bigger hands means losing time ?

[fwellers]

This is probably way off base, but in my mind not totally out of the realm of possibility, so I just throw it up.
It seems to me, just based on casual observation, that a high percentage of GMT IIC owners are having their watch lose a little time each day.

My impression was that Rolex was one of those watchmakers who tend to err on the gaining time side. I know mine gains +3 ( thanks Rolex ).

Anyway, it causes me to wonder if the LV is losing time for a higher than normal number of people.
The reason I ask is that in my twisted mind, I am thinking that maybe, just maybe the larger sized hands take a minute amount more of energy to turn, and that the Rolex process of regulating has been honed for so long to a certain amount of friction/drag, that it's not compensating well enough in all instances.

Like I said, probably a total mess of mistakes in my thinking but I told you my mind can go to evil places.

[JostheBoss]

I'm sure the weight difference has some role if it's not compensated for by the movement. But (and this is not cos I own one) all of the GMT IIc owners have been marvelling at the watch's accuracy! Bo's, Velitsko's and mine are all bang on.

But perhaps I'm misunderstandidng you..you're saying Rolexes traditionally run a little fast, so the new accuracy is because the hands may be heavier, hence the movement slows a bit? Interesting. Could be!

[JohnEaton]

When your hands are larger, there is no need to compensate

Thought you knew LVs and SDs were used as a counterbalance

[Dan Pierce]

I thought bigger hand meant bigger gloves.
dP

[JostheBoss]

Originally Posted by JohnEaton

When your hands are larger, there is no need to compensate

Thought you knew LVs and SDs were used as a counterbalance

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

I thought bigger hand meant bigger gloves.
dP

It started off as a serious, thoughtful thread but let's see where these bafoons take it!!

[JohnEaton]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

I thought bigger hand meant bigger gloves.
dP

Something like that

[JohnEaton]

Originally Posted by JostheBoss

It started off as a serious, thoughtful thread but let's see where these bafoons take it!!

I'm waiting for JJ to chime in with 37 posts, the first 5 about tossers, the last two or three involving wool and Valentines

[fwellers]

Originally Posted by JostheBoss

It started off as a serious, thoughtful thread but let's see where these bafoons take it!!

Probably humor is a good thing to mix into a thread like this.

I notice there's plenty of it mixed into even the most serious threads. I really like that about this place.
It gives me room to step on my crank without feeling too badly about it after the spankings.
btw, that's ridiculously cool that your watches are so accurate !!

[padi56]

Originally Posted by fwellers

This is probably way off base, but in my mind not totally out of the realm of possibility, so I just throw it up.
It seems to me, just based on casual observation, that a high percentage of GMT IIC owners are having their watch lose a little time each day.

My impression was that Rolex was one of those watchmakers who tend to err on the gaining time side. I know mine gains +3 ( thanks Rolex ).

Anyway, it causes me to wonder if the LV is losing time for a higher than normal number of people.
The reason I ask is that in my twisted mind, I am thinking that maybe, just maybe the larger sized hands take a minute amount more of energy to turn, and that the Rolex process of regulating has been honed for so long to a certain amount of friction/drag, that it's not compensating well enough in all instances.

Like I said, probably a total mess of mistakes in my thinking but I told you my mind can go to evil places.

Look you guys when the movements are checked at the COSC testing centre only the bare movement is sent.Without the dial hands even the auto rotor is removed they have a substitute special dial hands put on at the COSC.Then they are wound by a machine then tested hundreds at a time,with time lapse computer controlled photography.And the very very very minute difference in the varius hands weight would have absolutely nothing to do with the individual timekeeping of the watch.What will be spot on on ones persons wrist will not necessary mean is spot on on another.

[fwellers]

Originally Posted by padi56

Look you guys when the movements are checked at the COSC testing centre only the bare movement is sent.Without the dial hands even the auto rotor is removed they have a substitute special dial hands put on at the COSC.Then they are wound by a machine then tested hundreds at a time,with time lapse computer controlled photography.And the very very very minute difference in the varius hands weight would have absolutely nothing to do with the individual timekeeping of the watch.What will be spot on on ones persons wrist will not necessary mean is spot on on another.

Initially, reading your response I would begin to say that you made a better case for my theory when you said that the movements are tested without any hands. That would tend to make a heavier hand go slower on the same tested movement.
I defer to a more knowledgeable person when you say that the hand weight is so miniscule as to amount to nothing.

I guess the movement of different people's wrists would mean that a watch keeps a certain level of tension on the mainspring, and since a more wound spring is more accurate ( I think ), then I guess in that way the wrist movment of the wearer can have an effect, probably more so than the micro-gram weight difference.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by fwellers

Initially, reading your response I would begin to say that you made a better case for my theory when you said that the movements are tested without any hands. That would tend to make a heavier hand go slower on the same tested movement.
I defer to a more knowledgeable person when you say that the hand weight is so miniscule as to amount to nothing.

I guess the movement of different people's wrists would mean that a watch keeps a certain level of tension on the mainspring, and since a more wound spring is more accurate ( I think ), then I guess in that way the wrist movment of the wearer can have an effect, probably more so than the micro-gram weight difference.

Please re-read my post I said they are substituted with special dial and hands at the COSC for the testing purposes.How could the record time check machines check if they did not have any hands or dial.They have special hands and dials so the computer controlled cameras can record the timekeeping for each individual movement on test.

[fwellers]

Originally Posted by padi56

Please re-read my post I said they are substituted with special dial and hands at the COSC for the testing purposes.How could the record time check machines check if they did not have any hands or dial.They have special hands and dials so the computer controlled cameras can record the timekeeping for each individual movement on test.

Sorry, my mistake. Of course you would need hands to tell time while testing regulation.
I wonder though, what hands are used during this testing and regulation period ?

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Originally Posted by padi56

(..).What will be spot on on ones persons wrist will not necessary mean is spot on on another.

Which leads us to the overall value of COSC testing. Good to know one's watch is COSC tested, but as you state it does not have to mean one's watch is actually showing the COSC results on the wrist of the end user, as well. At the end of the day, COSC is just marketing hype, and accuracy is about wearing habits and proper regulation according to the wearing habits.

[f16570]

Clearly the larger the hands, the greater the drag against the air. Now this is all dependant on the ambient air temperature and also the relative altitude at any given time, coupled with the density and relative humidity this will all make a variation applicable at any given point, so therefore accuracy is only relevant when taken in a relative context.

[fwellers]

Originally Posted by f16570

Clearly the larger the hands, the greater the drag against the air. Now this is all dependant on the ambient air temperature and also the relative altitude at any given time, coupled with the density and relative humidity this will all make a variation applicable at any given point, so therefore accuracy is only relevant when taken in a relative context.

but however on the other hand as the case may be if the situation were reversed. ..........

[jimroe]

Yeah - what Fraser said ...

[jimroe]

But seriously it's an interesting observation that a lot of the GMT IIc watches do run a little slow, though all seem to be reported as being within COSC specs.

Mine, out of the box, was -3.5 a day. When I took it in to the RSC to get it regulated they put it on the machine and reported that it found it -3.5 in one position and -2 in another. They regulated it and when they gave it back told me it was plus 1. But it really isn't - I had the regulation done 27 days ago, and it has actually lost 2 seconds in those 27 days.

I am TOTALLY happy with that (.07 seconds a day is amazing) but I do wonder "Why does a GMT IIc on the wrist seem to run slower than what the timing machine reports?" Perhaps there is something with this movement that makes it tend to run slower on the wrist than what timing machines suggest, and perhaps this is why many seem to be slow rather than fast.

And we certainly have too much time on our hands to be reading and posting on this thread. I need to get a life ...

[Tools]

In theory, and from an engineering build perspective, heavier hands would affect the timing at some value...

However, the balance is read (tested) with a machine that measures the beats-per-hour after the installation of hands..

So, any difference the hands had is cancelled out by re-adjustment of the Stella nuts on the balance wheel..

In your scenario, if the watch was timed with small hands, and then big hands were installed, there might be a measurable difference...it just isn't the case..


Now, to the question on if a man has bigger hands on his watch, what does it mean ? I agree that it is probably some sort of compensation mechanism for other shortcomings...

Sort of like the middle age 'Vette in the garage phenomenon...

[StanGMT]

Originally Posted by f16570

Clearly the larger the hands, the greater the drag against the air. Now this is all dependant on the ambient air temperature and also the relative altitude at any given time, coupled with the density and relative humidity this will all make a variation applicable at any given point, so therefore accuracy is only relevant when taken in a relative context.

Good point, Fraser - just think, with big enough hands, with a bit of a 'pitch', you'd get a helicopter effect, with the movement smashing its way out of the case, through the watch glass!!

Seriously, though, in the context of a watch, with hands weighing milligrams, the effect of a slight increase in the weight of the hands will be more than compensated for throught appropriate regulation of the movement.

Stan.

[East Bay Rider]

What if it was assembled in a vacuum free of air (no drag)?
What if that same watch (assembled in a vacuum) was being worn in space (no gravity)?

Yes, these are the things I think about.

[robrtx]

My LV gains 2-3 sec/day

My GMT IIc loses 1-2 sec/day

[Lubrifar]

ah ha...that explains why I'm always late!

[fwellers]

Originally Posted by East Bay Rider

What if it was assembled in a vacuum free of air (no drag)?
What if that same watch (assembled in a vacuum) was being worn in space (no gravity)?

Yes, these are the things I think about.

These things will depend on how fast the watch is traveling through space. The faster it's going, the slower it will run.

[JohnEaton]

Originally Posted by fwellers

These things will depend on how fast the watch is traveling through space. The faster it's going, the slower it will run.

Very GOOD fwellers, I'd say in that case (if V >.25 C) it's all relative

http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia...elativity.html

[donutdanny]

Originally Posted by East Bay Rider

What if it was assembled in a vacuum free of air (no drag)?
What if that same watch (assembled in a vacuum) was being worn in space (no gravity)?

Yes, these are the things I think about.

Also, what if the watch was assembled on a Wednesday instead of a Tuesday. That could make a difference in it's ability to keep accurate time.

[fwellers]

Originally Posted by JohnEaton

V (if V >.25 C) it's all relative

http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia...elativity.html

At 744,000 mps how long can that watch go between services ?

[JohnEaton]

Originally Posted by fwellers

At 744,000 mps how long can that watch go between services ?

approx 7.2895 X 10 to the 10th miles

[JohnEaton]

Originally Posted by JohnEaton

approx 7.2895 X 10 to the 10th miles

Sh!t... didn't add 1 1/4 leap days or time dilation...

[buz-lh]

Originally Posted by f16570

Clearly the larger the hands, the greater the drag against the air. Now this is all dependant on the ambient air temperature and also the relative altitude at any given time, coupled with the density and relative humidity this will all make a variation applicable at any given point, so therefore accuracy is only relevant when taken in a relative context.

I reverantly bow down to the absolute relevancy of your relatively humorous post.