Need some help 1675 Root Beer

[Swaye]

Found a really nice 1675 Root Beer at my AD. They have a stunning 1675 Root Beer that they have done some work on - replaced crystal and did some Crown work. They have also told me it is a 3.4 M serial, which I think makes it a 73-74 roughly.

Additionally, they told me it appears to have a Rolex replaced bezel and dial (they called the dial a T SWISS T I believe), and likely has had hands replaced as well. It is a nipple dial, and looks almost dark copper. Simply stunning. They also state (and the appearance to me confirms) that they believe the dial and bezel were replaced quite awhile ago, as they look fantastic, but do have just a bit of age.

Biggest thing is it is on a TT Oyster bracelet with plenty of stretch. Great shape, but it is old. Their best guess (and they admitted it was a guess) is that it was probably overhauled by Rolex many years ago, replacing the dial, hands (likely), and the bezel. Possibly also got the Oyster bracelet then. But, and here is the big but, they said it is also very possible that the original AD swapped out a TT Jubilee for a TT Oyster at point of sale (said it happened a lot back in the 70s), so it is impossible to say for sure what bracelet this might have come with, or if this one is even possibly original.

It also has the box, papers, manuals and original bill of sale from 1976 (which seemed odd to me because it appears to be a 73-74 model).

At any rate, I will include a picture in the hopes that one of our experts here can give me some guidance on how to approach this. They are asking 14K, which seems like a lot to me, for a TT, but of course they maintain it is well priced because full set Rolexes in this condition from the mid-70s are hard to find, and that the dial, hands and bezel are all an older quality Rolex overhaul. And they swapped the crystal, but as an AD with service department that is not a huge value hit. I know a decent bit about modern Rolexes, but go to 4 digit stuff and I am a blank. I love the watch, and 73 is my birth year, which seems silly but somehow draws me to the watch even more.

I am not asking for anyone to tell me if I should or should not buy the watch, I just want to know if what they are saying seems accurate, or if this all seems off. I really trust the guy who I am working with, but I am just so out of my element on this old stuff I need a hand. It looks good and feels right to me, but because I am no expert I thought I should ask! Thanks in advance for any advice!

Questions for the experts:

1) Is it unusual to have a watch serialized for 1973 that first sold in 1976?

2) The watch did not look overpolished to me, but from the picture does it seem okay to you?

3) Is it relatively rare to get a full set from the mid-70's? I see these watches going for 10-12K other places (it's kind of all over the map actually - saw one for 21K with no box/papers in roughly the same shape - perhaps it is all original?), but in rougher shape and with no box/papers. Does it really add a large premium like this?

4) Do the dial, hands and bezel all seem correct for the year/model, and does it make sense or look right to say it is probably an old Rolex overhaul?

5) Oyster bracelet? Normal to have them swapped at purchase? Normal to have them swapped during an overhaul or during their life? Does it hurt the value any?

Anything else I might be missing that you think a neophyte vintage Rolex guy should know I'd appreciate hearing. I just do not want to blunder hard on my first vintage Rolex if i decide to pursue it. Thanks so much.

[TimeToGo]

Questions:

1) It is very common for this to happen.

2) The one picture is not the best. It looks fine.

3) Yes, provenance and accessories does add value to waches. If you are seeing them for 10-12, get one of those... They are not common in the market place with papers. The owner or dealer establishes the prices. I agree with you, some are ridiculously priced.

4) Yes, they seem correct. Does it glow when exposed to light? I doubt it. No ideal if anything was replaced, looks correct.

5) It was normal to buy these watches without bracelets and down the line buy one. A person can buy replace jubilee or oyster bracelet to their taste... Does it hurt value, no, I think it is a premium, if in good shape.

Anything else - See if the dealer will open the case back to see if it has a year date stamped, also to see if it has any corrosion or other issues, just for your information.

Good Luck!

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

Questions:

1) It is very common for this to happen.

2) The one picture is not the best. It looks fine.

3) Yes, provenance and accessories does add value to waches. If you are seeing them for 10-12, get one of those... They are not common in the market place with papers. The owner or dealer establishes the prices. I agree with you, some are ridiculously priced.

4) Yes, they seem correct. Does it glow when exposed to light? I doubt it. No ideal if anything was replaced, looks correct.

5) It was normal to buy these watches without bracelets and down the line buy one. A person can buy replace jubilee or oyster bracelet to their taste... Does it hurt value, no, I think it is a premium, if in good shape.

Anything else - See if the dealer will open the case back to see if it has a year date stamped, also to see if it has any corrosion or other issues, just for your information.

Good Luck!

Thanks a ton for the answers. Really appreciate it. I never even thought to check the lume....haha, and there I show again I am not sure what I should be thinking about with a vintage watch. I just want to make sure all the parts looked correct, and the numbers made sense and it is what it appears to be.

To be clear, the ones I have seen for 10-12K are not with papers, and so this one at around 14K with all manuals, papers and the box I figured was a premium, was just unsure if it was 2 grand worth of premium.

Also just felt odd about the replacement parts, though to be sure it seems like a bunch of these older watches would have had service parts added over the years. I'm not trying to make an investment with this, as I know this isn't some super rare super in demand reference, just wanted to make sure I didn't get over my head from the jump without knowing some basics.

Good advice to open the case.

[Richard Carver]

Rolex weren't always semi-religious objects that must never be touched. That watch got whatever parts it needed over the years, it looks fine. 99.99% of vintage Rolex have had parts replaced, no one cared back in the day, they just kept them running.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Rolex weren't always semi-religious objects that must never be touched. That watch got whatever parts it needed over the years, it looks fine. 99.99% of vintage Rolex have had parts replaced, no one cared back in the day, they just kept them running.

Thanks. That was my assumption, I just didn't want to assume too much only to find out 5 years from now I should have paid 8 grand because the service dial and bezel completely tanked it and I had no idea what I was doing. Been doing some more searching and have found a thread or two on here over the years specifically addressing the Oyster vs. Jubilee and it appears (?) that these GMTs got both depending on the AD and customer desires.

Much respect to the true collectors among us who know all this stuff and can navigate this minefield. I can't imagine the nuances that go into the really high end Subs and such.

Anyway, I am still researching trying to gain as much knowledge as I can on this watch. I am not a TT guy usually, but the Bluesy and this one really speak to me.

[springer]

The dial appears to be original and not a service replacement.

The bezel insert is definitely a later service replacement.

[Richard Carver]

They are great watches. I've had this black TT 1675 since 2001, still one of my favorites.



I understand your desire to learn all you can, not only is it prudent, it's fun. :)

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by springer

The dial appears to be original and not a service replacement.

The bezel insert is definitely a later service replacement.

Excellent. Appreciate the knowledge! Funny that folks here know more than ADs!

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

They are great watches. I've had this black TT 1675 since 2001, still one of my favorites.



I understand your desire to learn all you can, not only is it prudent, it's fun. :)

It is fun. In my travels trying to learn about this watch I stumbled into all kinds of cool info on 16713 GMTs with Serti dials. Now those are some cool looking Rolexes (to me)! I had no idea Rolex put gems into a small number of Subs and GMTs over the years with cool champagne and slate dials. Very cool to take a walk outside of Hulks and Batmans and Pepsis and see all that Rolex has made over the decades.

[Dan S]

Two of these recently sold on eBay for $8k - $8.5k, without papers but original parts and reasonable condition. I'm not sure I would pay $5k+ for the box and papers. Just my subjective opinion about price. At this point I'm more likely to be a seller than I buyer, so I wish they were more desirable, but if I were going to sell mine, I'd be thrilled to get $9k (without papers).

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Two of these recently sold on eBay for $8k - $8.5k, without papers but original parts and reasonable condition. I'm not sure I would pay $5k+ for the box and papers. Just my subjective opinion about price. At this point I'm more likely to be a seller than I buyer, so I wish they were more desirable, but if I were going to sell mine, I'd be thrilled to get $9k (without papers).

I am super glad you told me that. Yeah, people are asking 10-12K at a couple places, but asking and selling are two different things. If they are selling for 9K, then 5K is a bunch to pay for a box. I love the watch, but yeah...

[irongatsby]

This is good to know. I have a Root Beer that my dad gave me, and the serial indicates 1979 production. The papers however, shows he bought it in Paris in 1985.

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

Questions:

1) It is very common for this to happen.