to one of mine. Got a new one the next day at an AD. No big worry as they do wear out.

Sorry to hear about the absurd policy behavior!

[CaveDiver]

Thanks. I was starting to wonder if I was the only one who felt that way.

It is hard to tell from the photo, but it is a different size and only has the two stage on one side. The ones I have are one stage only and the correct bars for the bracelet I have. That one is for a different band and worn out. I suspect it was picked up off the floor (notice the different wear pattern) .. I could of lost the watch,

This is like the one they put on:
http://www.ofrei.com/page_155.html#9545 about 2/3rds down the page
"Swiss Made 1.8 mm Thick 20 mm Spring Bar
Double shoulder on one end and single on the other. The body length is 19.65 mm and diameter is 1.8 mm, with pivot diameter of 0.88 and length of 2.0 mm. Made to fit RLX case, it would seem this bar would work best with lug sizes 20.5 mm to 21.5 mm. Generic Spring Bars MSA Assortment Refill 054 "

[springer]

So Cavediver, I guess you never called Chamosa Watch Repair? He worked at that madhouse for 10 years. And, he does know vintage Rolex. Actually that's the only brand he works on.

[CaveDiver]

Originally Posted by springer

So Cavediver, I guess you never called Chamosa Watch Repair? He worked at that madhouse for 10 years. And, he does know vintage Rolex. Actually that's the only brand he works on.

Hi John,
I have not called him yet. I was trying to get new bracelet and leave the 7206 as is.
Do you know if he has a Rolex parts account?
thanks

[ciclisto]

best person to verify sellers on this site

[Tools]

It seems like we have covered some of this area already...

If you want a new bracelet, take the old one off....... put on an old ratty strap....

Send your watch to the RSC in San Francisco.... ask for a complete service and tell them you also want a new Stainless Steel bracelet.... It is likely that they will put on a service replacement 93150......

San Fran is a complete service RSC, but it is not owned by Rolex so they are much more flexible....

[CaveDiver]

^^
Tools,
So they will service a vintage watch without wanting to replace the hands and dial? Lets just say I'm a little gun shy of RSC now. To be honest, I still think they are wrong about this bezel ring or whatever they say is the issue.

Oh, and no SF RSC has not been discussed.

[springer]

Originally Posted by CaveDiver

Hi John,
I have not called him yet. I was trying to get new bracelet and leave the 7206 as is.
Do you know if he has a Rolex parts account?
thanks

I've never asked.

[oakalley]

I feel for you, but yours is a never ending story of loyal Rolex owners who have run afoul of RSC's. Obviously that BS that they foster in their advertising and Videos about a Rolex as a lifetime investment that you can pass along to your children and grandchildren is just advertising hoopla. How many other Rolex owners have had authentication problems over an aftermarket part that was added, years ago by an unsuspecting previous owner. That's bad enough, but getting your vintage Rolex back from RSC with a brand new dial and hands replacing your vintage red sub dial and vintage hands, and yours are not returned and now "lost" has happened more than once.

If I were you, I would never darken the door of a RSC ever again. I would find a respected Rolex watchmaker such as Bob Ridley, have him service your watch and find yourself a good condition 93150 bracelet and enjoy your watch, without all the hassle.

I'm sure you could send it to RSC San Francisco, but you have to pack up your watch send it to them, worry about that, worry about correspondence via phone and email, all sorts of worries. You're in Dallas, Bob is in Arlington, 30-45 minutes away. You can hand him your watch, face to face discussions about what you want done are always better than phone calls and emails.

Very interesting story, sorry it has been such a negative experience.
Good Luck
Arthur

[CaveDiver]

Thanks Arthur,
I have read in a few places were RSC even in Geneva have falsely indentified their own parts as not their own. My wife asked me knowing what you know now would you buy a Rolex. I did see nice Yacht Master Platinum a few years ago and came within an inch of getting it. They way I feel right now, I’m glad I passed. Not because of the watch but because of the hassle it has been with Rolex and all the worries of getting taken by fake parts. While I was in the Rolex lobby I was told a story about an AD that was doing shenanigans with swapping out parts and Rolex found out about when watches started coming in for service. It is just a watch and who needs this. It is like you have to be an expert just to buy a watch and it appears a buyer is not always safe buying new.

Here is my fathers watch (on foreground right) back in the early 70’s. Is that a super dome on it?

[samt]

if refer back to your part 1 story with the bezel pic...
why don't you try rotating the pic 90degs left and compare with a similar bezel.. the seconds marking on the bezel from 0-15 looks thicker than normal.
however im not sure if watches of that era came with this kind of bezel

edit:
i googled and found the your 'thick stroke' bezel to tally with other 5512s
but the dial on the rest of the 5512s shows '200m=660ft'..not '660ft=200m'
while the rest of the 5513s shows '660ft=200m'..

the bezel for 5513 is thinner strokes...
your's is 5512 right?
looks like a 5513 dial with a 5512 bezel?
anyone can clarify.. im kinda confused..
ref to here

[jdc]

It seems you US guys get a rough deal with ROLEX USA with vintage Rolex compared with Bexley in the UK who from what I have read are far more customer orientated. As Larry said San Fran seem more accommodating. At least they gave you a lead on a watchmaker to help out, guess Rolex USA are just not interested in their heritage, pity.

[shaggy]

have to agree with you jdc
not sure why that is but it seems so

[CaveDiver]

Originally Posted by samt

if refer back to your part 1 story with the bezel pic...
why don't you try rotating the pic 90degs left and compare with a similar bezel.. the seconds marking on the bezel from 0-15 looks thicker than normal.
however im not sure if watches of that era came with this kind of bezel

edit:
i googled and found the your 'thick stroke' bezel to tally with other 5512s
but the dial on the rest of the 5512s shows '200m=660ft'..not '660ft=200m'
while the rest of the 5513s shows '660ft=200m'..

the bezel for 5513 is thinner strokes...
your's is 5512 right?
looks like a 5513 dial with a 5512 bezel?
anyone can clarify.. im kinda confused..
ref to here

Thanks for you input.
Your observations are correct with the dial. The dial does appear to be what is found on a 5513 watch. However, even when I was a kid I remember the dial being only a 2 line. That would have been the mid to late seventies. Either the watch came that way or the jeweler replaced it early at a service with a 5513 dial. Rolex does not seem to be consistent with the way they make watches so knows. To bad I can not ask my father about it.