GMT vs EXP

[TerryF]

Quick question for you guys n gals...

I've been looking around extensively at all the GMT threads, the differences between the various dials, inserts, bracelets etc

This then leads to looking at the difference between the Master and the Master II and the differences between them, timelines, colour inserts available and from when, bracelet compatibility etc.

Then I had a look at an EXPII, which I am seriously lusting after, and wondered what the difference was between the EXPII and the Master's. They look identical if you ignore the white vs black dial and metal colored bezel insert. It has the 24hr hand just as the Master does.

So whats the difference between the two?? And if its the same, practically, what was the purpose of bringing out an almost identical watch to the GMT Master??

Could the crystal, bezel, bezel inserts etc be interchangeable??

Appreciate your responses as always.

Ps. EXPII pic credit to Brit78 - hope you dont mind :)
Pepsi is mine.

[sakuraba]

If you are comparing apples to apples, ie same era GMT and Explorer IIs, the only difference is that the Explorer has a fixed bezel which would limit its usefulness by being able to tell civilian as well as military time. The GMT can easily track a second time zone simply by turning the bezel.

The 2 models that you pictured however, have 2 different movements. The GMT does not have the jump hour feature while the Explorer II has it. Also the GMT in your pic is a plexi, while the Explorer has the sapphire crystal. These are not interchangeable, but the GMT II would have a similar sapphire crystal.

The Explorer II never really had a bezel insert, so no, that will not be interchangeable.

My guess to Rolex's reason for releasing similar watches is Market Segmentation. I, for one, got suckered by this excellent marketing ploy, and was convinced I needed both watches.

Hope this helps.

[Singslinger]

Originally Posted by sakuraba

If you are comparing apples to apples, ie same era GMT and Explorer IIs, the only difference is that the Explorer has a fixed bezel which would limit its usefulness by being able to tell civilian as well as military time. The GMT can easily track a second time zone simply by turning the bezel.

The 2 models that you pictured however, have 2 different movements. The GMT does not have the jump hour feature while the Explorer II has it. Also the GMT in your pic is a plexi, while the Explorer has the sapphire crystal. These are not interchangeable, but the GMT II would have a similar sapphire crystal.

The Explorer II never really had a bezel insert, so no, that will not be interchangeable.

My guess to Rolex's reason for releasing similar watches is Market Segmentation. I, for one, got suckered by this excellent marketing ploy, and was convinced I needed both watches.

Hope this helps.

x2 - especially the part about market segmentation and being suckered into buying both watches!!

[Cru Jones]

Don't forget the benefit the fixed bezel provides to cave explorers!

(LOL....not that I am drinking Rolex's kool-aid.....I mean, how many spelunkers are there?)

[TerryF]

Originally Posted by sakuraba

If you are comparing apples to apples, ie same era GMT and Explorer IIs, the only difference is that the Explorer has a fixed bezel which would limit its usefulness by being able to tell civilian as well as military time. The GMT can easily track a second time zone simply by turning the bezel.

The 2 models that you pictured however, have 2 different movements. The GMT does not have the jump hour feature while the Explorer II has it. Also the GMT in your pic is a plexi, while the Explorer has the sapphire crystal. These are not interchangeable, but the GMT II would have a similar sapphire crystal.

The Explorer II never really had a bezel insert, so no, that will not be interchangeable.

My guess to Rolex's reason for releasing similar watches is Market Segmentation. I, for one, got suckered by this excellent marketing ploy, and was convinced I needed both watches.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Sakubara - didn't know the EXP had a solid bezel, but this doesnt really change much unless you want to check two different time zones. Military time will be available as will civvy time.

The pics were for illustration purposes - I understand the plexi vs saphire crystal etc.

I dont think its as much to do with being suckered into thinking you need both as to actually liking the all SS with white dial which is what I find so appealing.

[petespendthrift]

The (non ceramic) GMT2 and the Exp2 are near identical. Same bracelet, case, case back, crystal, crown, movement.

The only difference are the dial colour options and the fixed steel bezel on the Exp2. In theory it would be possible to convert the Exp2 to a GMT or vice versa by swapping the crystal retaining ring (underneath the bezel) and fitting on the other bezel type. On a similar note the Sub also uses the same case and crystal but the thicker case back gives it a higher profile.

In terms of usability, when considering the versions with the jump hour hand, the fixed bezel offers little extra - just the ability to temporarily refer to a third time zone (or a second one quickly without adjusting the crown). Both make great regular traveller watches but for worldwide use the less recognisable appearance (and therefore lower chance of being robbed) means the Exp2 suits me better. Also I can use basic mental arithmetic to add or subtract some hours for a temporary third timezone easily enough on the odd occasion I need to.

On the other hand the original Exp2 without the jump hour hand feature is pretty useless to me and any travellers. In Europe 24 hour time is commonplace (train stations, oven clocks, alarm clocks etc.) so not confusing to us as it might be to some of our American cousins. So in Europe this watch really would only have been any use to Cave explorers (or other night/day awareness challenged people) - perhaps the reason it did not sell well.

[TerryF]

Thanks Pete - exactly the kind of info I was after :)

So how would the GMT I and EXP I compare? Any ideas?

Thanks

[petespendthrift]

My last post might have been confusing - I meant to say "the moveable bezel offers little extra...".

The GMT-1 used the same movement as the original Exp2 (ie. no jump hour hand). The 24h hand therefore shows the 24 hour equivalent of whatever the normal hands are set to. However, as the bezel can be moved you can refer to a second timezone as long as you know the hours difference from the 12 hour hand and set it on the bezel. You also get a quickset date on this movement which some prefer to the jump hour version of the movement which is commonly referred to as "semi-quickset". (The semi-quickset requires two full 12 hour rotations of the normal hour hand to jump the date backwards or forwards once which takes longer - one full turn of the crown advances or turns back the hour hand by 5 or 8 hours). In my opinion the minor inconvenience of the semi-quickset's slower date setting is more than made up for by the convenience of the jump hour hand if you are a regular timezone changer and as long as you wear the watch everyday (so avoiding it winding down for a few days) it will never be an issue.

The Exp-1 has standard watch features - no date and no second timezone. If you can live with time only there is an advantage here if you regularly take the watch off for more than a couple of days at a time (the limit of the power reserve) as it is very quick and easy to set the correct time after winding it back up.

All the movements mentioned are very robust, reliable and accurate. The newer watches may have a slight advantage in accuracy.

[Tools]

Because of the bezel, the GMT is relatively fragile as compared to the Exp II and it's all stainless construction.. If you are active and adventurous, the Exp II is the watch for you........ Yes, I did learn this the expensive hard way and now have an Exp II to compliment my GMT..

As for the Exp I, it's a rugged dependable go anywhere watch. It is 36mm as compared to the other 40mm watches, although the others are mostly bezel and the actual dial is the same.. many have no use for the additional hand on the 4-hand watches.

Now - the new Explorer 39 released this year will be stiff competition for these others, in my opinion...

[Dan Pierce]

Both are great watches but as a self confessed bezel fiddler I'd have to go with the GMT.
dP

[CKLinLA]

The 'slope' of the Expy II bezel, makes it feel/wear 'thinner', despite both having nearly identical dimensions. "Most comfortable" Rolex sport watch is the often mentioned remark by Expy owners. You should try them out on your wrist to decide for yourself.

It sounds like you like the Expy II white, if thats the case you might want to wait till next year and the widely expected launch of the new version Expy II with the revived Orange Hand. It looks great on white from the photos IMHO, and more different from the GMT.

BTW, the older Explorer II (the 1655s) did not have a second time zone function - it was more specifically specologically focused ... ... Anyway, adding the GMT's 2nd time zone functionality, since there was already a 24 hour bezel, was a logical decision when they last updated the watch - which ended up making them very similar.

[cks]

Originally Posted by Tools

... Because of the bezel, the GMT is relatively fragile as compared to the Exp II and it's all stainless construction.. If you are active and adventurous, the Exp II is the watch for you.....

I agree - and not just because of the name. Although initially attracted to the great-looking IIc, my next Rolex is likely to be one Explorer or the other. Spending a lot of time in a similar environment to Larry cost me a bezel and insert as well as an acrylic or three. Fixed bezel and low profile sapphire tick all my boxes. The 4th hand will be a bonus too on the road. Like L says... "a rugged dependable go anywhere watch".

cks

[TerryF]

So it looks as if an Explorer I or II will fit my bill.

Thanks guys, very helpful indeed.

[Prince Tudor]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

Both are great watches but as a self confessed bezel fiddler I'd have to go with the GMT.
dP

Bezel fiddler
We have to make it an official term
Maybe a sig. pic is required.

[Kanger]

"I, for one, got suckered by this excellent marketing ploy, and was convinced I needed both watches."

[Mockingbird]

Exp. II bezel is FIXED, not bidirectional like the GMT II's is. The rotating bezel is used to track a third timezone.

Another point, the EXP II's bezel slopes downward, and it's crystal project slightly higher above the bezel.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by kanger

"I, for one, got suckered by this excellent marketing ploy, and was convinced I needed both watches."

Natch...............

In Rolex World, you're supposed to be using the correct watch for the event or application...................


I'm pretty sure that I need 'em all............

[landeriv]

I am a proud owner of an Exp II Black for a little over a month now and early this week I walked into this AD (Rolex boutique) that had a Coke and Pepsi GMT on display, both BNIB and M serial... my stomach started churning!

I always wanted a Pepsi GMT but was thinking of getting it in a year or so, to space out my purchases and enjoy the Expy in the meantime. However, after taking into account that this model has been discontinued and they will only get rarer and more expensive, especially for the ones with the 3186 movement, I pulled the trigger. It even has the dial with the "boxed" roman numeral II which looks pretty cool.

They compliment each other very well. The Expy will be my daily wearer though, the GMT is resting in the safe at the moment... until I get over the shock of parting with so much cash!

[mcaparso]

Do all M serial number expy2s have the 3186 movement? Or could it still have the 3185?

[TerryF]

From what I understand, most still have the 3185.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by mcaparso

Do all M serial number expy2s have the 3186 movement? Or could it still have the 3185?

There is no way for us to know that........ I would say that it is unlikely to be the case.........

[ikoiko]

I have a M series with the 3186 movement. Puchased april 2009

[glimmer]

I just recently got an Exp II to compliment my GMT II. I asked myself whether it was justified to get a watch with the same complication/movement instead of getting a diver. In the end the design of the bezel and the white dial won me over.