The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Old 9 November 2008, 07:13 AM   #1
MAINEZX10
"TRF" Member
 
MAINEZX10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: MASSACHUSETTS
Posts: 896
Zenith or in-house movement

Would you guys rather have a Zenith or in-house movement Daytona, value not considered. I sold my Y series for a Z series and kinda like the thin hands. Was considering selling the Z series, to buy one w/ Zenith movement since they have thin hands. Haven' t wore the Z much so maybe I gotta let grow on me, just use to looking at the thin hands
MAINEZX10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 November 2008, 07:15 AM   #2
JJ Irani
Fondly Remembered
 
JJ Irani's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Real Name: JJ
Location: Auckland, NZ
Watch: ALL SOLD!!
Posts: 74,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAINEZX10 View Post
Would you guys rather have a Zenith or in-house movement Daytona, value not considered. I sold my Y series for a Z series and kinda like the thin hands. Was considering selling the Z series, to buy one w/ Zenith movement since they have thin hands. Haven' t wore the Z much so maybe I gotta let grow on me, just use to looking at the thin hands
The Zenith movement is excellent. It's a higher beat 32,000 A/Hr and a 31-jewel movement.

The new in-house 4130 calibre from Rolex goes at 28,800 A/Hr and is encrusted with 44-jewels.

Both very good movements - you can't go wrong with either one of them.

JJ
__________________
Words fail me in expressing my utmost thanks to ALL of you for this wonderful support during my hour of need!!

I firmly believe that my time on planet earth is NOT yet up!! I shall fight this to the very end.......and WIN!!
JJ Irani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 November 2008, 07:18 AM   #3
MAINEZX10
"TRF" Member
 
MAINEZX10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: MASSACHUSETTS
Posts: 896
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ Irani View Post
The Zenith movement is excellent. It's a higher beat 32,000 A/Hr and a 31-jewel movement.

The new in-house 4130 calibre from Rolex goes at 28,800 A/Hr and is encrusted with 44-jewels.

Both very good movements - you can't go wrong with either one of them.

JJ
If you had to chose which would you?
MAINEZX10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 November 2008, 07:19 AM   #4
JJ Irani
Fondly Remembered
 
JJ Irani's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Real Name: JJ
Location: Auckland, NZ
Watch: ALL SOLD!!
Posts: 74,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAINEZX10 View Post
If you had to chose which would you?
Well, I would go with the in-house 4130 calibre. Don't really need the super hi-beat movement.

JJ
__________________
Words fail me in expressing my utmost thanks to ALL of you for this wonderful support during my hour of need!!

I firmly believe that my time on planet earth is NOT yet up!! I shall fight this to the very end.......and WIN!!
JJ Irani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 November 2008, 07:23 AM   #5
scottschoe
"TRF" Member
 
scottschoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 3,295
Zenith due to the subdial layout/colors.
__________________
__________________
scottschoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 November 2008, 07:34 AM   #6
cody p
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Canada
Watch: Air-King 114200
Posts: 2,878
what could be cooler than having a rolex modified 'el primero' on your wrist?
cody p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 November 2008, 08:18 AM   #7
argee1977
"TRF" Member
 
argee1977's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Real Name: Ryan
Location: England
Watch: AP ROC
Posts: 1,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ Irani View Post
The Zenith movement is excellent. It's a higher beat 32,000 A/Hr and a 31-jewel movement.

The new in-house 4130 calibre from Rolex goes at 28,800 A/Hr and is encrusted with 44-jewels.

Both very good movements - you can't go wrong with either one of them.

JJ

The EP is a 36,000 vph and Rolex detuned it to 28,800, they also left the date feature unused so i'd say it's not really the high beat EP anymore, the in-house movement was specifically made for the Daytona, they used up the extra space to get more power reserve so out of the two i'd choose the in-house.

But if it's a choice between a fully working EP and the 4130 then i'd choose the EP
__________________

PANERAI, MORE THAN A WATCH, LESS THAN A KITKAT
argee1977 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 November 2008, 08:19 AM   #8
argee1977
"TRF" Member
 
argee1977's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Real Name: Ryan
Location: England
Watch: AP ROC
Posts: 1,462
And yes i'm bitter about this as i had set the zenith daytona as my grail until i found out it was detuned
__________________

PANERAI, MORE THAN A WATCH, LESS THAN A KITKAT
argee1977 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 November 2008, 08:21 AM   #9
Alcan
2024 Pledge Member
 
Alcan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Real Name: Al
Location: Way Up North
Watch: your P's & Q's
Posts: 10,473
.
__________________
Member #1,315

I don't want to get technical, but according to chemistry alcohol IS a solution!

Last edited by Alcan; 9 November 2008 at 08:23 AM.. Reason: Zenith 36,000 vpm oscillating frequency already addressed
Alcan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 November 2008, 08:26 AM   #10
Tools
TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron
 
Tools's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Real Name: Larry
Location: Mojave Desert
Watch: GMT's
Posts: 43,514
The thin hands are difficult to see and the sub-dial at the traditional 6 oclock position is just too cool.

I would go with the new 4130 any day..

However, if I collected Daytonas..then of course, I would have both.
__________________
(Chill ... It's just a watch Forum.....)
NAWCC Member
Tools is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 9 November 2008, 09:02 AM   #11
hsung
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne
Watch: Daytona
Posts: 288
I have not worn a Zenith movement, but like the dials during this era. I am waiting for Rolex to reinvent some of these dials with a black bezel

However, I like the 72 hr power reserve and the thinner case of the 4130 movement.

I would like to correct my earlier post in another thread that it makes no difference how you place the 4130 Daytona overnight. This week, I noticed mine had slowed a few seconds after gaining a few over several weeks placing it crown up on the W/E's. So, last Fri night, I place it with crystal face up, and found it regained the lost seconds this Sun morning
hsung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 November 2008, 09:09 AM   #12
Moto
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NYC
Watch: SS GMT IIc
Posts: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by argee1977 View Post
And yes i'm bitter about this as i had set the zenith daytona as my grail until i found out it was detuned
You say detuned like it was a bad thing. Rolex found that the accuracy was more stable with a slower beat and a heavier balance wheel that has more inertia. It's an improvement.
Moto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 November 2008, 03:26 PM   #13
Andad
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
Andad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Real Name: Eddie
Location: Australia
Watch: A few.
Posts: 37,533
"accuracy was more stable with a slower beat"

Sorry but I dont understand that?

IMO Rolex saw potential problems with spinning the bigger heavier microstella wheel at 36000 vph so they had to reduce the escapement to 28800 as the stress on working parts was going to be too high. The spin off (NPI) was that the power reserve was increased by the slower escapement. Larry (Tools) also noted that bigger concerns were the lubrication problems with the 36000 escapement and this would also mean more frequent servicing and parts replacement.
__________________
E

Andad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 November 2008, 04:32 PM   #14
JJ Irani
Fondly Remembered
 
JJ Irani's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Real Name: JJ
Location: Auckland, NZ
Watch: ALL SOLD!!
Posts: 74,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by argee1977 View Post
The EP is a 36,000 vph and Rolex detuned it to 28,800, they also left the date feature unused so i'd say it's not really the high beat EP anymore, the in-house movement was specifically made for the Daytona, they used up the extra space to get more power reserve so out of the two i'd choose the in-house.

But if it's a choice between a fully working EP and the 4130 then i'd choose the EP
Oops....that's right, Ryan....that should have read as 36,000 A/hr. Thanks for the correction.

JJ
__________________
Words fail me in expressing my utmost thanks to ALL of you for this wonderful support during my hour of need!!

I firmly believe that my time on planet earth is NOT yet up!! I shall fight this to the very end.......and WIN!!
JJ Irani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2008, 04:50 AM   #15
CVerKuilen
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Real Name: Chris
Location: MI
Watch: Tudor Chrono
Posts: 75
I think they BOTH have a place in our collections, however the 4030 is generally not referred to as the El Primero by a certain group of people, and rightly so. The EP went through over 100 modifications in order to earn the right to be called the 4130. Considering the 4030 has ~ 300 components that are disassembled during service, I would grant it the right to be called it's own movement, as well.
CVerKuilen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2008, 05:23 AM   #16
argee1977
"TRF" Member
 
argee1977's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Real Name: Ryan
Location: England
Watch: AP ROC
Posts: 1,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ Irani View Post
Oops....that's right, Ryan....that should have read as 36,000 A/hr. Thanks for the correction.

JJ

I never even noticed that i was correcting

As for the reasons why Rolex detuned, yes they went on about the increase in maintenance of the movement, but we're talking about a movement that has been in hundreds of watches since 1969, and still going strong in thousands of watches today, reducing it wouldn't increase accuracy, if anything it would reduce it slightly if it started losing/gaining time.
__________________

PANERAI, MORE THAN A WATCH, LESS THAN A KITKAT
argee1977 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2008, 06:09 AM   #17
Nigel Tufnel
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Grosse Pointe, MI
Posts: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottschoe View Post
Zenith due to the subdial layout/colors.
ditto
Nigel Tufnel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2008, 06:11 AM   #18
rolex_addict
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: .
Posts: 831
the in house movement 4130 no doubt!
rolex_addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2008, 06:12 AM   #19
Felly Jr.
"TRF" Member
 
Felly Jr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Real Name: Felly
Location: Washington State
Watch: SS Daytona/GV
Posts: 2,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolex_addict View Post
the in house movement 4130 no doubt!
Felly Jr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2008, 06:43 AM   #20
Moto
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NYC
Watch: SS GMT IIc
Posts: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by directioneng View Post
"accuracy was more stable with a slower beat"

Sorry but I dont understand that?

IMO Rolex saw potential problems with spinning the bigger heavier microstella wheel at 36000 vph so they had to reduce the escapement to 28800 as the stress on working parts was going to be too high. The spin off (NPI) was that the power reserve was increased by the slower escapement. Larry (Tools) also noted that bigger concerns were the lubrication problems with the 36000 escapement and this would also mean more frequent servicing and parts replacement.

This was mentioned in the article
A WORLD APART- INSIDE THE ROLEX MANUFACTURE
By Wei Koh

"Back when Rolex used the Zenith El Primero chronograph movement for their Daytona watches, movements were detuned from 36,000 vph to 28,800 vph. Rolex found that reducing vibrational speed and using a balance with greater inertia led to better long-term accuracy and stability."

A very interesting read which you can find here: http://www.horomundi.com/forum/showt...ighlight=Rolex
Moto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2008, 07:36 AM   #21
argee1977
"TRF" Member
 
argee1977's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Real Name: Ryan
Location: England
Watch: AP ROC
Posts: 1,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moto View Post
This was mentioned in the article
A WORLD APART- INSIDE THE ROLEX MANUFACTURE
By Wei Koh

"Back when Rolex used the Zenith El Primero chronograph movement for their Daytona watches, movements were detuned from 36,000 vph to 28,800 vph. Rolex found that reducing vibrational speed and using a balance with greater inertia led to better long-term accuracy and stability."

A very interesting read which you can find here: http://www.horomundi.com/forum/showt...ighlight=Rolex

But the very reason for a high frequency movement is to increase accuracy and stability, i wouldn't believe everything stated, i feel Rolex wanted to stamp their own style onto the movement, they reduced the frequency so that it wouldn't require servicing quite as frequently and wouldn't wear as fast, so if you service an in-house Rolex every 5 years then the zenith should be serviced every four years.

Anyway i wouldn't look too deeply into it, the EP is a fantastic movement with a wealth of history and data, Rolex used this to tide them over until their own movement was complete, and they created a fantastic movement of their own that suited the style of chronograph they were producing, the EP was a little bit of a square peg in a round hole, Rolex just shaved the edges off to get it to fit their system.

I'd still love to see Rolex add the date function onto the Daytona, but i'm in two minds whether they will, on the one hand i feel that a lot of people would love this and i know at least 3 people who would buy a Daytona with a date function, but i also have a feeling that the purists at Rolex may think a date function is a change too far.
__________________

PANERAI, MORE THAN A WATCH, LESS THAN A KITKAT
argee1977 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2008, 07:37 AM   #22
padi56
"TRF" Life Patron
 
padi56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Real Name: Peter
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng
Watch: ing you.
Posts: 53,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ Irani View Post
Well, I would go with the in-house 4130 calibre. Don't really need the super hi-beat movement.

JJ
JJ the Zenith El-Primo was a high beat 36000 BPH movement and it was down-graded by Rolex to a 28000 BPH movement.
__________________

ICom Pro3

All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only.

"The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever."
Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again.

www.mc0yad.club

Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder
padi56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2008, 09:27 AM   #23
Z-Sub
2024 Pledge Member
 
Z-Sub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: So Cal, USA
Watch: Not a ONEWatch Man
Posts: 7,383
I would pick the 4130 even though the 4030 is more "collectable" at this time.
Though accuracy are the same for both, 4130 had a few advantages like faster winding, longer (still not long enough) power reserve and easy to maintain/service.
__________________
SS Submariner Date "Z"
SS SeaDweller "D"
SS Submariner "Random"
TT Blue Submariner "P"
SS GMT-Master ll "M", Pepsi
Pam 311, 524, 297
Z-Sub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2008, 09:39 AM   #24
C. Davidson
"TRF" Member
 
C. Davidson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Real Name: Chris
Location: WXSW
Watch: GMT (116710)
Posts: 2,723
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAINEZX10 View Post
Would you guys rather have a Zenith or in-house movement Daytona, value not considered. I sold my Y series for a Z series and kinda like the thin hands. Was considering selling the Z series, to buy one w/ Zenith movement since they have thin hands. Haven' t wore the Z much so maybe I gotta let grow on me, just use to looking at the thin hands
I would go with the in-house movement.
__________________
-Cheers, Chris
#15,634

"The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge; the ears of the wise seek it out."
C. Davidson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2008, 09:42 AM   #25
Felly Jr.
"TRF" Member
 
Felly Jr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Real Name: Felly
Location: Washington State
Watch: SS Daytona/GV
Posts: 2,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by C. Davidson View Post
I would go with the in-house movement.
Me Too!

Felly Jr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2008, 11:31 AM   #26
Porsche9284
"TRF" Member
 
Porsche9284's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Real Name: John
Location: Toronto
Watch: SS Daytona/CokeGMT
Posts: 58
Icon20 Zenith VS IN-House

First Post.

Though everyone would find this an interesting read.



http://www.watchtime.com/archive/wt_...001_05_042.pdf
Porsche9284 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2008, 08:37 PM   #27
hsung
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne
Watch: Daytona
Posts: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moto View Post
This was mentioned in the article
A WORLD APART- INSIDE THE ROLEX MANUFACTURE
By Wei Koh

"Back when Rolex used the Zenith El Primero chronograph movement for their Daytona watches, movements were detuned from 36,000 vph to 28,800 vph. Rolex found that reducing vibrational speed and using a balance with greater inertia led to better long-term accuracy and stability."

A very interesting read which you can find here: http://www.horomundi.com/forum/showt...ighlight=Rolex
Thanks for the interesting thread
hsung is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Wrist Aficionado

My Watch LLC

WatchesOff5th

DavidSW Watches

Takuya Watches

OCWatches


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.