Watch condition descriptions?...

[SpencerD]

Whilst I continue my search for a 16520 I am trying to grasp the the condition definitions which seem to crop up in connection with so called 'as new / like new' or mint watches:

Through the search function I found this posted by member "mfer":

BNIB means all stickers are in place and some say the bracelet has never been resized
LNIB means stickers removed, resized, tried on, etc.
MINT means worn, but viturally flawless.
Then people starting using meaningless % used which vary GREATLY between people.

So BNIB should be totally unambiguous whether purchased personally direct from the AD or from a trusted reseller who has just the left watch 'as is.'

LNIB - Seems to be clear from the above definition, so a sort of 'safe queen' in which the owner takes it out of the box from time to time to try it on and admire it with stickers removed but doesn't then wear for a few hours but just puts it back safely in the box. So shouldn't really have say any micro scratches on the polished centre links which infer desk surfing use...

The image below is from a watch being sold in 'like new' condition.



The micro scratches are clearly visible on the clasp but also the bracelet shows a sticker still present to the left which adds to my confusion.

Do you think this would fit more into the category of 'mint' if it is typical of the rest of the watch condition.

The reason I ask these questions is that I am trying to 'calibrate' my understanding / perception of these terms because it looks like I will almost certainly have to purchase this watch from overseas (I'm in the UK) and all of the watches with the LNIB description carry a premium over 'mint' watches

Cheers

[MonBK]

Here's TZ's grading system:


Grading system

Please keep in mind that to be listed on a TimeZone sales board, a watch must be pre-owned and have been worn. Pre-owned means sold to a retail customer and no open papers.


LNIB

A pre-owned watch that has been worn, yet is in perfect condition. Accompanied by the factory box(es), tags and documentation. No alterations from factory-delivered condition. The warranty papers must be stamped to establish the authenticity and validity of the watch - TimeZone does not allow sales of watches with "open papers." No bracelet resizing or marks of any kind. 100%


Mint

A pre-owned watch that is in very nearly perfect condition. Signs of wear are visible with a low powered loupe. May be a watch that is in LNIB condition but not accompanied by the factory box(es) or documentation. May refer to an older watch that has been restored, so long as the restoration returned the watch to very nearly perfect factory original condition. Working perfectly, keeping excellent time, needs nothing. 98-100%


Near Mint

Showing very light signs of wear. Faint scratches on the case, bezel, bracelet or buckle are visible to the naked eye. Completely original in every way. Strap shows light use - may be bent or lightly creased, but not stained. Bracelet may be resized. The watch is working perfectly, keeping very good time and needs nothing. 93-97%


Excellent

Evidence of use is visible to the unaided eye. Scratches are light, but more numerous than "near mint". If the watch has been restored, all original replacement parts have been used. Strap clearly used but no stains. No dents or dings are detectable, and the bracelet has little wear. Working perfectly, needs no repair or service. 88-92%


Very good

The watch shows what might be considered normal wear by a careful owner who wore the watch regularly. Scratches are evident, but no nicks or dings. May have replacement parts and/or a high quality redial. Running and keeping good time, though may need minor regulation. A sound, attractive presentation overall. 83-87%


Good

Nothing fundamentally wrong with the watch, though it has quite obviously been used. Running and wearable, but may gain or lose a few minutes over 24 hours. Case may show a few dings, nicks, or deep scratches. May have a redial that is not up to high standards. May not have all original parts. 77-82%


Fair

Well used, may require service and/or restoration to be useable. May be running erratically. Dial, case, and other major components may not be original, but no pieces are missing. Even an untrained eye could tell the watch is worse for wear. Some might call it rough. 72-76%


Poor

Shows abuse, requires service and/or restoration. May have major cosmetic flaws, missing parts, may not run at all. A speculative piece - 'fixer-upper' would be too generous. Not junk, but requires lots of work to be made wearable. 66-71%


Scrap / Parts

A collection of parts that at one time may have been a functioning timekeeper. Now missing parts, may be rusted or corroded, not worth restoring. Most people would call it junk. 64% or worse.

Your watch description must expressly state one of the grades set out above, or an intermediate grade. If your watch does not fall precisely into one of the grades, you may use an intermediate indication such as "Good +" and provide a description of why an intermediate grade was used, for example "cosmetically rough, but just received a full mechanical overhaul, new strap, and runs perfectly."

[SpencerD]

Cheers MonBK,

The definition you have quoted for LNIB sounds more consistent with the watch I have shown the image of then. I guess LNIB means different things to different people

I guess all PCL watches represent a particular problem in this kind of condition assessment due to the ease with which the links mark.

Cheers

[petesjag]

I buy only bnib from a dealer or AD to avoid these problems

[Tools]

Originally Posted by SpencerD

Cheers MonBK,

The definition you have quoted for LNIB sounds more consistent with the watch I have shown the image of then. I guess LNIB means different things to different people

I guess all PCL watches represent a particular problem in this kind of condition assessment due to the ease with which the links mark.

Cheers

It doesn't matter what you read, what a member posts, or what another Forum uses as their "guidance"..

The seller comes up with what he/she thinks they can get by with. They want people to buy their watch - period...

You should never use the sellers "grading system" as a criteria for a purchase, only as a very loose generalization of what you may find upon your own examination..

[liptonnr]

Everything is subjective! That is why a visual inspection can help you make your decision!

[MoBe]

Prepare for the worst,hope for the best.

Believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see.

I could go on but I think you get my point,right?

[SpencerD]

Thanks again for the feedback guys

I agree and understand that anything other than BNIB or 'Unworn' is subjective and either of those descriptions should mean a brand new watch with or without stickers.

As I mentioned my main problem is I am in the UK and a large part of the watches listed here are in the USA so a visual inspection is not really possible

I guess lots of questions and close up photos is the only way to minimise any 'misunderstandings'

Cheers

[padi56]

Originally Posted by tools

it doesn't matter what you read, what a member posts, or what another forum uses as their "guidance"..

The seller comes up with what he/she thinks they can get by with. They want people to buy their watch - period...

You should never use the sellers "grading system" as a criteria for a purchase, only as a very loose generalization of what you may find upon your own examination..

x2