Yachtmaster with a Daytona case back?

[Lexxxus]

OK YM experts I have a question... Might as well tell you the whole story first.

I met a guy today who has 3 pre-owned Rolex for sale. A TT Daytona 1623 (Zenith movement) in pretty nice shape (gold face & sub dials w/ black rings) After thorough inspection I'm 99% sure its gen and I am meeting him next week to have it authenticated and pretty sure I will pull the trigger. It has all the correct Zenith functions and is silky smooth in all regards (tons of hairline scratches but nothing that would not polish out with genuine service and re-furb) has a tiny flea bite on the edge of the crystal at 6:00 (no biggie but I probably would replace it) The sticker on the case back still remains and shows the correct wear with the coronet and model number just visible. I'd bet a month of lunches its genuine.

He also had an older Datejust TT w/ blue face that has been very well worn. Major stretch to the Jubilee bracelet... The DJ in my mind is no doubt genuine (having owned one from the same mid-80's era) Decent example but no longer my cup of tea (though we didn't really talk price on it)

While very excited about the Daytona the 3rd watch was one I was also very interested in. A SS Yachtmaster. But it set off lots of warning bells.

The face / hands / date window / cyclops looked very much gen. Under a loop however a few of the lume markers looked just a little "off"

Like my Subs (and opposite the Zenith Daytona) It "advanced" the time when the crown is turned clockwise (every fake I've seen is the opposite though perhaps older fakes had the correct function) Date adjustment was good. Crown had no rubber O-ring though it looked like there might have been one at one time, and the bracelet felt a bit "clinky"... The clasp is not as solid as my Subs or other YM's I have handled. There was significant stretch to the bracelet (all polished links) Another "tell" were the bracelet mounts on the underside. They appeared more flimsy than any gen I have owned.

Winding the watch had a strange feel to it not at all smooth like any of my genuine pieces. The bezel had a slightly crude feel to it when rotated (not nearly as smooth as say, either of my subs) Under magnification the bezel looked very accurate.

He swears it came from the local AD about 15 years ago and said he would be quite shocked if it was a copy. He is in his 60's and came across as very sincere with not a great deal of watch knowledge. While he was a stranger we found out that we know a lot of the same people. Now retired, he worked for the government and claims over the years he was gifted a few watches but again, he was certain the YM came from the City's only current AD.

Get this: The biggest red light is the back. It has the DAYTONA Winner logo on the back.

So much of the watch screams fake but a lot of it looks very genuine leaving me quite perplexed. I have a pretty good eye for replica Subs and Daytonas but I can't help but think something is major amiss with the YM. I've seen some convincing fakes but have always been able to identify them. Maybe it was a gift and the person who gave it to him simply gave him a replica. They've been cranking out copies for a long, long time.

Has anyone ever seen or heard of a YM with a DAYTONA inscribed back? Despite my limited YM knowledge that shouted "fake"

Prior to meeting we'd been in touch over the phone and via e-mail and we agreed to go for lunch next week. He said we can take all 3 to my WM who is Rolex-trained. He'll no doubt tell me the truth in a heartbeat after inspection and after popping the back off.

That said, I just thought I'd throw this out and get a few opinions.

No papers or boxes for any of them (he said to him they were "just watches" and he'd toss them into his jewelry box without any special care) He did however produce an old water-stained Rolex certificate that appears quite genuine but it does not have any numbers that reference either the Daytona or the YM. Never thought about until now that it might have been for the Datejust.

I pored over my 10 year old copy of the Rolex Report but there is very little YM info in it.

I'm expecting a lot of people to tell me the YM is a replica but still I would appreciate any comments.

Thanks in advance!

W

[Passionata]

daytona winner caseback =fake,o'same caseback on YM=superfake ,a seller with one fake most likely have more so i d be extremly cautios with the Zenith too ,might be it s a frankenfake.
My hint is just walkaway ,all these watches are avaliable on the market for fair prices u shouldn t take the risk

[HL65]

One word: Run

[dysondiver]

buy the seller ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, to many words in that post just to say , ive found three nice watches... end of story.

[Lexxxus]

I know these are early days but they are all probably worth having my WM verify. He's a good friend and one of the best Rolex guys in the city. He probably won't even charge me. The seller also has a genuine desire to know the truth. I have nothing to lose. Will advise.

Again, while I am fully expecting "No" to be the answer I'm just curious if any YM was ever made with that Daytona inscription.

W

[Lexxxus]

Originally Posted by dysondiver

buy the seller ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, to many words in that post just to say , ive found three nice watches... end of story.

Sorry Irish. Insomnia. What can I say?

[fullcourt]

sounds bad

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Lexxxus

I know these are early days but they are all probably worth having my WM verify. He's a good friend and one of the best Rolex guys in the city. He probably won't even charge me. The seller also has a genuine desire to know the truth. I have nothing to lose. Will advise.

Again, while I am fully expecting "No" to be the answer I'm just curious if any YM was ever made with that Daytona inscription.

W

And the answer is No.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

And the answer is No.

And a double and treble no from me those watches by description by the original poster are at best frankenwatches, or complete fakes either leave well alone., .

[kilyung]

I would not deal at all with someone who owned a fake. Even if the others are legit. Too much risk.

[Seaward]

Run, don't walk, away from this deal.


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[Casey VP-26]

It never hurts to look, just have them verified before purchasing. Good Luck.

[Cc1966]

Run Forrest, Run...

[Tools]

I certainly would want to investigate these watches thoroughly if they were in my possession.. One odd one in a batch taints the whole batch to some extent.

My first reaction to a "Wiinner" caseback, especially on a YM, is that it is not authentic even though I know that authentic "Winner" watches exist. However, many casebacks will physically screw onto another and some are completely interchangeable (A YM uses the same caseback as an Explorer 36).

So, at the very least, it sounds like a mix-n-match Frankenwatch, and at worst an outright fake..

[petenyc]

run away

[Lexxxus]

Thanks for the input. I will have the Daytona checked out. I would bet money its authentic. Its a watch I am much more familiar with than the YM. A Zenith two tone 'Tona would be a score at the right price. I don't find this guy shady in the least. Not everyone who owns a hi-end watch constitutes an aficionado and not everyone who ends up with a fake is a scam artist.

[Andad]

All been said.