Sucker is as Sucker does!!

[JJ Irani]

Okay guys,

Plenty of moanin' and bitchin' about fakes, ebay, scammers and what have you on this beloved forum of ours!!

But who's to blame? Think about this one, guys.....who the hell should take the blame?

The scammer? I don't think so!!

E-bay? No way....those buggers have been in business for years!!

The chappies who produce the fakes? What the heck....give the guys some credit for the painstaking manner in which they've produced amazing look-alike masterpieces!!

So....the next question is....who should take the blame?

Easy one...this!! The SUCKER who buys off these tossers without doing his homework!!

Some of us want to take the easy way out and think we can pick up a Rolex for a song without having done any research on the buyer.

Then I blame the BUYER and the BUYER only!!

For heaven's sake stop blaming external sources when all YOU have to do is stand in front of a mirror and ask yourself why you unknowingly bought a FAKE in such a damn hurry.....and now crying your heart out with regrets.

Have a think about this one, guys!! Sucker most certainly is as sucker intentionally does!!

Cheers - JJ

[SPACE-DWELLER]

I agree, JJ!

caveat emptor !

But if there is ONE thing I can't stand is when a wearer of a FAKE Rolex insists that his "Rolex" is a genuine one

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by Spacedweller

I agree, JJ!

caveat emptor !

But if there is ONE thing I can't stand is when a wearer of a FAKE Rolex insists that his "Rolex" is a genuine one

....and that bastid is the most abhorable kind of SUCKER around!!

[TDH]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

....and that bastid is the most abhorable kind of SUCKER around!!

2nd that!

[Chris B]

Agreed guys, what does it say about the person who wears a fake anything?

I'd rather wear a genuine Seiko (& did for years) than a fake Rolex

[ron17402]

Originally Posted by Chris B

Agreed guys, what does it say about the person who wears a fake anything?

I'd rather wear a genuine Seiko (& did for years) than a fake Rolex

I hear you. My fiance' bought a fake Gucci purse in NY and I got all over her case about it. I said why don't you buy a nice real $500 purse and ditch the fake? I said what does it say about you if somebody you respect knows that you have a fake?

Long story short, she does not use the fake and ended up buying a nice authentic Kate Spade.

I just don't get the whole fake thing.

[LouCan]

I'm with you JJ. You hit the nail on the head.

[explodingtaco]

I work in a sales orginization where people who have been here for 5+ years all make 100k+, however people just starting out make very little <40k. The fake rolex croud (I have seen a couple here) think they can "be a big man" if they look like they are doing as well as the big dogs. I HATE posers!

But to me almost as bad is a couple of guys who where there real Rolex really loose, almost all the way on their hand, just so that thier long sleeve shirt will not cover it up and all can see just how well they have made it.

Truth is I hate "status symbols" of all kinds. That is the only thing I dont like about Rolex. However, I started saving for the new GMTII

[Ragu]

JJ,
nailed it ...

I don't think that someone who's bought a fake Rolex is their first time they have been taken!

How can anyone lay out that kind of money (even thinking their getting a steal) and not wonder if it's real or not?

How's that old saying go...If it's too good of a deal sum-thang aint right!

[unclesallie]

Well, you're right. You have to do homework, but it is a predatory environment out there, and can be daunting to the unschooled and/or unwary. People buy Rolex for a number of (sometimes) complex reasons. I guess there are some basic issues. On this forum there are 'established' people who apparently have been on the forum for a long time(doesn't inlcude me, I'm new). These 'regulars' have established a track record/rep. So are presumably honest. However, there's no way of checking out a 'seller' on the internet. I guess you have to travel to the watch, but unless you pull the movement, and know what it looks like, how can you ever really tell? In short, there is some risk in buying a rolex from anyone other than an AD. To the extent you've done your 'homework' on the buyer(not sure how you can do that in this context with any reliability), I agree, you cut down but do not eliminate risk.

unclesallie

[Blown Wide Open]

Here Here JJ.

[newtamparealestate]

I 100% agree.

This is why on the 4 watches I own, I do it the easy way and walk into a local AD. Cant go wrong there.

[Transient]

I've expressed these very same thoughts throughout so many threads on TRF that it's just not funny!! Once again, just to reiterate, how can you spend so much money on a Rolex from Ebay? Is saving a few bucks worth the risk of buying a dud? I can't believe so many people are being swindled by the fraudsters.

[Scooby]

Sorry, can't 100% agree here. I do agree that it's best to buy from an AD or a reputable dealer after you've done your homework. But I do not agree that the only blame lies with the "sucker". Pardon the metaphor, but isn't that like saying she got what she deserved because she drressed provocatively?

I would put the blame first squarely on the makers and sellers of the fakes, who are knowingly and willingly breaking the law. These people are low lifes, preying on those who wish to save a little money and don't know any better. Sure, it's caveat emptor, and the buyer needs to bear some responsibility, but I cannot dismiss those who willingly perpetuate these crimes.

[Alcan]

Originally Posted by Scooby

Sorry, can't 100% agree here. I do agree that it's best to buy from an AD or a reputable dealer after you've done your homework. But I do not agree that the only blame lies with the "sucker". Pardon the metaphor, but isn't that like saying she got what she deserved because she drressed provocatively?

I would put the blame first squarely on the makers and sellers of the fakes, who are knowingly and willingly breaking the law. These people are low lifes, preying on those who wish to save a little money and don't know any better. Sure, it's caveat emptor, and the buyer needs to bear some responsibility, but I cannot dismiss those who willingly perpetuate these crimes.

Well said, Darren.

[John685]

Originally Posted by Scooby

Sorry, can't 100% agree here. I do agree that it's best to buy from an AD or a reputable dealer after you've done your homework. But I do not agree that the only blame lies with the "sucker". Pardon the metaphor, but isn't that like saying she got what she deserved because she drressed provocatively?

I would put the blame first squarely on the makers and sellers of the fakes, who are knowingly and willingly breaking the law. These people are low lifes, preying on those who wish to save a little money and don't know any better. Sure, it's caveat emptor, and the buyer needs to bear some responsibility, but I cannot dismiss those who willingly perpetuate these crimes.

I've got to agree with Scooby. Those who make and sell the fakes are criminals and should be held accountable.

There's nothing wrong with trying to get a "better" price. Some just naturally want to barter and others may not be able to afford the AD prices. A fair market place will determine the proper $$$ that a person should pay. It's just a question of how much profit an AD/grey market dealer wishes to make.

Come to think of it, considering the original post, would a person paying the full MSRP be considered a "sucker" because he didn't get a discount like other ADs might offer?

[divmat]

Originally Posted by Transient

I've expressed these very same thoughts throughout so many threads on TRF that it's just not funny!! Once again, just to reiterate, how can you spend so much money on a Rolex from Ebay? Is saving a few bucks worth the risk of buying a dud? I can't believe so many people are being swindled by the fraudsters.

A few bucks....No! Several thousand bucks...Yes!

I also have expressed before that buying a "new" Rolex from a grey market dealer on e-bay is fine. I have personally purchased several, and all are genuine and brand new. You must find the better dealers, but they are there and very reputable.

Last purchase was a Sub, and DJ for my wife and I. Saved $4,600.00 over new. Almost the difference of another watch. Not to mention, no sales taxes. Fact remains that grey's are here to stay as long as Rolex allows their AD's to continue selling watched at discounts.

I would never buy anything "used" on e-bay unless I was 100% sure I knew the person selling or had transacted something with them in the past. Most people who got screwed buying fakes on e-bay purchased them from dealers with little or no feedback, and just did not do their homework in general.

[T5AUS]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

Okay guys,

Plenty of moanin' and bitchin' about fakes, ebay, scammers and what have you on this beloved forum of ours!!

But who's to blame? Think about this one, guys.....who the hell should take the blame?

The scammer? I don't think so!!

E-bay? No way....those buggers have been in business for years!!

The chappies who produce the fakes? What the heck....give the guys some credit for the painstaking manner in which they've produced amazing look-alike masterpieces!!

So....the next question is....who should take the blame?

Easy one...this!! The SUCKER who buys off these tossers without doing his homework!!

Some of us want to take the easy way out and think we can pick up a Rolex for a song without having done any research on the buyer.

Then I blame the BUYER and the BUYER only!!

For heaven's sake stop blaming external sources when all YOU have to do is stand in front of a mirror and ask yourself why you unknowingly bought a FAKE in such a damn hurry.....and now crying your heart out with regrets.

Have a think about this one, guys!! Sucker most certainly is as sucker intentionally does!!

Cheers - JJ

That's it boyo JJ, if the fools are buying them then the fakers will keep making them, it's basic commerce, morals don't come into it. If you cant take the heat, then don't play with the fire.

[Arturo]

Read [I]The Road Less Travelled [I]by Peck. If you cannot afford a certain car,do not get it until you can. If you cannot afford a Rolex, do not get it until you can. Save your money and go to an AD. There is great merit to the concept of deferring gratification. You do not NEED that watch this minute. The Seiko is fine until you can get the real Rolex. Then just go to your local AD. If you can get a discount, great. If not, so what. Get the watch from an AD, have it for years, never worry about servicing and you will have a great asset. Become a friend with the AD. Buy it with cash only and don't put yourself in a hole over something basically pretty silly like a watch. I echo JJ totally. AD AD AD AD AD

[nodnarb757]

Im with you JJ.

[divmat]

I feel that Rolex is not doing enough to weed out the manufacturers of fakes in the first place. I know it's really tough to do, but taking a more proactive approach in locating and dismantling the distribution of these would help. Not to mention, a really severe punishment for the sellers on e-bay, or where ever they get peddled. Just like drug dealers on the street, they are key in this.

Maybe interpol and other governing law enforcement are just to busy working on more important cases. Of course I have no idea how much they actually do to prevent this, but it's just my opinion from the outside looking in.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by divmat

I feel that Rolex is not doing enough to weed out the manufacturers of fakes in the first place. I know it's really tough to do, but taking a more proactive approach in locating and dismantling the distribution of these would help. Not to mention, a really severe punishment for the sellers on e-bay, or where ever they get peddled. Just like drug dealers on the street, they are key in this.

Maybe interpol and other governing law enforcement are just to busy working on more important cases. Of course I have no idea how much they actually do to prevent this, but it's just my opinion from the outside looking in.

These things would be nice..But there is "the law of unintended consequence".

Rolex spends more than any other watchmaker in tracking down fakes. The more they spend on this, the more it drives up the price of originals - the more originals cost, the more those who want the look try to find a good deal in a replica.

As far as interpol and law enforcement......I don't believe they feel this rises to the level of the type of crime to concentrate their resources....

[yachtsales]

Originally Posted by divmat

I feel that Rolex is not doing enough to weed out the manufacturers of fakes in the first place. I know it's really tough to do, but taking a more proactive approach in locating and dismantling the distribution of these would help. Not to mention, a really severe punishment for the sellers on e-bay, or where ever they get peddled. Just like drug dealers on the street, they are key in this.

Maybe interpol and other governing law enforcement are just to busy working on more important cases. Of course I have no idea how much they actually do to prevent this, but it's just my opinion from the outside looking in.

I agree what is Rolex doing?

[mike]

Well,...I'm always a bit reluctant to call someone a sucker in some cases. Certainly if you want the most assurance possible go buy a new watch from an AD.
Where the waters get muddied is in the used and vintage arena. Even some ADs, greys, as well as private sellers have been known to exert less than full disclosure. What I have learned over the years is nothing beats study and research when "on the hunt" for a particular piece. I have studied a particular reference for weeks and months prior to pulling the trigger.
Even here some serious collectors have been stung by examples that have past muster with RSCs only to find their particular example was not correct or lacking in some manner.
There's really no free lunch.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by mike

There's really no free lunch.

And that, I guess, just about sums it all up!!

Well said, Mike!!

[f16570]

"If it seams to good to be true it probably is"
The BUYER gets all he deserves.
f

[T5AUS]

I feel I have been stretching the friendship a bit these last few weeks on here just constantly asking questions on several examples of Rolex, especially the vintage that I have been chasing, but folk are very kind and helpful which is a great thing and I do appreciate such sharing of knowledge. I respect the guys who only buy new from an AD but I just could not do that, I was brought up a horse trader and would never pay full price, a fair price yes, but a book price never. There is nothing more exciting than finding a rare thing and buying it for the asking price, knowing it's for a lot less than it's market value. This is what makes the chase so worth while, weather it be for Rolex watches or antique china, the rules are always the same, do your homework, ask lots of questions, and above all, know the seller, research the seller, ask questions about the seller, talk to people who have purchased from the seller and even then still be cautious and prepared to walk away, at the end of the day, it's your call, your choice.

[mike]

Originally Posted by T5AUS

I feel I have been stretching the friendship a bit these last few weeks on here just constantly asking questions on several examples of Rolex, especially the vintage that I have been chasing, but folk are very kind and helpful which is a great thing and I do appreciate such sharing of knowledge.

Not at all Phil. Asking, learning, and sharing knowledge and experiences are what it's all about. We are all students constantly seeking to increase the knowledge base.

[Rizzo]

I agree 110%. As a buyer you must do your homework if your not buying from an AD. If your not willing to look out for yourself, who will.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

Okay guys,..................
So....the next question is....who should take the blame?

Easy one...this!! The SUCKER who buys off these tossers without doing his homework!!

Some of us want to take the easy way out and think we can pick up a Rolex for a song without having done any research on the buyer.

Have a think about this one, guys!! Sucker most certainly is as sucker intentionally does!!

Cheers - JJ

I've gotta agree..

Without a buyer (sucker) to sell to, there would not be a market...

This goes for both wannabees and those who think they can buy a top product for pennys on the dollar..