Submariner 11 seconds fast

[jaguarsimon]

Hello all,
I've just checked the accuracy of my four year old Submariner over the last 24 hours.

It is now 11 seconds fast.

I believe this is outside the official chronometer accuracy of is it -4/+6 seconds?

I knew it was fast so even lay it vertical with crown upright last night which is supposed to slow it down.

I seem to remember when it was new it was approx 5 seconds fast. I had phoned RSC and they said that was better than being slow because as the lubricants disapate over time it would get slower in time.

So why's it got faster?

Cheers,

Simon

[77T]

As it loses amplitude it will speed up a bit because the beat rate changes. Overall, the condition of balance pivots and vertical centering, or flatness, of the balance spring may have changed. At low amplitude, a balance will "vibrate" faster, so the watch will gain.

Also, watches will generally run a little fast if the power supply is operating near exhaustion. Sometimes they aren't wound fully. So do a little test - give it full 40 crown turns and repeat the 24 hour measurement.

[crowncollection]

Good advice above, give it a full wind and check it over a few more days as an average.

[bigrustypig]

Try this tonite............lay your Sub on its with it's crown up, facing the ceiling. Over the next few days, it could slow down and maybe the gain can be controlled without any external intervention.

[77T]

Jeff, this is a good suggestion but he mentioned trying that in his post. The few seconds lost overnight doing the "crown up" technique will sometimes help if a watch is only 3-5 seconds fast. But his is gaining much more in the other positions it is used during the day.

[cop414]

Maybe it's just time for a simple regulation. BTW I always thought that as a Rolex got older that it would speed up but not that much.

[bigrustypig]

Originally Posted by 77T

Jeff, this is a good suggestion but he mentioned trying that in his post. The few seconds lost overnight doing the "crown up" technique will sometimes help if a watch is only 3-5 seconds fast. But his is gaining much more in the other positions it is used during the day.

Ooopssss...you're right there, mate. I stand corrected. Skimmed the post too fast.

[jaguarsimon]

Thanks for advice. I will give full rewind and repeat test.

I did lay it vertical with the crown pointing towards the ceiling last night.

[jaguarsimon]

BTW it made sense to me what the Rolex techie told me as as lubricants dissipate there would be slightly more friction in the moving parts thus in theory slowing it down a tad.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by jaguarsimon

Thanks for advice. I will give full rewind and repeat test.

I did lay it vertical with the crown pointing towards the ceiling last night.

On the modern movements like the 3 series the different movement positions don't always change a lot if they do we are only talking about a second or so.Now to test any watch it must be fully wound first to start,40 full crown turns clockwise only.Then set and sync your watch with reliable source for this test a quartz watch will do.Now put your watch on wrist but wear watch for 8 hours plus a day,check time once daily with same setting source over 5 full days then average out the loss or gain over those 5 days.Then if outside the COSC spec which is a AVERAGE of between -4 to +6 seconds over any 24 hour period.Then you have two option live with a few seconds out of 86400 in a day or get watch regulated.Now although regulation is a very simple task and takes around 30 minutes start to finish and thats including pressure check after if it goes back to RSC about 2-4 weeks.Regulation its accomplished by turning the Microstella adjustment screws and nuts.The two smaller Microstella screws make adjustments of one second for each turn, and the larger Microstella, two seconds for one turn, and rate adjustment on the balance wheel its around a max of around 150 seconds either way.

[polarinda]

Can all ADs do regulation? I thought the sales people there only sell watches?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by polarinda

Can all ADs do regulation? I thought the sales people there only sell watches?

If the AD has a inhouse watchmaker then yes, and quite a few have there own Rolex certified watchmaker on the AD staff.

[Annan]

Yes, probably needs a simple regulation. My DJ was running +6 seconds/day and after regulation is now +2. Not a big deal but it did make me happier. As for checking accuracy my method was a little different than Padi describes. I wore my DJ 24 hours/day. Each morning I checked it at the same time using time.gov as my reference. I also gave the crown a full 40 turns each day. It consistently gained 6 seconds each day over a period of 10 days. Consistency is a good thing! My watchmaker confirmed my assessment of +6 seconds. After regulation I went through the same process, this time for only 5 days and it was consistently +2 seconds. Now when I wear my DJ, usually around 12-16 hours/day, it is right at +1 second at bedtime. I rest it crown up and in the morning it is nearly spot on.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by jaguarsimon

BTW it made sense to me what the Rolex techie told me as as lubricants dissipate there would be slightly more friction in the moving parts thus in theory slowing it down a tad.

Lubricants do not really dissipate.. They do become more viscous as they contaminate and they do migrate away from where they need to be... However, by this time you should be having your watch cleaned and re-oiled...

If your watch truly is 11 seconds fast each day.. (you should be checking with a valid source over several days and dividing by the number of days) then no amount of positioning is going to change it much..

Have it regulated - it isn't that expensive..

[GradyPhilpott]

First of all, make sure that you're using a proper reference. If you're using your computer or your cellphone, then you're not getting good readings.

This is the best site I've seen, as it does not require Java, which is full of bugs of late.

http://time.is/

[RRGHOST1]

11 seconds wouldn't bother me, i would just adjust the time after a week by stopping the watch. 1min 17secs in a week is still pretty good for a mechanical watch.

[jaguarsimon]

I think you're right Luke. I'm not going to be too anal about it but I'll test it before I send it in for service and tell them I want it regulating to be as accurate as possible, but preferably slightly fast rather than slow. Presumably that's included in a service.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by jaguarsimon

I think you're right Luke. I'm not going to be too anal about it but I'll test it before I send it in for service and tell them I want it regulating to be as accurate as possible, but preferably slightly fast rather than slow. Presumably that's included in a service.

Don't forget when they regulate on a machine say +2 seconds over 24 hours now this don't always mean it will perform exactly the same while on wrist.

[wportre]

Originally Posted by padi56

The two smaller Microstella screws make adjustments of one second for each turn, and the larger Microstella, two seconds for one turn, and rate adjustment on the balance wheel its around a max of around 150 seconds either way.

Sorry to be a nerd, because I know it's a slip, but I see this around the place. So to clarify, the Microstella screws, working in balanced pairs, advance or retard one or two (for the big screws) seconds per notch on the tool, not per turn.

Also, can we all agree that regulation is a matter of personal preference? I get a little OCD over it because my watch is for long periods EXTREMELY consistent so I can go many months without adjusting the hands using the simple orientation tricks. So anything -ve (I only seem to be able to slow down from my normal patterns) or anything > +2 is intolerable, when it hits a new regimen every so often. I have the Microstella tool to prove it :-/ Others, I realise, are more tolerant (of their watches) so please be tolerant of me too; I do not want a quartz watch, thank you, I want a Rolex watch that I only open the crown when crossing timezones (it's a GMT Master II).

[hpowders]

I'm not surprised. My new Sub lost 10 seconds in the past 3 days, which means I will have to re-adjust it every 2 weeks or so, which I consider to be a PITA-especially for a watch that cost me almost $7000.
Someday, I would like to debate Rolex craftsmen on the meaning of "Superlative Chronometer".

[padi56]

Originally Posted by hpowders

I'm not surprised. My new Sub lost 10 seconds in the past 3 days, which means I will have to re-adjust it every 2 weeks or so, which I consider to be a PITA-especially for a watch that cost me almost $7000.
Someday, I would like to debate Rolex craftsmen on the meaning of "Superlative Chronometer".

The Chronometer spec is that when testing the bare uncased movement it should perform to a AVERAGE of between -4 to +6 seconds over any 24 hour period.Now you state your sub lost 10 second over 3 days so your watch is running well inside the COSC spec.And seeing there are 86400 seconds in a day your watch is showing a fraction under 99.997% accuracy.

[hpowders]

Originally Posted by padi56

The Chronometer spec is that when testing the bare uncased movement it should perform to a AVERAGE of between -4 to +6 seconds over any 24 hour period.Now you state your sub lost 10 second over 3 days so your watch is running well inside the COSC spec.And seeing there are 86400 seconds in a day your watch is showing a fraction under 99.997% accuracy.

Oh, I realize that. I know it is performing within defined parameters. Today I woke up and found the watch lost only one second over the last 24 hours, so clearly, the amount of seconds gained or lost will vary. I'm not unhappy; just too much of a damn perfectionist.

Meanwhile, I have never had any watch that looks so terrific on my wrist. Very impressive.

[wportre]

@hpowders, I feel your pain. Oh how I feel your pain. Basically, you (we) have 4 options

1) Buy a different watch, or rely on a phone etc for accurate time if we need it
2) Listen to padi56, which is probably the "sanest" option
3) Find a Rolex-approved watchmaker to drive crazy re-regulating every time the watch's natural rhythm changes (I live in dread every time I knock mine). And an oil-well...
4) Buy a Microstella and use the excellent support available on this site to take up watch-making as a hobby. (The least sane option, but see for example the incredible journey of LordNinja on these pages.)

[hpowders]

It's okay, wportre. The watch is performing well within the range of acceptable parameters and I accept that.

[submariner123]

Oh no! a whole 11 seconds!!! :'(

[hpowders]

I'd rather have it fast than slow. Nothing Freudian about it.

[jaguarsimon]

Fully wound. Didn't wear it over last 24 hours and today 9 seconds fast.

[Rolex Richie]

Out of the -4 +6 but not drastically bad. Just wear it all the time, enjoy it, and when you feel it's time for a service, send it in & it will be spic & span and back to keeping great time.

[GermanyMatt]

Better 9 seconds fast vs slow. Far easier to set to current time every few days.

[wportre]

And you can knock off a good chunk of that by overnight positioning.