Need Some Objective Opinions On A Recent Purchase

[Dean F]

Guys,

I'd like to get some opinions about this watches' case, and even its overall condition. Personally I'm disappointed with the case and overall condition. The seller provided me with very poor quality photos for inspection prior to purchase and is adamant that the watch is in excellent condition for its age. The case is really banged up as far as I'm concerned, I've done a decent job of catching that damage in these photos. The bezel ring is also beat up and don't even get me started about the bracelet, at least its salvageable.

What I'd like to accomplish with this post is to get some condition opinions so I can route the seller to this thread and he/she can read the comments to see I'm not alone in my assessment of the case. If you feel the case is in excellent condition for its age, feel free to speak your mind.

Thanks for your help,

Dean

[moviefreak]

Crystal and dial look amazingly good... case is ok and nothing a good polish wont fix... I would like to see a picture of the clasp closed in the bracelet.. hold the watch from the case so the bracelet is horizontal and take a picture to see how much it bends.
I do not know how old is it.. but all the imperfections are at very close range.. a good polish will make it look like new probably...

[Nicko]

I would need to see his description of the watch before I give you my opinion. Vintage is NOT going to look new, just so you know. If you want blemish free, buy new or a figure in a service cost when you are buying the watch. New is new, vintage is not. I do agree a good buffing and it will look new again.

[kyle L]

If you aren't ok with the dings and dents, don't purchase it then. I'm sure you can find one in better condition. A service and a polishing would remove those scratches and dents, but by doing so you are removing metal and a piece of the case.

[PeteNYC13]

Did you buy it from TRF or off of ebay? (or another site)

-Pete

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by kyle L

If you aren't ok with the dings and dents, don't purchase it then. I'm sure you can find one in better condition. A service and a polishing would remove those scratches and dents, but by doing so you are removing metal and a piece of the case.

I think he's already bought it Kyle...

[kyle L]

Originally Posted by Nicko

I think he's already bought it Kyle...

Oh...

I guess the only route is either you can take it up with the seller for a refund, or you can get it serviced. Honestly I think the sides of the case are tolerable, just take a Cape Cod and buff it out a little, it should look ok.

[Dean F]

Correct it was already purchased, and barring the low res photos the seller is of the opinion the watch is mint. I've purchased other vintage watches (this one is circa 1991 not that vintage) and they've been in better condition. That ding in the case is deep, I personally would never consider that case to be in excellent/mint condition which are the words used to describe it. The bezel ring is also beat up. If I send it off to RSC they're probably going to recommend replacing the bezel ring at least, I was factoring in a service visit, but not replacement parts, price wise I paid top $$$$ for this watch, which was also supposed to include its papers (shown in the original photos) but they didn't arrive for some reason either, so I've got a banged up watch with no papers at a premium price. And yes the transaction started on ebay, but was completed after the auction listing (convenient for the seller, not so for me)

[TempoKing]

This is one great looking Tudor if you ask me...
I think my problem would have been (with the seller) about the papers, if he said there were... and then you did not receive them (?)
Not with the condition.

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by Dean F

Correct it was already purchased, and barring the low res photos the seller is of the opinion the watch is mint. I've purchased other vintage watches (this one is circa 1991 not that vintage) and they've been in better condition. That ding in the case is deep, I personally would never consider that case to be in excellent/mint condition which are the words used to describe it. The bezel ring is also beat up. If I send it off to RSC they're probably going to recommend replacing the bezel ring at least, I was factoring in a service visit, but not replacement parts, price wise I paid top $$$$ for this watch, which was also supposed to include its papers (shown in the original photos) but they didn't arrive for some reason either, so I've got a banged up watch with no papers at a premium price. And yes the transaction started on ebay, but was completed after the auction listing (convenient for the seller, not so for me)

Dean,

I suggest you post the entire description of the watch with photos of you want an honest opinion on whether he misrepresented the watch or not. We need to see all the evidence, not just one side. BTW, the watch doesn't look bad at all....


Did you buy it off of FleaBay??

[moviefreak]

Originally Posted by Dean F

...so I've got a banged up watch with no papers at a premium price. And yes the transaction started on ebay, but was completed after the auction listing (convenient for the seller, not so for me)

Ask the seller to send you the papers...

"After the auction listing".. so you ended up buying outside of the bay?... if that is the case.. you are still protected by PayPal (tell me you paid using Paypal..) if paypal was used.. call them and open a dispute claiming the watch was not as described... this needs to be done at least 60 days from the date you paid.
If you did not used paypal.. you are out of luck...

Yeah.. please post the entire description from the seller, so we can check it out...

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by moviefreak

Ask the seller to send you the papers...

"After the auction listing".. so you ended up buying outside of the bay?... if that is the case.. you are still protected by PayPal (tell me you paid using Paypal..) if paypal was used.. call them and open a dispute claiming the watch was not as described... this needs to be done at least 60 days from the date you paid.
If you did not used paypal.. you are out of luck...

Yeah.. please post the entire description from the seller, so we can check it out...

Not as described claims are always settled in the seller's favor. It's a waste of time. And if you bought outside of ebay they you are screwed. The seller takes the money from his account ASAP and then good luck getting anything back. eBay sucks the big one pure and simple, they are rats out to squeeze any and all money and doesn't care about anyone.

[Dean F]

Originally Posted by TempoKing

This is one great looking Tudor if you ask me...
I think my problem would have been (with the seller) about the papers, if he said there were... and then you did not receive them (?)

Correct, the papers (at least the wallet) was visible in the auction and it was listed as "Box & Papers". At the same time I picked this up I also got a 79170 and that watch is MINT, they both arrived yesterday and comparing the two (the 79160 was more expensive) the 79170 blows the 79160 away by a mile. The seller's wife called me after I contacted her regarding the paperwork and the conversation turned into one of condition and the paperwork absence was never addressed. They are debating if a refund is appropriate, which is what I asked for because we're so far off on condition that I don't think we could agree on a fair market price.

[moviefreak]

Originally Posted by Nicko

Not as described claims are always settled in the seller's favor. It's a waste of time. And if you bought outside of ebay they you are screwed. The seller takes the money from his account ASAP and then good luck getting anything back. eBay sucks the big one pure and simple, they are rats out to squeeze any and all money and doesn't care about anyone.

I just won a claim to an international seller.... not as described.. I had to send paperwork. and note on the description of the seller where I thought the seller had misrepresented the item.. a few days later PayPal sent me the money... but it was an ebay transaction.
I did called paypal and they said they did cover everything too. And the money was already on the sellers account.. was not being held by Paypal..
I wasted a few hours on the claim.. but it was all good at the end..

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by moviefreak

I just won a claim to an international seller.... not as described.. I had to send paperwork. and note on the description of the seller where I thought the seller had misrepresented the item.. a few days later PayPal sent me the money... but it was an ebay transaction.
I did called paypal and they said they did cover everything too. And the money was already on the sellers account.. was not being held by Paypal..
I wasted a few hours on the claim.. but it was all good at the end..

Good to know...They rejected mine regarding the Tudor and it took them a matter of 45 minutes !

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by Dean F

Correct, the papers (at least the wallet) was visible in the auction and it was listed as "Box & Papers". At the same time I picked this up I also got a 79170 and that watch is MINT, they both arrived yesterday and comparing the two (the 79160 was more expensive) the 79170 blows the 79160 away by a mile. The seller's wife called me after I contacted her regarding the paperwork and the conversation turned into one of condition and the paperwork absence was never addressed. They are debating if a refund is appropriate, which is what I asked for because we're so far off on condition that I don't think we could agree on a fair market price.

For the love of God man...Post the auction, will ya? You post all this without letting us look at the other guys description. Do you want an honest non-biased opinion or do you only want to hear what you want to here?

[Dean F]

Naturally I paid by wire ha ha. I've gotten comfortable with the watch community I guess :( Regardless I don't want it to come to asking someone to get my money back for me, I just want to feel that what I'm asking for quality level is reasonable, I actually figured you guys would be like "that case is TRASHED" I'm surprised its look upon this favorably. I'll post photos of the 79170 I bought after work, that watch is amazing.

Nicko,
The auction itself had very minimal wording and very poor photos, most of the correspondence on condition occurred via email and phone calls. For reference sake, here's the listing(s)
First listing at $5995: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=220577092306
(it says sold but it was a bogus bid)
And the listing when I purchased it:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

For what its worth, which all adds up to matter to me, despite agreeing to my offered price they rode the auction out all the way to end then asked me to pay, via wire - which I obliged.

[CKLinLA]

If the dent on the case side is deep enough that it cannot be polished off
without removing too much material, it cannot be claimed to be mint, or even
excellent condition. The focus in your pic is sharp on the dial, but a little soft
on the outer bezel edges. It looks to me like there may be dents at the 60,
140-150 and 200-225 marks. Is this true? Edge dents could be hard (or
impossible?) to restore. But, I still think watch can look very good, and near
mint with a little work.

If it was my transaction, my bigger concern would be lack of the promised
paperwork. BTW, I assume you have checked the serial number and the watch
and am satisfied it is authentic/consistent.

[Dean F]

Originally Posted by CKLinLA

If the dent on the case side is deep enough that it cannot be polished off
without removing too much material, it cannot be claimed to be mint, or even
excellent condition. The focus in your pic is sharp on the dial, but a little soft
on the outer bezel edges. It looks to me like there may be dents at the 60,
140-150 and 200-225 marks. Is this true? Edge dents could be hard (or
impossible?) to restore.

However, if it was my transaction, my bigger concern would be lack of the
promised paperwork. BTW, I assume you have checked the serial number and
have otherwise also checked out the watch as having authentic parts.

The outter edge of the bezel is pretty banged up yes. Those were the first high res macro photos I've ever taken, will practice more.

RE: No I have not done anything to the watch, it just arrived yesterday and I didn't want to be accused of anything so I've left it as a visual inspection only. Although I may pop the bracelet to check the SN after work this evening.

[Nicko]

Edited Double post...

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by Dean F

Naturally I paid by wire ha ha. I've gotten comfortable with the watch community I guess :( Regardless I don't want it to come to asking someone to get my money back for me, I just want to feel that what I'm asking for quality level is reasonable, I actually figured you guys would be like "that case is TRASHED" I'm surprised its look upon this favorably. I'll post photos of the 79170 I bought after work, that watch is amazing.

Nicko,
The auction itself had very minimal wording and very poor photos, most of the correspondence on condition occurred via email and phone calls. For reference sake, here's the listing(s)
First listing at $5995: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=220577092306
(it says sold but it was a bogus bid)
And the listing when I purchased it:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

For what its worth, which all adds up to matter to me, despite agreeing to my offered price they rode the auction out all the way to end then asked me to pay, via wire - which I obliged.

Well, here's my opinion....

There is nothing you can do..You bid on an auction that you shouldn't have. No information was given on the auction and for a good reason, later he can claim it was exactly as described since he freaking didn't describe ANYTHING! Shitty small pictures and you paid by wire!!!??

As for phone promises, well you know what you can do with those now don't ya'? Not worth the price of the call....

Well, I learned and I guess it's your turn. Never buy on eBay. NEVER! You are stuck with the watch and the buyer is in the clear because he really doesn't say anything about the watch. He doesn't any certain kind of papers in the listing either., so maybe it's the little instruction booklet. The only paper I see is some sort of an instruction card. Man, that's a lot of money to be screwing around with. Reminds me of the song "Blinded by the Light" Don't have any more advice for you.

[Dean F]

Very true Niko, Maybe I wanted it a little too bad to actually reality check the situation. Ebay is give or take though, the 79170 I got was beautiful and actually better than expected. In the end I broke my own rules and it stings, but hopefully they'll step up and take it back, if not I'll decide what action I need to take if any or just let it go and have Rolex SF go through the watch and replace the damaged bezel and possibly the case.

[BMAN8]

Dean: I'd be vexed with this deal, too. Admittedly there was minimal description of the watch. Only "ORIGINAL ROLEX TUDOR WITH BOX AND PAPERS".

I hope you can get a refund.

[Renoir]

It's always tough buying sight unseen on the internet, it's really a gamble. I guess you and the seller didn't discuss an inspection/approval period....a seller usually wouldn't under describe an item and take a chance.

If the seller is a person of their word, they should offer a refund as it was poorly desrcribed.

If not, just send it out for service and a polish, and chalk it up to experience.

Enjoy your beautiful Tudor!

[Dean F]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I'll start another thread with the photos of the 79170 that watch is a thing of beauty.

[PeteNYC13]

Sorry to read the entire thread, not sure if you can do anything...Sounds a bit like the seller knows that he may have "gotten away with one" and isn't likely to resolve this in your favor - IMO.

Good luck and keep us posted.

-Pete

[Alan111]

Originally Posted by Dean F

Naturally I paid by wire ha ha. I've gotten comfortable with the watch community I guess :( Regardless I don't want it to come to asking someone to get my money back for me, I just want to feel that what I'm asking for quality level is reasonable, I actually figured you guys would be like "that case is TRASHED" I'm surprised its look upon this favorably. I'll post photos of the 79170 I bought after work, that watch is amazing.

Nicko,
The auction itself had very minimal wording and very poor photos, most of the correspondence on condition occurred via email and phone calls. For reference sake, here's the listing(s)
First listing at $5995: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=220577092306
(it says sold but it was a bogus bid)
And the listing when I purchased it:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

For what its worth, which all adds up to matter to me, despite agreeing to my offered price they rode the auction out all the way to end then asked me to pay, via wire - which I obliged.

Originally Posted by Ebay Listing

"ORIGINAL ROLEX TUDOR WITH BOX AND PAPERS"

Wow that's some description there? And you paid $5k with a description like that???
You know,there's a bridge located on the East River here in New York that I'd like to show you... you may be interested in purchasing it...



:)

[Nicko]

Wow that's some description there? And you paid $5k with a description like that???
You know,there's a bridge located on the East River here in New York that I'd like to show you... you may be interested in purchasing it...

He did say "Objective" opinions, have you got any?

[TurboWatch]

but $5K w/o paper and this condition is a bit too high imho.

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by TurboWatch

but $5K w/o paper and this condition is a bit too high imho.

I think the condition's fine, the OP bought the watch with hardly no description and now is unhappy because the watch doesn't look like new. He's lucky he got anything IMO. The watch is in fairly good shape, could it be better? Yes, but used is used. The buyer should have asked for better pictures as the ones on the listing were of the small type. You can't go off half cocked with this type of purchase unless you are willing and can afford to loose your investment.

My advice is stay the F--K away from eBay, and unless eBay starts taking some responsibility for the way listings are submitted then people should boycott them at all costs. Hell, I sold my second car the other day on a local website and they had more scrutiny than eBay does. The had to approve my listing and make sure the description was clear as well as the photos. A great service. eBay is a dumping point for people's shit and a haven for scam artists. I say close them down tomorrow, but as long as people keep buying and eBay keeps getting paid I guess that's all that matters.