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9 December 2017, 09:36 AM | #1 |
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Tattoos and resuscitation orders.
Interesting article and an unusual ethical dilemma...
https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydai...icle-1.3672864 Any medical professionals or tattoo aficionados care to weigh in? |
9 December 2017, 10:50 AM | #2 |
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His wishes seem pretty clear to me.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
9 December 2017, 10:55 AM | #3 |
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9 December 2017, 10:55 AM | #4 |
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Saw that.
Agree it was best to abide his wishes.
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9 December 2017, 11:15 AM | #5 |
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They should have brought him back IMO.
It's entirely possible he got the tattoo because he thought the phrase was edgy/cool. It could even be a song lyric. |
9 December 2017, 11:21 AM | #6 |
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could be the makings of future litigation
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9 December 2017, 11:33 AM | #7 |
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They made the right decision IMO. Anyone who gets that tattooed on their chest will have thought of the implications and how it would be interpreted, thus had the tattoo done with intent.
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9 December 2017, 11:54 AM | #8 |
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Ok, Devil's advocate here. How many have a ex-girlfriend/boyfriend's name tattooed? Did you later have it removed?
I agree his intent seems pretty clear, but what if he'd changed his mind and hadn't gotten the ink removed? Tough call, I can see both sides. Trouble is that one decision is irrevocable. Still you've got to respect his wishes... I'm completely conflicted on this one! |
9 December 2017, 12:08 PM | #9 | |
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I don’t see this as any different than having signed a dnr order and then changing your mind but not having to gotten around to changing it. So all DNRs should be ignored in case the patient changed their mind? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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9 December 2017, 12:15 PM | #10 | |
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Your view seems very logical and it does appear that he went to significant effort to make his wishes clear and highly visible. Much more so than a piece of paper that could be lost or inaccessible. Who keeps that kind of paperwork with them anyway? His solution seemed bulletproof. Interesting that the doctors didn't initially honor his instructions... |
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9 December 2017, 12:31 PM | #11 |
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A signed dnr means exactly one thing, nothing else. A tattoo can mean anything from edgy hipster, to just another crappy tattoo. But, if you actually want a legal dnr, you would fill out the paperwork, not rely only on a tattoo.
It's all moot since the guy had a legal dnr document filed. I would resuscitate the guy unless there was a legal binding dnr on record just because you can never go back if wrong. |
9 December 2017, 01:05 PM | #12 | |
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Curious, are you a healthcare worker and have you actually encountered a situation like this? |
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9 December 2017, 01:29 PM | #13 |
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If I were in that situation, I would NOT rely on the tattoo as an official DNR.
Could have it just to be a bad-ass or possibly changed his mind but could or did not get it removed. |
9 December 2017, 02:27 PM | #14 |
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hmmm, not being in the medical or legal profession here, I didn't think of the liability risk of not following an official protocol. So, perhaps morally the right decision, but legally not.
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9 December 2017, 02:37 PM | #15 | |
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Quote:
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9 December 2017, 02:53 PM | #16 |
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9 December 2017, 03:07 PM | #17 |
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Not sure if this makes any difference to anyone, but I looked up the source report from the New England Journal of Medicine and his "Do Not Resusitate" tattoo was accompanied by his tattooed signature.
The article fails to mention however if his signature was notarized and if the notary's signature was tattooed as well. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056...3344#t=article "Paramedics brought an unconscious 70-year-old man with a history of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, diabetes mellitus, and atrial fibrillation to the emergency department, where he was found to have an elevated blood alcohol level. The staff of the medical intensive care unit evaluated him several hours later when hypotension and an anion-gap metabolic acidosis with a pH of 6.81 developed. His anterior chest had a tattoo that read “Do Not Resuscitate,” accompanied by his presumed signature." |
9 December 2017, 03:14 PM | #18 | |
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I really don't want this to devolve into a point/counterpoint on the merit/demerit of a tattoo. I'm hoping we can stick with the topic at hand. It seems sufficiently controversial in its own right. |
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10 December 2017, 12:43 AM | #19 | |
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Mods, you can delete my earlier comment as I can no longer edit it. |
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9 December 2017, 11:30 PM | #20 |
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10 December 2017, 01:03 AM | #21 | ||
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Quote:
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A tattoo isn't legally binding. I've known too many people who regretted a tattoo to think that some old ink would be an affirmative defense when the family's attorney knocked on my door. |
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10 December 2017, 05:12 AM | #22 | |
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I'm not a lawyer so I can't really comment on the legality of that decision, but at least in this one hospital the tattoo was in fact binding. |
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10 December 2017, 06:24 AM | #23 | |
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The hospital ethics board decided they weren’t at fault. Gee, I’m so surprised. |
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10 December 2017, 06:50 AM | #24 | |
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What happened afterword is irrelevant. The hospital panel had already made their decision. Now whether or not that was the correct decision, or whether it was a legally defensible decision, we'll never know because, as you pointed out, the DNR paperwork was later found. |
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9 December 2017, 02:40 PM | #25 |
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Agree with Greg. That is a tattoo not a legal document. End of story.
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9 December 2017, 11:25 PM | #26 |
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I think if it were something removable like a medical bracelet it would manifest the intention much more clearly. This is a real conundrum ...
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9 December 2017, 11:59 PM | #27 |
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I remember when I was in the hospital in the green zone in Iraq talking with a doctor who had DNR written on his running shoes. I thought it was weird because I figured if anything catastrophic happened he would have been blown right out of his shoes. Whether or not the tattoo in itself would be binding it’s definitely a good way of making your wishes known so if nothing else they check your charts. It worked in this case very well not sure a wrist band or something on your shoes would work as well in every case.
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10 December 2017, 12:27 AM | #28 |
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Interesting replies.
A family member or a letter will suffice as a DNR but a tattoo would have to be decided/ interpreted by the courts and could be challenged by the family just because. Tattoo = resuscitate. What other messages were tattooed on the victims body? Would there be an obligation to flip him over and make sure you read the entire manifesto before making a decision ?
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10 December 2017, 12:34 AM | #29 |
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I'm guessing there are other tattoos that wouldn't be taken literally as well
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10 December 2017, 02:14 AM | #30 |
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I'm in the business
I've seen these in the real world. I have not and would not make a decision based on a tattoo. I've never known a colleague to do so, either. If a person with a possible DNR status is resuscitated, you have done no harm. Things can subsequently be de-escalated If resuscitation is not performed, then nothing can be undone This post is based on my personal experience only!! |
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