Italy important VAT for US Citizen

[Jsol]

Happy Friday friends,
This may be a bit specific. I’m wondering if I can claim a VAT refund for a pre-owned Rolex being shipped to me while I’m on business in Florence. The watch is coming from outside the EU and I’m a US citizen. Anyone done this before?

[Devildog]

You can only claim a VAT refund when leaving Europe if you are a non European citizen and the watch was purchased new in a European country

The only bit of that that applies to your scenario is that you are a US citizen so no, there is no VAT you can recover.

Your watch will be pre owned and coming from outside of Europe so VAT won’t have been charged on the price in any event

VAT is a sales tax applying to the total sale price for new items or the profit margin only for second hand items. Additionally VAT is only charged by retailers who are VAT registered. Registration is required when turnover exceeds a set amount. ADs in Europe will of course be VAT registered. Private sellers will generally not be.

HTH

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Devildog

You can only claim a VAT refund when leaving Europe if you are a non European citizen and the watch was purchased new in a European country

The only bit of that that applies to your scenario is that you are a US citizen so no, there is no VAT you can recover.

Your watch will be pre owned and coming from outside of Europe so VAT won’t have been charged on the price in any event

VAT is like sales tax

haha, it's not that easy.

he will have to pay tax to import that watch from outside the EU into the EU. he can not simply 'avoid' this because he's a US citizen. then there would be a loophole where people could do this, and then simply give the goods to EU residents, import tax free.

this is just like if i get a package shipped to me from my family in Switzerland or the US, in Germany. I have to pay import tax on those goods. it's usually about a flat 15-17.5% here in Germany and I'm assuming the same in Italy.

I think OP isn't even realizing this and this purchase is going to be WAY more expensive than he originally planned

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by dmash

haha, it's not that easy.

he will have to pay VAT to import that watch from outside the EU into Florence. he can not simply 'avoid' this because he's a US citizen. then there would be a loophole and people could do this, and then he simply had the goods to italian locals, import tax free. this is just like if i get a package shipped to me from my family in Switzerland or the US, in Germany. I have to pay VAT on those goods.

Fair point, however I had assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that the watch was not being declared as there was no mention of this in the original post. If it is then import duty would be payable.

OP. Are you declaring the watch and paying import duty?

Ps. The OP asked about VAT specifically. Import Tax is not VAT

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Devildog

Fair point, however I had assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that the watch was not being declared as there was no mention of this in the original post. If it is then import duty would be payable.

OP. Are you declaring the watch and paying import duty?

what do you mean declare the watch? if one receive ANY package from a country outside the EU, and the receipt/declaration papers are not clearly labeled on the outside, the package will be held at the local customs office and you must open the package in front of them and show the contents. and even if the papers are clearly labeled, you will still be responsible for the import tax, it's just usually easier and you can pay the local postman. You can't simply 'not' declare items, it just gets through the system and not pay for import tax on it......

Originally Posted by Devildog

Ps. The OP asked about VAT specifically. Import Tax is not VAT

and the OP is probably wholly unaware of this and/or confusing import tax with VAT. I guess it would probably be better for me to not mention this and he can have a 20% surprise waiting for him upon pickup

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by dmash

what do you mean declare the watch? if one receive ANY package from a country outside the EU, and the receipt/declaration papers are not clearly labeled on the outside, the package will be held at the local customs office and you must open the package in front of them and show the contents. You can't simply 'not' declare items, it just gets through the system and not pay for import tax on it......

You’re stating the position it Germany as fact for all of Europe and in this case for Italy. For all you know the watch may be being declared as a low value gift. Not every package is checked to that degree

I have routinely had packages from outside the EU labelled as low value items which have been delivered to me with no issues whatsoever.

[Devildog]

But yes. If it’s declared as a high value item he’s in for a surprise!

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Devildog

You’re stating the position it Germany as fact for all of Europe and in this case for Italy. For all you know the watch may be being declared as a low value gift. Not every package is checked to that degree

I have routinely had packages from outside the EU labelled as low value items which have been delivered to me with no issues whatsoever.

This is EU law.....or is Brexit already affecting your logic Every EU country, one must pay import tax, what are you on about insinuating this isn't true for them all?



That would be incredibly dumb to willingly commit that crime, while on vacation in another country IMO. Some clothes or a few items that equate to $200-$300, sure, no big deal, I may or may not have done the same. but if you try to game the system and commit tax fraud by having what I assume is a multi-thousand dollar watch get through the system undeclared..........good luck with that. I'm sure there would be absolutely no repercussions if they found out.





but anyways, this thread is to help OP. So OP, are you aware of this? and just to let you know, this will not be refunded at the airport like a new purchase inclusive of VAT.

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by dmash

This is EU law.....or is Brexit already affecting your logic Every EU country, one must pay import tax, what are you on about insinuating this isn't true for them all?



That would be incredibly dumb to willingly commit that crime, while on vacation in another country IMO. Some clothes or a few items that equate to $200-$300, sure, no big deal, I may or may not have done the same. but if you try to game the system and commit tax fraud by having what I assume is a multi-thousand dollar watch get through the system undeclared..........good luck with that. I'm sure there would be absolutely no repercussions if they found out.

Yes it’s EU law but it happens all the time.

I’m not condoning tax evasion but it is extremely common.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Devildog

Yes it’s EU law but it happens all the time.

I’m not condoning tax evasion but it is extremely common.

This, however, is where I will agree with you, that the countries are probably WAY different.

When I declare the value of my goods and include receipts......EVERY package I've received outside the EU.....will have been opened by customs, have little verification stickers inside, etc. So German is incredibly over the top on verifying all said claims. and if there's no declaration papers, I must go in and open the package. So essentially, in the close to 100 packages I've imported from outside the EU, I haven't had ONE come through that wasn't checked by customs in some way. UK might be different, but it's absolutely awful here. Not sure how stringent Italy might be.

Also, even if it's declared as a gift...if the value is over something like 17eur.....I ALSO have to have the receipts to prove the value, AND I still have to pay import tax on it. ridiculous. Oh, and if I can't supply adequate receipts....they will literally get online and go to ebay or other retailers and see what the item is selling for, and charge me that value. lol, I've watched them do it in front of my eyes.

[Jsol]

Thank you all! I have not had the watch shipped yet. I’m researching to avoid all the surprises many have mentioned. I can have it sent to the US but since I’m on business travel for a weeks, I wanted to get my hands on it sooner. It is from a private seller. If I declared it low value, I’m nervous that the high insurance would raise alarm. I don’t have a problem paying the import or VAT yet I read it is 22% in Italy. Ouch.

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by dmash

This, however, is where I will agree with you, that the countries are probably WAY different.

When I declare the value of my goods and include receipts......EVERY package I've received outside the EU.....will have been opened by customs, have little verification stickers inside, etc. So German is incredibly over the top on verifying all said claims. and if there's no declaration papers, I must go in and open the package. So essentially, in the close to 100 packages I've imported from outside the EU, I haven't had ONE come through that wasn't checked by customs in some way. UK might be different, but it's absolutely awful here. Not sure how stringent Italy might be.

Also, even if it's declared as a gift...if the value is over something like 17eur.....I ALSO have to have the receipts to prove the value, AND I still have to pay import tax on it. ridiculous. Oh, and if I can't supply adequate receipts....they will literally get online and go to ebay or other retailers and see what the item is selling for, and charge me that value. lol, I've watched them do it in front of my eyes.

The UK is no where near that stringent. Generally rely on what the customs declaration says

I doubt Italy is different (from what my Italian friends tell me).

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Devildog

The UK is no where near that stringent. Generally rely on what the customs declaration says

I doubt Italy is different (from what my Italian friends tell me).

Scott, I had some food seasonings from the US I wanted. My father sent them over. Gift marked at 30EUR. They wouldn't let me simply have them, nor simply pay 17,5% on the marked 30EUR. They wanted receipts, which I didn't have, so they went online, went to the manufacturer's page to verify the MSRP.......THEN HE TELLS THE GIRL TO CHECK EBAY TO MAKE SURE THESE ARENT SOME SPECIAL SEASONINGS THAT PEOPLE ARE PAYING ABOVE MSRP FOR, AS I NEED TO PAY THE APPROPRIATE MARKET VALUE.

Saying I was shocked, is a gross understatement. Yes, I'm importing those rare kitchen seasonings, that have Rolex-esque waitlists or something That's one of the things that does indeed irk me here, is the over the top 'by the book' mentality at times.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Jsol

Thank you all! I have not had the watch shipped yet. I’m researching to avoid all the surprises many have mentioned. I can have it sent to the US but since I’m on business travel for a weeks, I wanted to get my hands on it sooner. It is from a private seller. If I declared it low value, I’m nervous that the high insurance would raise alarm. I don’t have a problem paying the import or VAT yet I read it is 22% in Italy. Ouch.

The insurance, if something were to happen, would more than likely be null and void as well. You can't claim on official import documentation that an item costs say $200, then try to insure it for $5000. The insurance provider could easily obtain this paperwork and your claim would not be paid out for anything above the declared value. Just some more food for thought. A lot of people like to overlook this tiny detail when declaring expensive items for less than actual worth, can be a slippery slope. This is actually, the major reason why sellers will not mark items below their actual worth on customs documentation. It's not even because of the legal reasoning....it's because they might have issues with an insurance claim getting paid out.

[bayerische]

Used items RARELY have VAT.

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by Devildog

You can only claim a VAT refund when leaving Europe if you are a non European citizen and the watch was purchased new in a European country

Not entirely correct. You can claim VAT just fine as a EU citizen, but you have to proof you live outside the EU.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by bayerische

Not entirely correct. You can claim VAT just fine as a EU citizen, but you have to proof you live outside the EU.

Yup. and the inverse also applies, where you can't claim VAT if you are *not* a EU citizen, but currently residing in EU.

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by dmash

Yup. and the inverse also applies, where you can't claim VAT if you are *not* a EU citizen, but currently residing in EU.

Yes of course.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Jsol

Thank you all! I have not had the watch shipped yet. I’m researching to avoid all the surprises many have mentioned. I can have it sent to the US but since I’m on business travel for a weeks, I wanted to get my hands on it sooner. It is from a private seller. If I declared it low value, I’m nervous that the high insurance would raise alarm. I don’t have a problem paying the import or VAT yet I read it is 22% in Italy. Ouch.

Just to be clear. Are you saying you just want the watch to meet you enroute while you are travelling? Basically, the watch will meet you in Italy and then you'll leave with it a week later?

Seems like a lot of hassle to have it in hand a few days early, unless you plan to flip it while you're there.

[Jsol]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Just to be clear. Are you saying you just want the watch to meet you enroute while you are travelling? Basically, the watch will meet you in Italy and then you'll leave with it a week later?



Seems like a lot of hassle to have it in hand a few days early, unless you plan to flip it while you're there.

I’m in the EU for several weeks so just excited. No plans to flip.

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by bayerische

Not entirely correct. You can claim VAT just fine as a EU citizen, but you have to proof you live outside the EU.

Agreed. Was trying to keep it simple for the OP until my friend appeared on the thread


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[Devildog]

Originally Posted by dmash

Scott, I had some food seasonings from the US I wanted. My father sent them over. Gift marked at 30EUR. They wouldn't let me simply have them, nor simply pay 17,5% on the marked 30EUR. They wanted receipts, which I didn't have, so they went online, went to the manufacturer's page to verify the MSRP.......THEN HE TELLS THE GIRL TO CHECK EBAY TO MAKE SURE THESE ARENT SOME SPECIAL SEASONINGS THAT PEOPLE ARE PAYING ABOVE MSRP FOR, AS I NEED TO PAY THE APPROPRIATE MARKET VALUE.

Saying I was shocked, is a gross understatement. Yes, I'm importing those rare kitchen seasonings, that have Rolex-esque waitlists or something That's one of the things that does indeed irk me here, is the over the top 'by the book' mentality at times.

Man. That’s crazy. Must be a German thing


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[gettocard]

Here's my take from an italian. Grab that watch and re enter the USA without mentioning a single crap or you may be in for a surprise. Keep the money for yourself FFS,do it the italian way. As we say here in Italy : do not wake up a sleeping dog.

[Jsol]

Ok so thank you again everyone. So the watch is used and would be sent from a private seller. So I should not expect VAT. So what I’m understanding is that the import tax can still be very high even though I’m not an EU citizen. Did I miss anything?

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by Jsol

Ok so thank you again everyone. So the watch is used and would be sent from a private seller. So I should not expect VAT. So what I’m understanding is that the import tax can still be very high even though I’m not an EU citizen. Did I miss anything?

No import tax between EU member states.

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by Jsol

Ok so thank you again everyone. So the watch is used and would be sent from a private seller. So I should not expect VAT. So what I’m understanding is that the import tax can still be very high even though I’m not an EU citizen. Did I miss anything?

The cost of importing stuff into the EU is usually customs charges(if any), custom handling fee and then VAT on top of everything. It does not matter what you are importing, used, new, whatever, VAT is slapped on top of the price including shipping. This is the import tax.

Note that all countries have ways of doing temporary imports. If you intend to only import it temporary this would be a possibility. Sometimes you pay the VAT and then get it back when leaving the country, sometimes you don't have to. This is basically what you do when traveling with expensive stuff.

I do not have any experience with Italy in this regard. It varies a lot in how easy this is. Some countries will need months in processing heaps of paperwork, some countries just need a prefilled form that you show when entering/leaving that you can slap on the package.

If you have a business, you usually have an ATA Carnet with your goods, this is a standard way of doing temporary imports, this is not an option here from what you have told us.

Personally I would probably talk to the local shipping company which would receive the package and ask if they know how to do a temporary import.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by bayerische

No import tax between EU member states.

He clearly stated this is located outside the EU in the very first post...

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by Jsol

Ok so thank you again everyone. So the watch is used and would be sent from a private seller. So I should not expect VAT. So what I’m understanding is that the import tax can still be very high even though I’m not an EU citizen. Did I miss anything?

All items purchased outside the US will need to be declared upon re-entry on for 6059b.

https://www.cbp.gov/travel/internati...toms-duty-info

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by beshannon

All items purchased outside the US will need to be declared upon re-entry on for 6059b.

https://www.cbp.gov/travel/internati...toms-duty-info

It sounds like he bought it in the US and wants it to meet him in Italy. The US import duty doesn't apply, but he'll get hammered in Italy as a penalty for not waiting to get home to have it.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

It sounds like he bought it in the US and wants it to meet him in Italy. The US import duty doesn't apply, but he'll get hammered in Italy as a penalty for not waiting to get home to have it.

Possibly as the original post is not clear.

In any event that may be tough to explain without paperwork to show point of sale and the reason for bringing it into the US.