Why are 233's getting no love?

[Mr Singh]

I am quite new to this forum and have been on the hunt for a Panerai for a while now. I went into four AD's in London on Saturday and they ALL had more than one 233 in stock. Harrods, Selfridges and Watches of Switzerland all have them in stock.

Interestingly all of the AD's said that the 233's are not moving as fast. All of them were on a N series serial number and they said they were produced around 4 years ago but have been sitting around in the shops as no one is buying them.

I thought the 233's would have been a sought after model as a couple of the AD's described them as 'top of the range' pieces.

Why are they getting no love as they are very very nice pieces indeed?

Also is this the reason why the 233 price has not changed in the 2013 prices increases? Is a lack of sales and price increase an indication that it is an over priced model?

Thanks

[Travelller]

Originally Posted by Mr Singh

...all of the AD's said that the 233's are not moving as fast...

My feeling is that:

• The 233 has been around for quite a long time (2006) it is a flagship model - so OP makes them in almost the same quantities as their base models, etc.
• The 233 is not a $5K PAM... if it were, my guess is you'd have a hard time finding one in stock...
• Collectors either own one already and/or are more interested in SEs
• The recent (2011 / 2012) production of several desirable models (372, 422, 425, ...) all selling for less than the 233 and providing more Panerai "DNA" are certainly capturing lots of interest (and rightly so)

p.s. My 233 is getting LOTS of love...

[p_mcgee]

$16k from a dealer vs $9k preowned

[TonyD]

Has to be an April Fool's day joke right? The 233 is one of the most beloved PAM's and watches in general on this site.

I was lucky enough to land a pristine dot version recently and I cannot imagine anyone having anything but love for this beauty.

[toulouse]

I think he means why aren't they being snatched up and harder to come by. There does seem to be one in my ad every time I've visited (don't know if it's the same one or re-stocking). My opinion, is just what p mcgee said. AD MSRP is pretty expensive compared to used market. For me, 9k is high but do-able. 16k, is definitely out of range for me.

[Mr Singh]

Haha no, no April fools.

Your right it is a very beautiful watch, and their flagship model. Don't get me wrong, but just trying to do some research as looking to purchase one.

I would have expect it to be harder to come by, like the Rolex Daytona but it seems to readily available in every AD I have been to over the past few months. The chaps in Harrods and Selfridges actually showed me the same piece they had showed me before christmas.

Just puzzles me why there was no price increase from tomorrow either. Also the resale value above indicates they're not holding their price and depreciation is around at 45%

[nim]

233 mrsp is 16,000usd, a used one can be had at 9,000 - 9,500usd
if you are concerned with depreciation, get a preown
but my advise is dont get the new AM/PM dial (L, M, N, O and P)
the dot is classic, and is limited to only I,J,K (4,500pc)

[red1108nyc]

Beautiful watch and was my grail for a while but I grew out of it. Still, I think its a looker!

Here was my old 233K!

[psv]

I was trying one on today. It is a watch that combines Panerai DNA like 1950 case, sandwich dial, manual movement etc with neat "new" features like in-house movement, 8 days power-reserve etc, etc, etc - but as much as I like the fit and finish, this just isn't a $15,400 watch. No way. I've even hesitating strongly at $9K used for a mint serviced one. I think Panerais pricing, and way too many special/limited editions, has caught up with them - along with the large diamaters and thickness.

At $6-7K I'd buy a 233, not at $9K.

Having said that, it is an iconic model among Panerisits, always will be. Much more wearable than most of the autos (thinner with flatter back) as well as the 47mm ones.

[nim]

if you ever find 233 at 6k or for that matter, 7k, tell me, i will buy 1,000pc from you
anyone can easily resell these at 8k, anytime anyday
fyi, even my local preown dealers are more than willing to take in 233 at 8k and they resell these at 10k in their shops

from the way you price panerai, i guess you are the type that will pay 3k for a 312 and 1k for a 111

Originally Posted by psv

I was trying one on today. It is a watch that combines Panerai DNA like 1950 case, sandwich dial, manual movement etc with neat "new" features like in-house movement, 8 days power-reserve etc, etc, etc - but as much as I like the fit and finish, this just isn't a $15,400 watch. No way. I've even hesitating strongly at $9K used for a mint serviced one. I think Panerais pricing, and way too many special/limited editions, has caught up with them - along with the large diamaters and thickness.

At $6-7K I'd buy a 233, not at $9K.

Having said that, it is an iconic model among Panerisits, always will be. Much more wearable than most of the autos (thinner with flatter back) as well as the 47mm ones.

[psv]

I'm not saying my opinion in this matter is the one of the market, and I know that people don't sell their 233's for $6-7K, but that is where I place the value of the watch (used), ergo I'm not buying it because I don't think it is worth $9.5K mint used, even much less $15,400 new. Your mileage and/or appreciation for the brand may vary.

[Cru Jones]

Patrick, if only I could snap my fingers and have watches selling for double the price I want to pay be available to me at 50% off.

[nim]

The reality is, you are never going to find a used 233 at 6 or 7k
You are placing it at the value of a lower grade pam eg the 312
Its either u don't realise the huge differences between the p9000 movement and the p2002 movement, or u are unable to appreciate the beauty and technicsl superiority of the 233
Either way, i'd say the 233 is not suited for u
U will be better off spending the 6-7k on a 312

Originally Posted by psv

I'm not saying my opinion in this matter is the one of the market, and I know that people don't sell their 233's for $6-7K, but that is where I place the value of the watch (used), ergo I'm not buying it because I don't think it is worth $9.5K mint used, even much less $15,400 new. Your mileage and/or appreciation for the brand may vary.

[nishant]

Originally Posted by nim

The reality is, you are never going to find a used 233 at 6 or 7k
You are placing it at the value of a lower grade pam eg the 312
Its either u don't realise the huge differences between the p9000 movement and the p2002 movement, or u are unable to appreciate the beauty and technicsl superiority of the 233
Either way, i'd say the 233 is not suited for u
U will be better off spending the 6-7k on a 312

Seems like you don't get the point the guy is making ...

Watches with 3 day movements can be had around 5 K in preowned segment with arguably better finishing than a Panerai ... Similarly an IWC with a 7 day movement and just as good of finishing can be had for 8 to 10 K in new condition ... If one doesn't wish to pay a premium for the brand value, these are the price ranges where 312 and 233 should fall theoretically speaking !!!

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by nishant

Seems like you don't get the point the guy is making ...

Watches with 3 day movements can be had around 5 K in preowned segment with arguably better finishing than a Panerai ... Similarly an IWC with a 7 day movement and just as good of finishing can be had for 8 to 10 K in new condition ... If one doesn't wish to pay a premium for the brand value, these are the price ranges where 312 and 233 should fall theoretically speaking !!!

"Brand value".......that's the point, I think. The price is the price and the new and used markets support it. I don't see why some people think they know better, but, there's enough watches out there for everyone, so, just move on.

These are luxury goods, after all, so "value" is difficult to assign, and comparing to other brands won't, IMO, get you anywhere.

[nim]

When you start comparing panerai with iwc, or the 8day 233 with a 3day-whatever-brand, it shows you dont know much about panerai
Go get your 8k iwc or 5k whatever-brand, leave panerai alone
Y make your life so difficult?

Originally Posted by nishant

Seems like you don't get the point the guy is making ...

Watches with 3 day movements can be had around 5 K in preowned segment with arguably better finishing than a Panerai ... Similarly an IWC with a 7 day movement and just as good of finishing can be had for 8 to 10 K in new condition ... If one doesn't wish to pay a premium for the brand value, these are the price ranges where 312 and 233 should fall theoretically speaking !!!

[B. Doggy]

233 popularity comes and goes.

[nauticajoe]

The 233 is a regular production watch. Seems the dot (I/J/K serials) were more favorable. Nevertheless, it's an awesome piece to add to any collection.

[psv]

Nim, it seems like you are the person who getting the argument. I'm merely saying that many of the brands we are talking about here, e.g. Panerai, IWC or Rolex, are perfect examples of Veblen good - I made it clear that for me personally Panerai has arrived to a price point where I simply don't think they are worth the money, and I made the case that there might be more people feeling the same out there and that is why you'll find 233's sitting the the AD cases everywhere you go.

I really don't care where the market of supply and demand finds the equilibrium in this case, or the level of passion that Paneristi have for the brand, but for me Panerais have reached a price level where I don't think it is a good value. I don't know how I can make it any clearer.

If you enjoy Panerais and find them to be worth the cash, please go ahead and enjoy them. Just respect other people's opinions as well.

[Puffy]

It's Richemont, of course it's not worth the money

[nishant]

+1

Originally Posted by psv

nim, it seems like you are the person who getting the argument. I'm merely saying that many of the brands we are talking about here, e.g. Panerai, iwc or rolex, are perfect examples of veblen good - i made it clear that for me personally panerai has arrived to a price point where i simply don't think they are worth the money, and i made the case that there might be more people feeling the same out there and that is why you'll find 233's sitting the the ad cases everywhere you go.

I really don't care where the market of supply and demand finds the equilibrium in this case, or the level of passion that paneristi have for the brand, but for me panerais have reached a price level where i don't think it is a good value. I don't know how i can make it any clearer.

If you enjoy panerais and find them to be worth the cash, please go ahead and enjoy them. Just respect other people's opinions as well.

[nishant]

Originally Posted by nim

When you start comparing panerai with iwc, or the 8day 233 with a 3day-whatever-brand, it shows you dont know much about panerai
Go get your 8k iwc or 5k whatever-brand, leave panerai alone
Y make your life so difficult?

Ok ..
Lets just compare the Bronzo with a PRonzo and find out who gets Panerai and who doesn't ...
Irrational people swayed so much by the DNA ;) of a profit making resurrected brand make good case histories for me ... And u sure are proving to be one. Sir.

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by psv

Nim, it seems like you are the person who getting the argument. I'm merely saying that many of the brands we are talking about here, e.g. Panerai, IWC or Rolex, are perfect examples of Veblen good - I made it clear that for me personally Panerai has arrived to a price point where I simply don't think they are worth the money, and I made the case that there might be more people feeling the same out there and that is why you'll find 233's sitting the the AD cases everywhere you go.

I really don't care where the market of supply and demand finds the equilibrium in this case, or the level of passion that Paneristi have for the brand, but for me Panerais have reached a price level where I don't think it is a good value. I don't know how I can make it any clearer.

If you enjoy Panerais and find them to be worth the cash, please go ahead and enjoy them. Just respect other people's opinions as well.

Got it, perfectly clear. Thanks for the additional thoughts.

[nim]

Does your opinion change the fact that 233 are worth more than what u r willing to pay? No
Does that mean u r never going to own a 233 at your perceived lower worth of 6-7k? Yes
Simply put, get on with your life
Give 233 and panerai a miss
Its not for u

Originally Posted by psv

Nim, it seems like you are the person who getting the argument. I'm merely saying that many of the brands we are talking about here, e.g. Panerai, IWC or Rolex, are perfect examples of Veblen good - I made it clear that for me personally Panerai has arrived to a price point where I simply don't think they are worth the money, and I made the case that there might be more people feeling the same out there and that is why you'll find 233's sitting the the AD cases everywhere you go.

I really don't care where the market of supply and demand finds the equilibrium in this case, or the level of passion that Paneristi have for the brand, but for me Panerais have reached a price level where I don't think it is a good value. I don't know how I can make it any clearer.

If you enjoy Panerais and find them to be worth the cash, please go ahead and enjoy them. Just respect other people's opinions as well.

[nim]

Give panerai a miss
Its never meant for u

Originally Posted by nishant

Ok ..
Lets just compare the Bronzo with a PRonzo and find out who gets Panerai and who doesn't ...
Irrational people swayed so much by the DNA ;) of a profit making resurrected brand make good case histories for me ... And u sure are proving to be one. Sir.

[nishant]

Originally Posted by nim

Give panerai a miss
Its never meant for u

Well actually .. My fourth PAM arrives this week ;)

[nim]

U still aint getting it dude
Even if you have 40 panerai, this brand is not for u
In fact, its never meant for u
Move on with other brands

Originally Posted by nishant

Well actually .. My fourth PAM arrives this week ;)

[nishant]

Originally Posted by nim

U still aint getting it dude
Even if you have 40 panerai, this brand is not for u
In fact, i doubt its ever meant for u
Move on with other brands

Not taking advice from a dumb fanboy ..

[nim]

Your weakness is showing now, slowly but surely
Still, the brand is not for you
It never was and never will
Move on or move out

Originally Posted by nishant

Not taking advice from a dumb fanboy ..

[psv]

Not doing yourself, or your argument, any favors, Nim.