Rolex AD price-forming policies

[Gimoozaabi]

Hi,

I am curious whether there is a rule/obligation for all authorized Rolex/Tudor ADs to sell the watches at the official MSRP lists?

Can the ADs profit by adding extra on top these prices?

In case this is a normal practice, let me know. I have the feeling that it is not, but I am not certain.

A local EU AD just told me prices over the phone which are approx 10% more than the list price. Could that be a mistake?

Thanks

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[77T]

Maybe those EU prices included VAT?

Rolex prices are controlled by in-country distributor agreements. Here in US, Rolex can not direct a retailer’s final sales price. But your Country’s laws may vary.


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[dmash]

Originally Posted by 77T

Maybe those EU prices included VAT?

Rolex prices are controlled by in-country distributor agreements. Here in US, Rolex can not direct a retailer’s final sales price. But your Country’s laws may vary.


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All list prices in EU are already VAT inclusive, sounds like OP is dealing with a shady AD.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Gimoozaabi

Hi,

I am curious whether there is a rule/obligation for all authorized Rolex/Tudor ADs to sell the watches at the official MSRP lists?

Can the ADs profit by adding extra on top these prices?

In case this is a normal practice, let me know. I have the feeling that it is not, but I am not certain.

A local EU AD just told me prices over the phone which are approx 10% more than the list price. Could that be a mistake?

Thanks

Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk

What country was the AD located? What prices did he quote? Just making sure you’re comparing to the exact country’s price list. They all differ....

[Gimoozaabi]

Originally Posted by dmash

What country was the AD located? What prices did he quote? Just making sure you’re comparing to the exact country’s price list. They all differ....

Thanks all for the quick responses!

Are these prices are available online so I can check.

I will check and compare the prices for:

2116710 (I think this is the ref for the new SS GMT Master II)

Tudor Black Bay 58 (on steel bracelet)

Tudor BB GMT (on steel)

Of course their are updated regularly so a most fresh list will be very helpful.

At this point I will prefer not to disclose information about the AD unless I am certain that it uses a malpractice and of course I will check the VAT whether is included in the list or not.

Thanks!

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[AK797]

In UK and EU I believe ADs are not permitted to sell over retail, so if they are then report this AD to Rolex and tell the AD you will be doing so, Rolex want to know of dodgy ADs now.

[Gimoozaabi]

Originally Posted by AK797

In UK and EU I believe ADs are not permitted to sell over retail, so if they are then report this AD to Rolex and tell the AD you will be doing so, Rolex want to know of dodgy ADs now.

Thanks. Will do that in case I have the proof. I will ask the prices over email.

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[dmash]

Originally Posted by Gimoozaabi

Thanks all for the quick responses!

Are these prices are available online so I can check.

I will check and compare the prices for:

2116710 (I think this is the ref for the new SS GMT Master II)

Tudor Black Bay 58 (on steel bracelet)

Tudor BB GMT (on steel)

Of course their are updated regularly so a most fresh list will be very helpful.

At this point I will prefer not to disclose information about the AD unless I am certain that it uses a malpractice and of course I will check the VAT whether is included in the list or not.

Thanks!

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My question is:

Are you comparing the exact country’s price? EU prices are not the same across the board..

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Gimoozaabi

Thanks. Will do that in case I have the proof. I will ask the prices over email.

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if they put it in writing they are idiots

[dmash]

I can tell you with certainty, that the new GMT Pepsi is 8400€ and the Tudor 58 is 3330€ (in Germany)

[BLM2]

You seem to be asking for "high demand" pieces. Rolex currently seems to be restricitng supply in certain parts of Europe, where currency fluctuations are at a mis-match. After multiple threads re this, you have several choices:

1. Put your name on a waiting list at an AD (at MSRDP) near you and hope to be called in several years.

2. Pay over list price at an AD or grey market and get to wear the watch now.

3. Spend $XXX at your local AD and move to the head of the list.

It is called capitalism. I may not like it, but that is how it is.

PS. Years ago, I paid a grey market dealer 50% above MSRDP for a SS Daytona. Within four years the MSRDP had risen 50%. I looked at the situatuion that I was able to wear the watch for four years.

Lee

[Gimoozaabi]

Originally Posted by dmash

I can tell you with certainty, that the new GMT Pepsi is 8400€ and the Tudor 58 is 3330€ (in Germany)

Originally Posted by Gimoozaabi

Thanks. Will do that in case I have the proof. I will ask the prices over email.

Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Gimoozaabi

Thanks all for the quick responses!

Are these prices are available online so I can check.

I will check and compare the prices for:

2116710 (I think this is the ref for the new SS GMT Master II)

Tudor Black Bay 58 (on steel bracelet)

Tudor BB GMT (on steel)

Of course their are updated regularly so a most fresh list will be very helpful.

At this point I will prefer not to disclose information about the AD unless I am certain that it uses a malpractice and of course I will check the VAT whether is included in the list or not.

Thanks!

Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by dmash

All list prices in EU are already VAT inclusive, sounds like OP is dealing with a shady AD.

Thanks for the heads up!
The prices that you quoted in your later post - can you please confirm that they are VAT inclusive? Eg. 3300.- EUR for the Black Bay 58.

Can you please check the price of BB GMT in Germany (incl VAT)?

Still not to disclose the identity of the AD (yet!), I am located in Eastern Europe and it looks like buying from Germany could turn to be cheeper!

Thanks!

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[dmash]

100% with VAT, any price listed online exclusive of vat must explicitly say (beside it/below it) that it is without VAT. Also, not sure where you live, but it’s very uncommon for a retailer to ever list prices without VAT to begin with. ESPECIALLY any major company such as Rolex. You never see this in Western Europe.

As a side note, good luck on getting a Pepsi at MSRP from Germany or another AD with lower VAT%. You do know the lists are already years long at this point? Just a heads up before you buy a plane ticket You’re going to need history or deep pockets at any AD for this piece.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by dmash

100% with VAT, any price listed online exclusive of vat must explicitly say (beside it/below it) that it is without VAT. Also, not sure where you live, but it’s very uncommon for a retailer to ever list prices without VAT to begin with. ESPECIALLY any major company such as Rolex. You never see this in Western Europe.

As a side note, good luck on getting a Pepsi at MSRP from Germany or another AD. You do know the lists are already years long at this point? Just a heads up before you buy a plane ticket

i think its the law. Prices listed inclusive of all taxes... its only after you buy something where the VAT is backed out on the receipt so you know what the price is and what the tax is.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i think its the law. Prices listed inclusive of all taxes... its only after you buy something where the VAT is backed out on the receipt so you know what the price is and what the tax is.

In Germany some shadier retailers will list it without VAT. However, immediately below the price, it explicitly states it is without VAT. I think they do this so on google search comparisons for price, they come up the lowest.

But like I said, this practice is non-existent for every major corporation.

[Gimoozaabi]

Edit: thanks to all who responded!

[Gimoozaabi]

Originally Posted by dmash

In Germany some shadier retailers will list it without VAT. However, immediately below the price, it explicitly states it is without VAT. I think they do this so on google search comparisons for price, they come up the lowest.

But like I said, this practice is non-existent for every major corporation.

Thanks dmash,

I want to get the BB GMT and asked the AD shortly after it was unveiled at Basel. Plus I am interested in the BB58 but I am on the fence as I covered that base with 14060m.

The BB GMT - The AD had it listed for 3040 EUR without VAT (the steel bracelet model). The explanation from the AD is that the model is very new and they did not received the official price lists with the VAT adjusted for the different countries.

On other hand in Switzerland it is 3700 CHF and according to the AD there is no VAT included in that price (and I know Swiss have low VAT on watches).

The price that I received (unofficially as the list is not distributed yet) with VAT adjustment (which is 20% locally) is 3648.- EUR. I believe for this particular watch the price should be very similar in Germany.

Can you please check and confirm!
Thanks



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[codecow]

There is no reason an AD would need to do this. The normal trick is to make you buy something else with a high margin like jewelry or a slow mover to gain access to buy a hot piece at MSRP.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Gimoozaabi

Thanks dmash,

I want to get the BB GMT and asked the AD shortly after it was unveiled at Basel. Plus I am interested in the BB58 but I am on the fence as I covered that base with 14060m.

The BB GMT - The AD had it listed for 3040 EUR without VAT (the steel bracelet model). The explanation from the AD is that the model is very new and they did not received the official price lists with the VAT adjusted for the different countries.

On other hand in Switzerland it is 3700 CHF and according to the AD there is no VAT included in that price (and I know Swiss have low VAT on watches).

The price that I received (unofficially as the list is not distributed yet) with VAT adjustment (which is 20% locally) is 3648.- EUR. I believe for this particular watch the price should be very similar in Germany.

Can you please check and confirm!
Thanks



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Some points to clarify for you.

1. Regarding the Black Bay GMT. German price is 3620EUR. This makes pretty much perfect sense, and in line with what your AD has quoted. 3040EUR x 1.19 (to account for 19% VAT in Germany) is 3617EUR.

2. You cannot compare the price with Switzerland. They are not in the EU and the prices are different. That's like making a correlation between Germany and Japan and simply doing the conversion. Of course there will be differences/better deals.




I guess I'm not sure where you were thinking the AD is being dishonest? From the lone example you've given, he is charging accurate pricing....? What watch are you talking about that he quoted you 10% more?

[Gimoozaabi]

Originally Posted by dmash

Some points to clarify for you.

1. Regarding the Black Bay GMT. German price is 3620EUR. This makes pretty much perfect sense, and in line with what your AD has quoted. 3040EUR x 1.19 (to account for 19% VAT in Germany) is 3617EUR.

2. You cannot compare the price with Switzerland. They are not in the EU and the prices are different. That's like making a correlation between Germany and Japan and simply doing the conversion. Of course there will be differences/better deals.




I guess I'm not sure where you were thinking the AD is being dishonest? From the lone example you've given, he is charging accurate pricing....? What watch are you talking about that he quoted you 10% more?

Yes, it all checks out in the end. I am happy for this clarification as I have almost zero experience with buying a new watch directly from a Rolex AD.

All my new or used watches were ordered online (except once when I bought a Sinn directly from their store in Frankfurt - superb experience, it was really nice).

I was quick to jump to wrong assumptions as I was indeed comparing the Swiss prices. What triggered the red light is that the AD mentioned that they don't have the official prices yet when I inquired about the 3 watches which interest me.

Bottom line: the price is legit and I am getting the Tudor Black Bay GMT through that dealer. I am happy I was not quick to tarnish it's reputation.

Thanks to all who replied and for keeping the TRF this fantastic resource of knowledge (and fun!).



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[Wcdhtwn]

I'm not sure about the US but it seems more and more that if you want a high demand piece you need to buy another to become a 'known" or 'VIP" customer. So the MSRP of a DaytonaC = $12,400 + the cost of a DJ or PM. That's quite a price increase over MSRP for a Daytona...