Random serial numbers- for or against, and why?

[Roley]

Who is in favor or against the new random serial numbers, and why?

IMO....This may be the reason why Rolex has started with the random serial numbers. Now they can push older stock, and totally confuse the customer. I personally don't like it. ....Now the age of a NEW watch, from an AD will have to be determined by your receipt, and purchase date. Sorry..for being so harsh, but I can't stand this system change.

[nickriebe]

I think there will be "some way" to decipher them as with the old system... if not now, in the future hopefully. Not knowing when your watch was manufactured is rediculous! That way, you know how long its been sitting at the AD in new condition. It would be like buying a "New car" only to find out it is a 2008 that is considered new because it was never purchased... BS!

[The GMT Master]

For them - I've never liked serial number hysteria. The guarantee card is proof enough for me, thanks

[sakuraba]

I'm with Nick on this one.

IMO it's only a matter of time until some WIS cracks the code. Knowing the Swiss, there is some method to the madness.

[Roley]

Originally Posted by nickriebe

I think there will be "some way" to decipher them as with the old system... if not now, in the future hopefully. Not knowing when your watch was manufactured is rediculous! That way, you know how long its been sitting at the AD in new condition. It would be like buying a "New car" only to find out it is a 2008 that is considered new because it was never purchased... BS!

Well you will know that the production date was 2010 and after. (Not acceptable for a collector), IMO.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

For them - I've never liked serial number hysteria. The guarantee card is proof enough for me, thanks

Have to agree and lets get rid of this silly case date nonsense it was only a Internet code anyway.And just a rough indication when a case was stamped and not necessarily when a fully assembled watch for shipment to AD for sale.Same for the clasp codes its a clasp code nothing more nothing less just a code clasps don't go off and have no sell by date.And today Rolex must make millions of them and all the same in the older type clasp except for a few letters on the clasp.And cannot think of any other high end brand where all the this hysteria in must have the latest case date stamp.

[chris russell]

to obscure the true age of product in stock. As I have mentioned a couple times before on this forum, this means that in the long run you could be offered a watch that is 2, 3 or more years old, (and of course 2, 3 or more price-increases old), and quoted new pricing on it. Where is the advantage to you, the customer who is shelling out the dinero, in that?

IF there is no actual change to the product specification in that time, (which in fact is unlikely since Rolex regularly changes hands, dials, movements, etc., during production of the same model), then I might not have a problem buying one that has been around for a year or three. BUT I sure as hell don't want the price to be based on the CURRENT production year! Where is the value added that would justify that while the product has been sitting on the shelf with its lubricants aging?

As I have also mentioned I'm not even sure it's legal, at least in North America, for Rolex to make the production dates of its products unavailable or undecipherable to the customer. I shall have to investigate that one. I'm a manufacturer of high-end consumer products, and I know it would not be legal for me.

[TheDude]

Well, the new policy means that in the future, pieces will need to have real provenance rather than "provenance through deduction". If a collector wants to know the year, he'll need to see the papers... in other words -real provenance-.

We won't be able to reason that "this watch is okay because the condition, or feature, or bit is period accurate" for the SN in question.


Or... perhaps it is reasonable to assume that Rolex is keeping good records now in the digital age. Perhaps Rolex will be able to confirm 100% of SN queries about watches built from 2010 on...

[mike]

Originally Posted by TheDude

Well, the new policy means that in the future, pieces will need to have real provenance rather than "provenance through deduction". If a collector wants to know the year, he'll need to see the papers... in other words -real provenance-.

We won't be able to reason that "this watch is okay because the condition, or feature, or bit is period accurate" for the SN in question.


Or... perhaps it is reasonable to assume that Rolex is keeping good records now in the digital age. Perhaps Rolex will be able to confirm 100% of SN queries about watches built from 2010 on...

And there in lies the problem for the next generation of collector.

[chris russell]

Originally Posted by padi56

Have to agree and lets get rid of this silly case date nonsense it was only a Internet code anyway. And cannot think of any other high end brand where all the this hysteria in must have the latest case date stamp.

turned out to have been in stock on the dealer's shelf for five years, (VERY possible), and its timing started deteriorating two days after the warranty expired showing it needed a full service right away?

What if the price had gone up by 35% during the time it was sitting on the shelf, and thus you paid MORE than its original MSRP, rather than getting the 'discount' you thought you bargained for?

And what if, unbeknownst to you, Rolex had in the time since it was made, included a small change in the dial or the movement that was considered desirable by the Rolex community, and that reduced the value of your 'new' five-year-old watch by 30 or 40%?

Would you still be completely OK with it all?

[rolexsubdate]

random serial numbers show an unorganized approach and lack of a systematic approach .....

How are they protecting against 2 watches unwitingly have the same random# assigned to them ....

What random# generatotr are they using???

[jcherskine]

I would be against random serial numbers for reasons already stated.
Also, I was contacted by a new member of TRF who had bought a "brand new" Rolex in February 2010.
This Rolex had an M serial number, meaning it had probably sat around for 3 years, before being purchased. Hence the reason I questioned why it was being sold as "brand new"
At least the present method allows for accuracy, where the age of the watch is in question.

[nauticajoe]

Not a fan of the random serials.

As many have mentioned, its another way for both Rolex & the AD to push the old inventory.

[Tools]

I agree with Padi...

The idea that a watch has been sitting for some amount of time, and is, therefore, less desireable than another is ludicrous, or at the very least, silly..

No other watchmaker on the planet has to put up with the silliness about "how old is your watch", or even more recently "What series is your Rolex?".. as if one number is less worthy than another..

If you want certain "features" in your watch, then buy the features, not a number.......

[MagedMS]

The advantage of Rnd SN. is for Rolex and its dealers..
No advantage for the user (who pays money..) So my opinion is

ROLEX,,, you have to give us some sort of DECODING the new Rnd SN.

[springbar]

Originally Posted by chris russell

What if the price had gone up by 35% during the time it was sitting on the shelf, and thus you paid MORE than its original MSRP, rather than getting the 'discount' you thought you bargained for?

A price hike is a price hike. Why should or would existing inventory be exempt?

I have purchased a watch for a price that, after discount, still exceeded its MSRP when it first went in the case. If I'd wanted the old price I should have bought it five years ago.

Everything works that way.

[TempoKing]

As a seller I love the new system !

As a buyer (in a few years) I will not know how old is the watch that I am buying
if it was sold with an open warranty (pre-owned) or if it has been in stock for 6 years.
Definately a problem when the Rolex you want is of high value.

On the other hand, I have never asked how old is a Patek 5070,
I am just glad to have found it...funny how we condition our minds.

[springbar]

Originally Posted by rolexsubdate

random serial numbers show an unorganized approach and lack of a systematic approach .....

How are they protecting against 2 watches unwitingly have the same random# assigned to them ....

What random# generatotr are they using???

This is an easily solved problem. Rolex will have either

1) come up with a pseudorandom algorithm designed not to repeat (and that could even be re-seeded periodically if they wanted to throw off the codebreakers), or

2) taken a serial list of millions of numbers and randomized their order, like shuffling a deck of cards, and is going down the list, or

3) both.

Good luck cracking the code if it's the second case.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Chris russell

turned out to have been in stock on the dealer's shelf for five years, (VERY possible), and its timing started deteriorating two days after the warranty expired showing it needed a full service right away?

What if the price had gone up by 35% during the time it was sitting on the shelf, and thus you paid MORE than its original MSRP, rather than getting the 'discount' you thought you bargained for?

And what if, unbeknownst to you, Rolex had in the time since it was made, included a small change in the dial or the movement that was considered desirable by the Rolex community, and that reduced the value of your 'new' five-year-old watch by 30 or 40%?

Would you still be completely OK with it all?

Lets be perfectly honest here Chris most of the Rolex watches especially sports types are not long enough at ADs to gather dust most are gone as soon as AD gets them in.Its only the slower moving models might be at ADs a bit longer,I wonder if brands like Patek get this silly case date nonsense.And after being around Rolex watches for over 30 years most Rolex watches change little in decades.Rolex watches will always command a high resale value no matter what the case date stamp.And IMHO owning Rolex watches is not all about price,its about owning one of the finest mechanical watches made today.

[TheDude]

I actually think it is more of an anti-counterfeit or anti-frankenwatch initiative.


It should make it far harder to move a special collectible in the future without real provenance.


Let's present a hypothetical example. Let's say the GMT-IIc goes from green to red next year, and the greens become highly collectible at some point in the future. At that point, it would become difficult to determine if a Z, M, V, etc... is from pre-2010, or randomly assigned after 2010. It would be really hard to tell if a lucky recipient of a Z, M, V, etc... "red" GMT put a green dial and handset in.

Provenance would be required to back up the increased value of any collectible model such as this.

[tgoose1]

Makes perfect sense for Rolex, and eliminates sales confusion and inventory shuffling at the AD. Remember, Rolex is a manufacturer who's sells new product thru authorized Rolex retail dealers. Anything impeding the supply chain ultimately slows business revenue back to the home base.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by TheDude

I actually think it is more of an anti-counterfeit or anti-frankenwatch initiative.


It should make it far harder to move a special collectible in the future without real provenance.


Let's present a hypothetical example. Let's say the GMT-IIc goes from green to red next year, and the greens become highly collectible at some point in the future. At that point, it would become difficult to determine if a Z, M, V, etc... is from pre-2010, or randomly assigned after 2010. It would be really hard to tell if a lucky recipient of a Z, M, V, etc... "red" GMT put a green dial and handset in.

Provenance would be required to back up the increased value of any collectible model such as this.

Well first would doubt if any modern day Rolex will become collectible far too many around.Perhaps in 30 odd years a few modem day Rolex will command perhaps a slight premium price no matter what the case stamp.When I buy a watch I don't buy a case stamp I buy the watch because I want too.When you go and buy watches like Patek you are not bothered by the stupid case nonsense you buy the watch.

[Speed]

As a relatively new WIS ( < 2 years ) I have purchased most of my watches used.

I like the series designations because they help ID certain features - design or otherwise. I am not as concened about the NOS issue but I like knowing as much about a watch as possible.

At the end if the day, I am not in favor of the random serials

[George Ab]

I was totally against until I started reading this thread. Maybe this isn't that big of deal.

[psv]

It is clear and obvious that random serial numbers only serve to benefit Rolex and their AD's. It is a way to obscure manufacturing date for all the reasons stated above.

Rolex now makes over 700,000 watches per year and had its biggest slump in sales ever last year with the near collapse of the global economy. Random serial numbers is a way for them to extend the shelf life of their products, plain and simple.

There isn't a single advantage for the consumers as far as I can think of.

I think it is a crappy move of Rolex but that is what happens when you can big and fat, and dominate a market.

[JJ Irani]

I have no problem with the new serial number system.

The only drawback I see is perhaps 10~12 years down the line when someone wishes to pick up a used Rolex, I think he has a right to know the approx. year of manufacture. With this new numbering, there's no way of ascertaining that.

Just like if you are picking up a used car, you have a right to know the car's year of manufacture, I think the same applies to a watch or any other mechanical gadget for that matter.

JJ

[Rolesor]

I asked my AD and they made it seem like a simple call to Rolex can date your watch..

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by Rolesor

I asked my AD and they made it seem like a simple call to Rolex can date your watch..

Problem with that is not everyone has excess to a phonecall to Rolex. I live in NZ and can never possibly call Rolex in Geneva for a reply.

JJ

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by Rolesor

I asked my AD and they made it seem like a simple call to Rolex can date your watch..

Exactly. I hope that in this day and age, Rolex will be more helpful and we won't be shooting in the dark with these random numbers.

[Saxon007]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

The only drawback I see is perhaps 10~12 years down the line when someone wishes to pick up a used Rolex, I think he has a right to know the approx. year of manufacture. With this new numbering, there's no way of ascertaining that.

I think on the used market the "random" serial numbers will increase the demand for watches with original paperwork since the warranty card can be used to date when the watch was sold. In other words, watches with box and papers will carry a higher premium than they do currently.

Personally, I don't care what the serial number says as long as the watch is genuine.