Is this Rolex 16800 genuine?

[growla666]

Hi All,

I've been trying to ascertain the status of my Rolex submariner. Looking at other pictures of 16800s (on second watch sites and other owners) mine seems odd and looks more modern than a 1980s version - I'm basing this on the dial. The watch may have been refurbished with a new face but I have no documentation to suggest otherwise.

The Rail dial seems to be too close to the spot markers (which are white gold surrounded) plus the serial (653xxxx)and model numbers (16800) suggest this is a 1980/1 sub but looking at it it appears to be a mid 80s model.

Can anyone shed any light and explain the contradictions?

Growla

[mike]

Hi Growla,

You are correct. That serial number places the watch in the early matt dial era. I certainly no expert, but to be honest there are several things that give me pause on your dial.

The minute markers seem a bit long for what I associate with the gloss/WG dials.
The font seems odd and the coronet off from known examples I've seen.
"SWISS T<25" is crowded. And honestly I'm not sure it's a rail dial as I would normally consider one.

Perhaps others will help us to clear it up.

[growla666]

Thanks for the reply Mike. I'm going to ring rolex and check with them. I've seen lots of copies and this looks, feels and weighs like the real thing its just the dial gives me cause for concern by the things you've mentioned. I bought it secondhand from a jeweller in Brighton who guaranteed its authenticity but I don't have actual written proof of it. I think its been refurbished but I'm not sure when.

[CoopJr]

Whoa! What's up with those end links? They look like SEL yet those were not out in the 80's. Also, like Mike said..the second hash marks look too long. Any markings on the end pieces or clasp?

[growla666]

SEL? End links? What does that mean? I've taken the strap off and checked the model and serial numbers and the case (if anything) is real plus have checked with Rolex this morning and have checked that its not stolen or lost. Agree the second hands look too long though...has anyone else ever seen that?

[sherwin]

maybe a modified rolex?... id have a jeweller check it out

[CoopJr]

Originally Posted by growla666

SEL? End links? What does that mean? I've taken the strap off and checked the model and serial numbers and the case (if anything) is real plus have checked with Rolex this morning and have checked that its not stolen or lost. Agree the second hands look too long though...has anyone else ever seen that?

SEL= Solid End Links. A new(er) type of end link that came out around late 2000 I believe. I'm not calling it a fake but serial and model numbers being present do not insure it's authenticity. Could you post pics of the end pieces?

Getting this to a RSC ASAP is a smart thing to do.

[growla666]

Thanks guys, I've taken the liberty of showing it with my other watches......

[growla666]

I've tried getting photos of the end pieces cant take good enough macro shots. Will take it to a Rolex dealer later to get them to look at it.

[growla666]

The 16800 is showing SELs (now I've cottoned on to what your are talking about) because its a new strap, the original strap is better on my Tudor Submariner (the original for that is well worn, scratched and much less robust).....

[CoopJr]

Originally Posted by growla666

The 16800 is showing SELs (now I've cottoned on to what your are talking about) because its a new strap, the original strap is better on my Tudor Submariner (the original for that is well worn, scratched and much less robust).....

So the 16800 came with a new bracelet. Someone with more expertise than I (which is easy to do) is going to have to confirm that the new SEL bracelet can be fitted to a case with lug holes, which I think I see in the picture. Did your jeweler say if the replacement bracelet was genuine Rolex?

I was expecting to see a bracelet just like your Tudor Sub...which is very nice BTW

[mike]

The correct bracelet and endlinks for the reference would be a 93150 with 593s.

I'd guess an SEL might work, but don't know for sure. SELs on sports watches were introduced on the 16660 circa 1981.

[CoopJr]

Originally Posted by mike

The correct bracelet and endlinks for the reference would be a 93150 with 593s.

I'd guess an SEL might work, but don't know for sure. SELs on sports watches were introduced on the 16660 circa 1981.

Thanks Mike! I learned something again.

[growla666]

The Tudor is sporting the original bracelet fitted to the Rolex. The markings on the bracelet are 93150 with end-links marked 580. Does that mean anything? I don't believe the SEL bracelet currently fitted to the Rolex is a genuine strap, but I'm not that bothered by that as it fits well and I will not be selling the 16800 as it gets worn on a regular basis by me anyway. I just want to know the actual watch is genuine (it cost £1575 (circa $2900)) without its original paperwork.

[veefour]

Dial not original. Bezel probably not original. Second hand may look longer because of larger minute marks.

[growla666]

ooeerr does that mean I've got a fake on my hands then?

[applebook]

Originally Posted by veefour

Dial not original. Bezel probably not original. Second hand may look longer because of larger minute marks.

I agree. This looks fake and not very good either. Like Mike, I've never seen a Maxi gloss dial (except on the LV, of course). The dial on this one looks typical of fakes.

[stevemulholland3]

it doesnt mean you have a fake,just a frankenwatch,which means made up of real/after market parts from more than one watch.I would definitly have it checked.
by the way,do you want to sell your old tudor bracelet?(the old worn one)
I have been looking for one for my vintage to have re-done.
cheers

[growla666]

Umm, whilst the dial may be after market the original strap, case and movement definitely aren't fake. I agree it may be a frankenwatch, but it still works beautifully, and no I'm not selling my old tudor strap.....to anyone. I'm taking it to a rsc to get the insides checked over..

[growla666]

Took my 16800 to a rolex service centre and they took the back off to certify the movement, which I can now say is the genuine article. They said that the face is a 'generic' dial that has been put on the watch to replace a worn out original. Its not a rolex dial but in all other respects the watch is the real deal (thank goodness!)...thanks for your input in susing it out, and I learnt a few things in the process....

Richard

[applebook]

Are you going to replace the dial with a genuine part? I'd definitely do it. That fake doesn't look good and ruins an otherwise fine watch, IMO.

[Orchi]

Originally Posted by growla666

The Rail dial seems to be too close to the spot markers (which are white gold surrounded) plus the serial (653xxxx)and model numbers (16800) suggest this is a 1980/1 sub but looking at it it appears to be a mid 80s model.

Err buddy Growla...buddy Mike is absolutely spot on...again.

Here's a pic of the actual n original Matte finish Dial...for your 16800(6.5 million series).

In Orchi's case...Orchi had to climb many coconut trees in order to get...it right.

[growla666]

Funny you all say that as I've now been trying to get a replacement 16800 dial and the one I bid for (and lost by some margin) on ebay went for something like £250 ($500!!!!) OMG thats steep.....will change it, just need to wait until I can get a resonably priced replacement dial...any ideas where?

[Orchi]

Originally Posted by growla666

Funny you all say that as I've now been trying to get a replacement 16800 dial and the one I bid for (and lost by some margin) on ebay went for something like £250 ($500!!!!) OMG thats steep.....will change it, just need to wait until I can get a resonably priced replacement dial...any ideas where?

Err buddy Growla...you missed the ferry alright...

Orchi spent near to Double that amount which you mentioned...for the right Matte Dial to make this 16800(7.4 million Series) 100% correct.

Here are the pics of before n after results...

[veefour]

Think I'll take my 16800 to pieces and make a fortune on e-bay........ Certainly much more than as a complete watch

[growla666]

Thanks for all the feedback so far, very educational. In the meantime I've just gone and bought a 2008 anniversary 16610 Submariner to make up for the fact that my 16800 is handicapped by a fake dial, still I have sourced a 16800 dial in the UK but have yet to agree a price with the dealer...so watch this space. Orchi - wanna sell your old dial that you had on your 16800 or has it gone already?