Side by side pics of a 1680 red with a DRSD?

[cruvon]

Hi guys, just wanted to see how different a DRSD would look when kept side by side to a 1680 red. Any side by side top and case side views and wrist shots to judge size and looks appreciated.
Unfortunately no Burlington Arcade here in Sydney to go try that out:)

[DiamondJack]

Sorry no pics San, but I was actually in Burlington Arcade on Saturday morning.

I tried on one of the DRSD's in the Vintage Watch Company (the one with all the Rolex's with the dates beside them) and was quite surprised how normal sized it was. Probably just a fraction larger than my red but not noticibly so and definitely a good wearable size - for me anyway.

I was chatting to the owner/manager (not sure which) on prices generally and clearly they price at the very top end due to location and overheads etc plus they give a 2 year guarantee and also only service watches they sell.

But he was quite adamant that he sees far more DRSD's than red subs and felt the red sub was much more desirable and in his words "a rarer" watch. indeed, he had 4 DRSD's in stock and there was another in David Duggan's shop also in BA. But only one red sub in the whole of BA as far as I could see. And yet the market currently prices them quite a bit above most red subs.

I haven't checked into the numbers of DRSD's produced compared to red subs but maybe someone can comment on the price differential between the two.

[HL65]

There is a big difference between DRSD's and one can't categorize them as one group. The same holds true for red subs. There are plenty of Mk4 + DRSD's around but finding a mint Mk3 or earlier not an easy task. The same holds true for red subs- plenty of FF ones out there but finding mint Mk1's to 3 MF not so easy. Again in this vintage world everything comes down to specific references and variations as well as condition IMHO...

[DiamondJack]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

There is a big difference between DRSD's and one can't categorize them as one group. The same holds true for red subs. There are plenty of Mk4 + DRSD's around but finding a mint Mk3 or earlier not an easy task. The same holds true for red subs- plenty of FF ones out there but finding mint Mk1's to 3 MF not so easy. Again in this vintage world everything comes down to specific references and variations as well as condition IMHO...

You're absolutely right Ken and I think these were Mark IV's with the more defined O in the Rolex Coronet and D of Dweller directly above the middle R of SUBMARINER so more common than an earlier DRSDs. But still priced well above (perhaps 50% more) than a similar condition Mark V closed 6 FF Red he also had available (neither had B or P).

I was just wondering why the big price differential given the guy in the shop says he sees far more late serial DRSD's than late red subs in an average trading year. He thought it was just market demand that priced them above a more common red sub so I was just checking if anyone had tracked prices and seen a divergence in recent years or knew of the DRSD production numbers perhaps making them rarer?

[HL65]

Steve- demand has always priced them well above red subs. I remember in 08' at peak Mk4 DRSDs selling for $48k believe it or not. I can't comment on production numbers though....

[Frogman4me]

On this site alone I seem to see someone getting a new red sub almost every week. Seems to be the introduction vintage watch for many as the red writing is just too much to resist. We see "my new" DRSD thread maybe 1-10 red subs. I am sure the market has adjusted accordingly and this is reason DRSD are more costly than Reds is simply there are less of them. I don't think at anytime in History Rolex sold more Seadwellers than Submariners. The standard Sub is the household name watch.

From my personal experience finding an MKIV DRSD was very difficult and similar to finding a MF red sub. These two references are closer in pricing than any FF vs MKIV DRSD.

[HL65]

Agree completely David! Also- finding one and finding one in pristine mint condition are two entirely different things!! I have seen plenty of mediocre ones and very few pristine examples like yours and John's.

[Frogman4me]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Agree completely David! Also- finding one and finding one in pristine mint condition are two entirely different things!! I have seen plenty of mediocre ones and very few pristine examples like yours and John's.

Like you taught me Ken, condition is Key

[HL65]

No doubt David!!

[ryan5446]

here is one picture I took a long time ago.

[HL65]

Very nice Steve!!

[Beaumont Miller II]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

There is a big difference between DRSD's and one can't categorize them as one group. The same holds true for red subs. There are plenty of Mk4 + DRSD's around but finding a mint Mk3 or earlier not an easy task. The same holds true for red subs- plenty of FF ones out there but finding mint Mk1's to 3 MF not so easy. Again in this vintage world everything comes down to specific references and variations as well as condition IMHO...

I agree Ken. Just like not all Red Subs are the same, Meters first being more rare than Feet first, it follows that not all DRSD are the same either. Mark III and IV's are far more common than their earlier counterparts. Steve, I find it interesting that at the Burlington Arcade there was a predominance of Mk IV 1665's. I say this because if you look on the internet at the past sales of DRSD's from 2 well known and respected dealers the split between Mk III and IV's is almost even with a slight predominance toward Mk III. I will also tell you that one of them let me know that the price differential between III's and IV's has more to do with condition of the watch than with numbers of one produced versus the other. Condition, rarity, desirability, and provenance are so important.

[HL65]

The Mk3 is rarer and less of them around- ask Mr. Delgado. The Mk4 is much more common IMHO and the price is well below that of Mk3. In fact there are less Mk3 around than Mk2's. Check out link below:

http://doubleredseadweller.com/drsdcollecting.htm

[cruvon]

Originally Posted by ryan5446

here is one picture I took a long time ago.

Thanks, awesome pic. Btw what sort of a crystal does the DRSD have, not a tophat style right?

[skyedog]

Originally Posted by ryan5446

here is one picture I took a long time ago.

Awesome pair!!

[Rikki]

This all reminds me the coin business in the 70's and 80's during this time there was one grading system American Numismatic Association and they had mint state 60 mint state 65 and mint state 70 then all these grading systems came out of the woodwork and started slabbing coins and they broke down the grading to individual nicks scratches and original patina. In my opinion it ruined the fun of collecting coins and I soon left the business because it all got down to who gave you the grade you wanted on your coin. Having been in the business for 20 years prior I hope I'm not seeing this trend in the collecting of vintage watches be they Rolex and any othe brand because it seems to me that the way this is going it may price what used to be an ordinary watch out of reach of everyday people. Just saying Rik

[Beaumont Miller II]

I agree that fewer Mk III's were made than Mk IV's; however, if you look at Eric's sale archives you will see that he has sold 6 Mk III's and had 5 Mk IV's. I realize that not everything he sells is listed on his website, but the difference in price between the Mk IV he has for sale and the last Mk III he recently sold were within a thousand dollars of each other. Both watches were listed on or about the same time. Condition was about the same. I don't know that I can provide a link without permission from the mods. Additionally, Andrew sold a Mk III DRSD a month ago and a Mk IV DRSD last January, and they were within a thousand dollars of each other. They were described about the same. They are still listed on Tim......

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Beaumont Miller II

I agree that fewer Mk III's were made than Mk IV's; however, if you look at Eric's sale archives you will see that he has sold 6 Mk III's and had 5 Mk IV's. I realize that not everything he sells is listed on his website, but the difference in price between the Mk IV he has for sale and the last Mk III he recently sold were within a thousand dollars of each other. Both watches were listed on or about the same time. Condition was about the same. I don't know that I can provide a link without permission from the mods. Additionally, Andrew sold a Mk III DRSD a month ago and a Mk IV DRSD last January, and they were within a thousand dollars of each other. They were described about the same. They are still listed on Tim......

John- Agree at the lower end for non complete watch. The spread gets substantial when you are talking about pristine complete sets. Again- finding pristine complete Mk3 next to impossible though. Also- not easy to find Mk4 in pristine complete set either- just fewer ofnthe Mk3's to begin with. Then again- not easy to find many rarer vintage specimens in pristine complete set. That is what makes hunting them down all that much more fun and challenging!!

[HL65]

San- non side by side pictures but a few nonetheless to make up for getting way off topic in previous threads!

[skyedog]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

San- non side by side pictures but a few nonetheless to make up for getting way off topic in previous threads!

Ken

[hennabav]

Such beauties Ken!!

[cruvon]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

San- non side by side pictures but a few nonetheless to make up for getting way off topic in previous threads!

Beautiful watches Ken:). Does the 1680 look chunkier than the SD or is it just the pics?

[cruvon]

more pics please of the 2 together, especially of the side view showing the case and crystal.